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Pdksays
08-11-2013, 04:30 PM
So this might seem like a stupid question but a buddy of mine and I were talking about this subject recently and neither of us could come up with an answer. Why when I purchase a knew knife does the bevel seem so hard to see, for example the konosuke hh 240 gyuto my buddy recently picked up has an almost invisible bevel, as if the factory sharpeners were using an extremely acute angle. We both agree that when we sharpen knew knives our bevels become very distinct and identifiable but a factory bevel is often nearly invisible. I'm sorry I don't have any pictures to post of what I'm talking about but I thought someone a bit more knowledgable than me might be able to unravel this question.

tripleq
08-11-2013, 04:37 PM
Actually sounds the angle you and your friend are putting on the knives is more acute than the factory bevel. That's why you can see it. Your sharpening angle is lower so you are cutting a larger primary bevel (generally used to describe the cutting edge in knifespeak) onto the knife.

Pdksays
08-11-2013, 06:43 PM
Oh wow typo, meant obtuse, I feel dumb. Thank you though, I couldn't imagine I have a more acute angle than a knife maker but I suppose I do. Should I bring my angle up or leave it as is?

Zwiefel
08-11-2013, 06:45 PM
Unlike most other knife makers, jKnife makers don't put a "complete" edge on new knives. They assume that this will either be a service at the store you buy it from, or that you know how to put on the edge you want yourself.

JBroida
08-11-2013, 06:51 PM
thats not whats happening here. This is because the OOTB edge is very thin, so the bevels look small. As you move up into thicker sections of the blade, the bevel will grow in size.

tripleq
08-11-2013, 07:04 PM
Oh wow typo, meant obtuse, I feel dumb. Thank you though, I couldn't imagine I have a more acute angle than a knife maker but I suppose I do. Should I bring my angle up or leave it as is?

You'll find that most Japanese knives have overall bevel that is more obtuse than the steel can potentially handle out of the box. So yes, your angle can be and likely is more acute than the one the maker put on it. If you have watched good sharpening videos and followed the basic angles you see in the videos that is most probably the case. How acute you can or should go depends on the steel, overall geometry of your knife and how and what you cut. There isn't really any set rule. It kind of depends on what works for you. I sharpen most of my knives with an overall bevel of about 20 degrees. Some are 40 and some are 10.

tripleq
08-11-2013, 07:55 PM
thats not whats happening here. This is because the OOTB edge is very thin, so the bevels look small. As you move up into thicker sections of the blade, the bevel will grow in size.

I'm not sure that is the case Jon. If my understanding is correct the OP is talking about receiving a new knife, not being able to recognize the primary bevel but seeing it distinctly with the first sharpening. I suppose it is possible he is grinding away a ton of metal on the first sharpening but that aside I would think that if the primary bevel becomes much more distinct on the first sharpening because he is lowering his angle of approach steeper than the factory. Of course without thinning with subsequent sharpenings what you say is perfectly valid but on the first sharpening I would say it is angle of approach...or improper technique.

JBroida
08-11-2013, 08:00 PM
yeah... thats exactly what i'm talking about. New knives (like the konouske the OP is referring to) suffer exactly this problem. The maker does put an initial edge on the knife (and in that case its about 10-15 degrees per side), but because the edge is very thin, the bevels look to be non-existent. Even with the first sharpening this happens. I see it all of the time. In the case of the OP, it could have also easily been a more acute angle, but even if it was the exact same angle, he would have noticed the same thing.