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Lefty
08-28-2013, 09:13 AM
I'm opening up a thread that I hope will be often posted in, by all of us, and equally important - free flowing. Basically, I'd like for it to become a spot where we can discuss the nuances that we love/hate, our preferences in size, whether or not a bolster makes a knife feel more impressive...really anything, without having to start a new thread every time. It could be a terrible idea, but what the hell. I'm just going to post what I'm thinking and then we can discuss it. Hopefully this works. :D

First matter of business: Gyuto Length

As a home cook, who also cooks as part of my career, I often have wondered if my preference in gyutos was a strange one. I've always loved 210s, and while I had a spell of pure 240 buying, I'm now back on my "smaller is nicer" train. I blame two knives for this: my Harner "mini-gyuto", as I now call it, and an Itinomonn 210 Nashiji KU gyuto that I've been using quite a bit of late. These knives are agile, thin BTE, and just feel damn good in hand. I still love my 240s, and have one coming, but length seems to be good for two things in my mind; It's important for cutting through huge items, and occasionally for banging out large quantities (though, in my mind, that's debatable...so let's say what we think here).

Are my preferences a direct result of the number of people I cook for? Quite probably - not possibly, yes. But if the average 240 felt as easy in my hand as a 210, or even 180, then I'd just grab one of them. Right now, I'm leaning towards shorter knives. Next week...well, who knows. I'm always playing around and that's 90% of the fun of this hobby/obsession we share, isn't it? Finding what knife makes you feel good in the current moment. There's really no other way to explain having ten gyutos than to say, "I just like using a knife that makes cooking fun; Today it's my Carter, tomorrow it might be my Rodrigue".

Mucho Bocho
08-28-2013, 09:44 AM
Lefty, Good idea about this thread. I like you're last statement "knives:Gyutos that are fun to use". Some of you may know from my posts, I'm a very inquisitive home cook and have six gyutos ranging from Yusuke (thick/thin), Konosuke, Kramer (WS Meiji) and my white #2 Special Thin Yusuke has to be one of the most fun knives to use. Light, sharp and thin as a razor and hs great balance. Regarding size, for me the length of the Gyuto is food appropriate. Large items, larger knives, smaller, smaller knife. Just my 2 cents

Timthebeaver
08-28-2013, 09:58 AM
I like my Sugimoto gyuto very much, 210mm (195mm edge), very asymmetric, easy to sharpen to a wicked edge and light as a feather. Oh, and $75. When I want a bigger knife I find myself reaching for my Chuka more than the 240mm these days. It feels like an inevitable slide towards the dark side.

ejd53
08-28-2013, 10:08 AM
I have to admit that while the bigger knives have their advantages (atm, my 225 Carter is a lot of fun), one of my favorites has got to be Will Catchside's 200mm "Red Shark" gyuto. Very quick and nimble, but not as light as some others. I personally like the more substantial feel of it, although as a home cook, I don't have to deal with several hundred pounds of protein in a day.

berko
08-28-2013, 10:09 AM
for me, the right gyuto length depends on what quantities i want to produce. at home, when cutting food for two people ill take a 210mm. at work, when cutting food for 150 people, a 240mm feels to short.

Matus
08-28-2013, 10:24 AM
I am new in the field of 'proper' kitchen knives, but have experience with 270 suji and 210 gyuto. The suji felt a bit too long in, my hand (the other problem was that the blade had very little curve for me - what is normal with suji after all, but I did not realize that when buying). The 210 feels to be the right length for all those veggie tasks, but when used to slice meat 240 would probably feel better. Maybe even 180 would suffice for those non-meat tasks, but I find the 210 comfortable and do not want to end up with 2 gyutos. That would only change if I would have to slice meat more often (my Tanaka R2 has beautiful '3D' damascus caldding which however seems to cause more drag with meats) then I would go directly for some think light carbon 270 gyuto.

