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tk59
05-28-2011, 04:44 PM
So a while back, Rockbox challenged me to do the Salty tomato piercing test with a Forschner. I didn't have one on hand so I tried it with a Henckels Pro S and it passed okay. It didn't make it through too many times before squishing the tomato a little. Anyway, I recently had a sharpening pow-wow asked to borrow a Forschner someone brought. Today, I spent 10 min going from 1k Gesshin to 5k Gesshin to 8k SS to 0.25 micron diamond on Dave's strop. I wasn't expecting anything 'cause I really didn't try very hard at this point but the edge felt "scary" so I tested it. To my amazement, it worked really, really well. Anybody else find that Forschner steel outperforms Henckels or other well regarded brands? I'm not talking about blade geometry or anything like that; just the steel.

BTW, I spent a few minutes on a Heiji semistainless, too. Damn, that thing likes to get sharp! Love that steel...

Lefty
05-28-2011, 05:08 PM
Funny you bring this up today. I just sharpened 3 knives today, but only from a good solid 1k bevel from a few weeks ago. I used a suita 6-8k (thanks again Rick!), and I literally marveled at the insane sharpness I achieved on both my Misono and my ICEL petty. However, try as I might, my Henckels chef knife just couldn't get anywhere close to as sharp as the other two.
The Misono is carbon, so we all know how sharp carbon seems to like to get, but the ICEL uses the same steel as Henckels. I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong with the Henckels, and I even went at it again...nothing. It's sharp, but just nowhere even close to the other two. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is kind of baffled by this.
Meh, I guess I'll just accept it as one of "those things", until the smart people here give me a good enough reason ;)

Tristan
05-28-2011, 08:37 PM
Every single time I sharpen, I also sharpen up an old victorinox knife I picked up way back when on a student budget. I can't get it as sharp as the J-steel knives no matter how much I try or my form for the day. I've just accepted that it is such as it is.

tk59
05-28-2011, 09:07 PM
That's interesting. Forschner is made by Victorinox. That reminds me. I have an old stainless Sabatier that my dad got when he was in college. I've never sharpened that one past 1k. I'll have to check that out.

NO ChoP!
05-29-2011, 02:23 AM
Before I got in deep with JKnives, and I only splurged on Mac's, I would fill in the blanks (filet, bread, slicer, etc...) with Forschner. To this day, I have yet to replace my 14" cimiter for fish; indispensable!

rockbox
05-29-2011, 02:26 AM
My theory is that its easier to automate the heat treat process with a stamped blade. They can get the steel sheets already heat treated. All they have to do is stamp it, put a handle on it and sharpen it.

tk59
05-29-2011, 12:06 PM
That seems reasonable to me.

Adamm
05-29-2011, 12:46 PM
Forchners are great knives for the money, i recomend them to anyone not looking to spend the money for entry level Japanese knives. I personally have a bonder and had a cimeter which i wish i didnt sell. There will always be great knives for the money and can easily fill the roll for beater knives, and boning knives where japanese knives dont have knives at that price to do the same quality.

bieniek
05-29-2011, 03:16 PM
I have Victorinox chefs 24cm and henckels four star 20cm.
I would say they are in the same range of mediocre sharpness, but lately ive been checking how much can Victorinox take, after giving up on Henckels - this one is used at home only.
after giving Victor brand new edge it would last for 60k of salmon. With using of steel an with effort at the end. After its useless. So maybe it is sharp, but edge retention sucks badly as for me. Thats why i dont bother getting more than 6k edge out of it and strop on paper only

tk59
05-29-2011, 05:41 PM
Edge retention is definitely poor compared to typical Japanese blades but is it worse than a Henckels or Wusthof or (fill in the blank)?

MadMel
05-30-2011, 12:06 AM
I have a Henkels 5 star chefs and a Victorinox chefs. The henkels seem to hold the edge slightly better then the victorinox, at least to me. I have to steel the victorinox more while using it compared to my henkels. Both have 6k edges and stropped on newspaper.

Jameson
05-30-2011, 01:30 AM
I have a Henkels 5 star chefs and a Victorinox chefs. The henkels seem to hold the edge slightly better then the victorinox, at least to me. I have to steel the victorinox more while using it compared to my henkels. Both have 6k edges and stropped on newspaper.

The henckels made in germany (not the international line) and of course the japanese lines, all hold edges extremely well. The german ones (my experience is with international (spain), 5 star, and proS) that have ice hardening treatment, that henckels has a name for, really do take and hold a nice edge. My parers and slicers are daily use and are kep hair popping sharp with steeling and then stropping for weeks before stones...

tk59
05-30-2011, 01:35 AM
Weeks?! Holy moly! Wait, are you a pro or home cook?

MadMel
05-30-2011, 02:10 AM
Weeks?! Holy moly! Wait, are you a pro or home cook?

Yeah. The most I can get is 3-5 days of hard mise en place before steeling does nothing much to it.

And the 5 star is ice hardened too.

Jameson
05-30-2011, 03:47 AM
home, I am not using the things for more than once a day for light use. My point is they are not poor choices, though they offer some advantages over the harder japanese steels too, chipping being one, even accidental chips from it laying around and something knocking into it (coffee mug for 1)...

JC

tk59
05-30-2011, 09:55 AM
Thanks guys. I definitely agree, JC. Another advantage is generally better stain resistance.

bieniek
05-30-2011, 05:55 PM
Edge retention is definitely poor compared to typical Japanese blades but is it worse than a Henckels or Wusthof or (fill in the blank)?

(Kramer)? :lol2:

Theres only one brand comes in my mind, stainless Sabatier. Its worst crap Ive used, the knife is sharp, you can get it to the point where it shaves, but few slices of roast and its soft.
Generaly all of those knives are too thick, and too soft.
Victorinox will keep sharpness after one day of work, but the edge will reflex light in way too many spots.

Is the Henckels better? For me no, just the feeling it provides when cutting makes me uncomfortable:eek2:, maybe because of the size?

I think its time to attempt thinning old Vick down :scared1:

Eamon Burke
05-30-2011, 10:29 PM
I love Vic steel, just love the way it responds. They do best with a good convex edge, IME, and if my hands would have their say, its the same steel as their fantastic pocket knives.