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m.o.t
08-14-2013, 12:28 PM
Hi, a very good afternoon to 1 & all.

I am a very eager home cook & starting cook lots more these days. I am also in now in a position the spend on some decent knives BUT I have just spent all morning reviewing, re reviewing & going over & over so many sites my head is numb. I am looking for a cracking set of knives to start me off. Looking for a 3 knives Petty, Gyuto & a Santoku (small, medium & large ) get me sounds like I know something. UNsure wether to go German or Japanese, Any way money is really no option but as I am just a home cook I really don't want to over spend for the sake of it.
Would any of you nice people be able to recommend some cutters for me. I have been using 4 Sabatiers for the last 10 years, bought as a student for £50, served me well but now my cash flow is better want to buy something nice & to last me.
Thanx in anticipation,
Rgds,
JH

Benuser
08-14-2013, 12:47 PM
Welcome! Would you mind filling in the questionnaire, so we might help you better.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/12791-The-quot-Which-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2

m.o.t
08-14-2013, 01:00 PM
LOCATION
What country are you in? WALES



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? SET OF

Are you right or left handed? RIGHT

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? DON'T MIND

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? SMALL MEDIUM LARGE

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) ?

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? DON'T HAVE 1



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? HOMECOOK

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) ALL THE ABOVE

What knife, if any, are you replacing? SABATIERS

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) JUST GRABIT

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) DEPENDS ON WHAT I AM PREPARING, NEEDS TO COVER ALL TYPES.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) TO BE ABLE TO HELP ME PREPARE FOOD EFFICIENTLY

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? NOPE

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? NO IDEA

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? YES

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? LAST AS LONG AS POSS BETWEEN SHARPENING



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) WOOD & SYNTHETIC

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) NOPE

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) MAYBE

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) MAYBE



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

m.o.t
08-14-2013, 01:04 PM
oops hi Benuser & thanx

Benuser
08-14-2013, 01:26 PM
A few remarks, if you don't mind. Both a gyuto and a santoku perform essentially the same tasks. The santoku is flatter and misses the arrow tip that characterizes the gyuto. See a 190mm santoku as a 240 gyuto with the tip being removed. Both can perform almost all tasks. For fine tip work though the gyuto is superior, but a good petty does the same even better.
So basically one needs a 240/190mm gyuto/santoku and a 150mm petty.
Japanese knives are made from harder steel than their Western counterparts. This allows them to have a much finer edge. But they will dull as every other knife. Before buying new knives I believe you should consider how to maintain them.
Here's a link to excerpts from Chad Ward's An Edge in the Kitchen.

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

m.o.t
08-14-2013, 01:46 PM
Cool thanx, will have a read cheers again

bikehunter
08-14-2013, 01:51 PM
Welcome to the forum.

Dave Martell
08-14-2013, 02:32 PM
Welcome JH

m.o.t
08-14-2013, 02:32 PM
That Lansky looks aan amzing piece of kit, but I would like to maintain the knives using a stone, I think, maybe.
Seems more organic / hands on so to say, althought the Lansky is not out of my reach.
I am to my untrained mind, so far leaning towards these http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html but very open minded.

m.o.t
08-14-2013, 02:33 PM
Bikehunter / Dave, hi

RobinW
08-14-2013, 04:33 PM
Hmmm, Wales.
Id say call in to Will and go from there:
http://www.catchesidecutlery.com/

welcome by the way!

Midsummer
08-14-2013, 10:57 PM
If I may echo a sentiment; that is learning to sharpen your knives will set you free :). The "sharpeners" or kits are good in that they teach you the importance of the constant angle when sharpening. There is a lot to learn on this site.

sachem allison
08-14-2013, 11:08 PM
welcome!

mhlee
08-15-2013, 01:04 AM
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) ALL THE ABOVE


If you are going to use these knives to actually break through poultry bones, and may not sharpen these knives on your own, you are going to need purchase knives that are durable. I definitely think that certain higher end knives are not going to be appropriate.

daddy yo yo
08-15-2013, 04:15 AM
Hmmm, Wales.
Id say call in to Will and go from there:
http://www.catchesidecutlery.com/maybe that is a good option. btw, hereford is quite a nice place...

Timthebeaver
08-15-2013, 04:30 AM
Welcome to the forum, and the small Wales-based forumites club!

Catcheside a no-brainer if you have the budget. If you are looking at Japanese knives, be aware that many British e-tailers are total rip-off merchants. I can tell you from experience that JCK ship from Seki to Cardiff in 3/4 days, from experience. FWIW, I think that the Hiromoto AS (which was incredibly in-vogue at one point, as a relatively inexpensive Aogami Super knife) has mediocre geometry when it leaves the factory, so would avoid them personally. In this price bracket I would look (somewhat predictably) at the JCK Carbonext.

Dusty
08-15-2013, 09:53 AM
I still like the hiro AS, it's more fun to sharpen than the carbonext, the profile on the gyuto is a touch flatter which I like and the contrast at the cladding line looks badass.

As far as the geometry goes, i think that the 210 is just fine and the 240 is pretty good. The handles are a touch nicer than the CN, and the kanji looks better.

stevenStefano
08-15-2013, 09:59 AM
Yes as timthebeaver says, I'd look at buying from JCK pretty much, you'll save a fortune in shipping costs and Import Fees and all that. I have a Carbonext and I like it a lot

eaglerock
08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
yes carbonex is a very good knife :)

m.o.t
08-16-2013, 04:15 AM
Thanx all :hungry: opinions much appriciated. As alreday stated I am not looking to become a knifer as a hobby, just looking for some really quality experienced views / comments to help me make a rational decission, which so far I have. :doublethumbsup:

GConcept999
08-19-2013, 12:04 AM
I agree with what Benuser said. Many people would agree that a gyuto performs many of the tasks of a santoku and more, so both a gyuto and a santoku may be redundant. Get a gyuto in 240mm or 210mm, as your large knife, a 150mm petty as your "medium", and a cheap ~$5 parer as your "small." For breaking bones, get a cleaver, butcher's knife, cimeter, bone/lobster cracked knife, or a used heavy duty chef's knife.

As Justin had mentioned in your intro thread, Sabatiers are fine knives (are they carbon or stainless-steel, btw?). You may consider keeping them as your main knives and improve upon them by having sharpening equipment, like a combination sharpening stone, and a fine ceramic hone rod/"sharpening steel" Or another option is a sharpening rig, like a Edge Pro. If the Sabatiers need repair or reprofiling, send them off to a professional.

If you are set on new knives, (Justin had also mentioned this) Masamotos have a knife profile shape very similar to the classic Sabatier profile, so you would be used to them. They are definitely one of the top Japanese brands, and come in many flavors and combinations; stainless steel, carbon, western handles, or Japanese handles. Though they will be more expensive for their quality and fit & finish.

As with any knives, expensive, quality or cheap knives; you need a way to maintain and sharpen them. The cheapest, most efficient, and recommended would be a free-hand with a sharpening stone. For $50-$60, you can get started on decent combination stone, and you can easily learn from videos online.

You need to give a budget for the community to give a reasonable recommendations. My recommendations from what I've heard, keep the Sabatiers and a method to maintain and sharpen them. OR Masamoto VG or Korin's Togiharu G-1 Molybdenum gyuto in 240mm (I've heard the Togiharu essentially the same knife as Masamoto, but rebranded) (or in 210mm if you don't have the cutting space). I don't have recommendations for petty.