Dusty
08-28-2013, 10:25 AM
The two gyutos on my board at home at the moment are a yo-210 and a wa-270. This is strange to say, but realistically, I reach for the 210 more, but enjoy using the 270 more. The 210 cuts more elegantly at the moment, the 270 feels more assertive. I've intentionally left out the details of the knives, but both are great.

At work I have a 240 and a 270 and I interchange freely. If a knife is a waif, I like a bit of extra length, if it has some heft a 240 is great in a pro environment.

Its also important to consider the difference in potential profile between different lengths of knife. I like a knife with a larger flat sweet spot, that is more common on a longer knife.

ChuckTheButcher
08-28-2013, 11:26 AM
I tend to go for 240's but feel comfortable using 210 up to 270. Once you get into the 300's I find them unwieldy. One size I really like but is hard to find is 255.

WildBoar
08-28-2013, 11:52 AM
240 - 255 gyutos mainly for me (all home use). I never use the 210 gyuto, but I like a 210 suji for some tasks (excellent tomato slayer), and always find uses for 150-180 pettys. Have a couple gyutos in the 270 range, but they are not in the regular rotation. Cutting board size dictates maximum gyuto length at times; the wife's board is a little small for anything beyond 240, but mine is big enough for a 270 gyuto or 300 suji.

Mrmnms
08-28-2013, 02:32 PM
When I worked/lived in a commercial kitchen, I preferred big knives 10 to 12 inches for prep. I had almost unlimited work space They were beasts in comparison to the knives we discuss here. At home now , with any number of kids insisting on hanging around me while I prep, or grown ups with wine glasses looking over my shoulder, I go for knives 210 and under for most work on my counter. In an empty kitchen and quiet house (ha) I'll pull out a 240 just for the pleasure.

Don Nguyen
08-28-2013, 05:31 PM
One thing that always bugs me is square choils. It's nice and all if it's been deburred and/or eased, but if the shape in general is square, it just doesn't work for me.

ejd53
08-28-2013, 05:33 PM
Interesting that you should mention that size. My Bill Burke is 253 mm and it is surprisingly nimble for it's size.

Salty dog
08-28-2013, 08:17 PM
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.

CrisAnderson27
08-28-2013, 08:27 PM
In for the discussion!

Awesome topic Tom!

Lefty
08-28-2013, 08:44 PM
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....

apicius9
08-28-2013, 09:31 PM
Wait wait, can I still talk about length? My first two chef's knives were from Henckels and I always liked the 230 and only used the 260 for heavy tasks like wedging through a cabbage etc. Then I tried guytos and funayukis in approx. 150, 165, 180, 195, 210, 225, 240, 270, and 300. 300 was much too much for me as a home cook, and the 270 I kept is a Watanabe which is also a pretty massive knife that gets very little workout. But I just like Watanabe knives, so it stays regardless of use. I also have a very little used Hiro AS 270, but I set that aside in case I ever get to making a Western handle... In 240 I kept the Hiro AS and the Blazen. Not sure why no wa gyuto made the cut. Well, I liked the 240 Watanabe but sold it after getting the 270 - depending on where the yen will go, I may buy one again or get one made with a similar profile but less reacting (i.e. when Dave starts using stainless steels :) ). The 225 Carter IP gyuto I had was a great knife that I had to sell for financial reasons. But on that one I somehow found the handle a little hefty and it got less use than the 240s, even though the length felt better. The 210 fish-handled Takeda should be taken away from me because I hardly ever use it and it keeps developing rust on me. http://cdn.kitchenknifeforums.com/images/smilies/animated-smileys-embarrassed-07.gif

The 195 Carter HG funayuki took some getting used to. Coming from German knives, for the longest time I wanted something with a little heft to it, and the Carter is just ridiculously light and thin. But over time I learned to appreciate it, and it is now my most used gyuto/funayuki (whatever the difference may be), especially when precise cutting is important. Realizing that, I also sold the 180ish Carter.

To summarize my ramblings: I find the combo of a light 195 and a slightly heftier 240 perfect to do most things as a home cook. I am on Marko's list for a 225 to replace the Carter, and that may be just the perfect bridge between the two.

Stefan

Lefty
08-28-2013, 09:33 PM
Yes, there are no rules. Hahaha

sachem allison
08-28-2013, 09:40 PM
Wait wait, can I still talk about length? My first two chef's knives were from Henckels and I always liked the 230 and only used the 260 for heavy tasks like wedging through a cabbage etc. Then I tried guytos and funayukis in approx. 150, 165, 180, 195, 210, 225, 240, 270, and 300. 300 was much too much for me as a home cook, and the 270 I kept is a Watanabe which is also a pretty massive knife that gets very little workout. But I just like Watanabe knives, so it stays regardless of use. I also have a very little used Hiro AS 270, but I set that aside in case I ever get to making a Western handle... In 240 I kept the Hiro AS and the Blazen. Not sure why no wa gyuto made the cut. Well, I liked the 240 Watanabe but sold it after getting the 270 - depending on where the yen will go, I may buy one again or get one made with a similar profile but less reacting (i.e. when Dave starts using stainless steels :) ). The 225 Carter IP gyuto I had was a great knife that I had to sell for financial reasons. But on that one I somehow found the handle a little hefty and it got less use than the 240s, even though the length felt better. The 210 fish-handled Takeda should be taken away from me because I hardly ever use it and it keeps developing rust on me. http://cdn.kitchenknifeforums.com/images/smilies/animated-smileys-embarrassed-07.gif

The 195 Carter HG funayuki took some getting used to. Coming from German knives, for the longest time I wanted something with a little heft to it, and the Carter is just ridiculously light and thin. But over time I learned to appreciate it, and it is now my most used gyuto/funayuki (whatever the difference may be), especially when precise cutting is important. Realizing that, I also sold the 180ish Carter.

To summarize my ramblings: I find the combo of a light 195 and a slightly heftier 240 perfect to do most things as a home cook. I am on Marko's list for a 225 to replace the Carter, and that may be just the perfect bridge between the two.

Stefan

I'll keep the fish safe for you.

CrisAnderson27
08-28-2013, 09:46 PM
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....

What didn't you like about them Tom? Meaning what shape caused your hand to cramp?

On the length thing (as a home cook)...I like a 210-225 for pretty much everything. I don't use shorter knives much except for opening packaging, lol...and I've never used anything much longer.

berko
08-28-2013, 10:03 PM
so, can i also throw in a new topic?

Lefty
08-28-2013, 10:06 PM
Yup! No rules. Haha. Just organically working around. Think coffee shop talk. :D

berko
08-28-2013, 10:14 PM
topic: serrated bread cleaver

im possessed by that idea since i found this sabatier on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-in-Vintage-Sabatier-Four-Star-Elephant-Serrated-Chefs-Bread-Knife-/380692518568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a30ad6a8
unfortunately they are all single beveled for lefties. nevertheless id like to try something like this. i thought about getting a budget cleaver and have someone put serrations on it.

EdipisReks
08-28-2013, 10:32 PM
Topic Number Two: Choils

I've actually sold some of my personal knives that I really really liked because the choil shape was off. If it cramps my hand, I can't do it....

I just need the choil to not be sharp or abrasive.

Don Nguyen
08-28-2013, 11:43 PM
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.

That makes sense. Would you actually prefer the square over a radius?

cookinstuff
08-29-2013, 12:37 AM
270 if I'm throwing on stocks, soups or mirepoix, 240 for detail work. Sometimes I just use one gyuto for a few days straight, and rotate, find an old one and bring it back into the fold, use it for a week straight and repeat.

chinacats
08-29-2013, 01:17 AM
I love the idea of this thread!

On length, I've pretty much always enjoyed a 10" (254'ish) knife so the 240's seem pretty close to right. The shortest gyuto I currently have is 225 and that is fine. That said, I've been wanting to try something shorter so I've ordered a new 210 from Maxim to see how they wind up performing for this home user. I really enjoy using anything up to about 280 so far, but anything I've used under 200 seems rather short.

On choils, as long as it's not sharp I don't mind it too much...I did break out a file for my Takeda's spine and choil the other day as they were annoyingly crisp. Favorite to date was the Kramer (Henckel's passaround); enjoyed the shape and also like the idea of easing the heel a bit.

For bread knives--use a gyuto!

And finally, I still say the best tool for breaking down chickens is my old Forschner curved boning knife. I've not tried J-knives for this and even though I guess that makes me rather close minded, the old style boner seems to just work and can't imagine any tool working better. Do I need to open my mind and try a honesuki?

Cheers!

spaceconvoy
08-29-2013, 02:27 AM
In terms of size, I think length is over-emphasized, while very few people talk about width, which can be equally if not more important (that's what she said)... My first 240 was very tall and felt unwieldy in my hands. Switched to a 210, but missed the extra length. I finally found a good balance in my current knife, which is a 240 with a very narrow french profile, 45mm at the heel. It still feels very nimble despite the length.

To add to the confusion, I want to talk about bolsters, since Lefty mentioned them in the original post... In my mind, they're like a girl who dresses really hot because she's insecure and actually boring in bed (sorry, this is the kind of analogy you get from me at 2 in the morning). Bolsters are seductive and feel great in your hand when you're air-chopping in the store, but they make the knife's balance too neutral for my taste. When you're actually using it in the kitchen, a neutrally-balanced knife feels like it's just sitting there and expecting you to do all the work (see, it's a good analogy) while a blade-heavy knife feels like it's working with you. So it's not bolsters per-se I have a problem with, but neutrally balanced knives, which sort of go hand-in-hand.

And yes, chinacats, bread knives are for people who can't sharpen :)

CrisAnderson27
08-29-2013, 02:31 AM
In terms of size, I think length is over-emphasized, while very few people talk about width, which can be equally if not more important (that's what she said)... My first 240 was very tall and felt unwieldy in my hands. Switched to a 210, but missed the extra length. I finally found a good balance in my current knife, which is a 240 with a very narrow french profile, 45mm at the heel. It still feels very nimble despite the length.

To add to the confusion, I want to talk about bolsters, since Lefty mentioned them the original post... In my mind, they're like a girl who dresses really hot because she's insecure and actually boring in bed (sorry, this is the kind of analogy you get from me at 2 in the morning). Bolsters are seductive and feel great in your hand when you're air-chopping in the store, but they make the knife's balance too neutral for my taste. When you're actually using it in the kitchen, a neutrally-balanced knife feels like it's just sitting there and expecting you to do all the work (see, it's a good analogy) while a blade-heavy knife feels like it's working with you. So it's not bolsters per-se I have a problem with, but neutrally balanced knives, which sort of go hand-in-hand.

And yes, chinacats, bread knives are for people who can't sharpen :)

LOL!!

I like shorter (height) knives as well, in the 40-45mm range...with a bit of forward balance. About 1.5" north of the ferrule works for me usually.

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:33 AM
The square choil thing doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. I have a nice callous where the bird finger meets the choil. So no big deal. The square kinda gives me a "locked in" feeling.
Yep, I got that callus and the one right next to it from the spine. I did have a knife once whose spine was so sharp it actually cut off that callus on my index finger. Never again.

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:34 AM
You must be new, don't you sleep?

LOL!!

I like shorter (height) knives as well, in the 40-45mm range...with a bit of forward balance. About 1.5" north of the ferrule works for me usually.

CrisAnderson27
08-29-2013, 02:36 AM
You must be new, don't you sleep?

Says the guy who calls me from New York at midnight my time, lol!

And for the record, about 4hrs a night usually :D.

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:37 AM
hea, thats two more than me

CrisAnderson27
08-29-2013, 02:39 AM
hea, thats two more than me

I should have added 'on average' lol.

Oh, operation 'W1 Folder' starts tomorrow I think :). But I don't want to derail this thread Tom was kind enough to start lol.

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:40 AM
no rules!

CrisAnderson27
08-29-2013, 02:46 AM
no rules!

Well, in that case! About 12mm on the heel, 64mm on the edge with a very flat profile. I could go single bevel, or double...either way.

I might even give it a k-tip :D.

Oh...to stay on topic...is there a reason that k-tips seem so popular? Is it just looks or is there a functional reason?

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:50 AM
sexy

sachem allison
08-29-2013, 02:50 AM
double

apicius9
08-29-2013, 03:13 AM
.

For bread knives--use a gyuto!






And yes, chinacats, bread knives are for people who can't sharpen :)


Arrgghh, I feel like the lone defender of the honor of the bread knife. You can cut bread with a gyuto just like you can cut fish with a sujihiki. Are you all rice eaters here? ;) Or wonder bread aficionados? Try a gyuto on a woodfire brick oven sourdough rye bread and sweep up the chips after you are done crying!

Stefan

Lefty
08-29-2013, 08:26 AM
I still don't use a bread knife, but after handling a few nicer ones, I see the allure. Still don't own one, but ya know....

If bolsters don't do anything functional that you like, how do you feel about the look of a peened "bolster" (or ferrule). The only knives I have without some visual change at the front of the handles are my Harners and my Itinomonn. I general, I find a knife looks boring without one, but Butch and Dan manage to make a knife look great with nothing more than two scales and some pins. I wish I could figure out how.

CrisAnderson27
08-29-2013, 12:11 PM
Don't forget Don Nguyen Lefty :). Some of his don't have the two tone scales, and so the only change is a bevel.

Way back when I used to not put handles on knives lol...it was because I didn't feel I had the skill to do a proper bolster, and to me a simple transition from scales to blade was very plain. There's only so many angles you can cut the scales at, lol. I didn't like the look of wa handles at all (all I'd ever seen were stock ones), mostly due to the large transition in diameter from ferrule to machi. When I first found custom wa handles, it was a revelation. I prefer how wa handled blades cut, as well as how they look with a proper custom. But even on those, if there's a large transition in height from the ferrule to the machi, its a bit of a turn off for me.

GlassEye
08-29-2013, 03:07 PM
Arrgghh, I feel like the lone defender of the honor of the bread knife. You can cut bread with a gyuto just like you can cut fish with a sujihiki. Are you all rice eaters here? ;) Or wonder bread aficionados? Try a gyuto on a woodfire brick oven sourdough rye bread and sweep up the chips after you are done crying!

Stefan

I'll join you in defense of the bread knife.

EdipisReks
08-29-2013, 03:13 PM
Arrgghh, I feel like the lone defender of the honor of the bread knife. You can cut bread with a gyuto just like you can cut fish with a sujihiki. Are you all rice eaters here? ;) Or wonder bread aficionados? Try a gyuto on a woodfire brick oven sourdough rye bread and sweep up the chips after you are done crying!

Stefan

if you pierce the crust with the point first, a gyuto usually has no issue cutting very crusty bread. having said that, i almost always use my Tojiro ITK.

Lefty
09-02-2013, 02:59 PM
Travel Knife:

The one knife that I likely couldn't be without - yes, even with my pettysuki, Itinomonn, custom Carter, ZKramer, Yoshikane, the list goes on and on - is my Butch Harner travel knife. I briefly mentioned it in my earlier post about knife length, and as I said, it has changed me. It's all of 175mm along the edge, but with full knuckle clearance, a wicked tip, and a perfect Zebrawood handle (I love Zebrawood), it's the knife that I'm currently most attached to...or, up there, for sure. I bring my travel knife with me for work. I bring it with me if I know I'll be cooking at my in-laws'. I bring it with me when I am going somewhere for over a night, and it might need to be called upon. One thing that I love about having one "go-to", while traveling, is that it forces me to really push the knife to its limits, being used as a honesuki, petty, slicer and of course, a gyuto. So far, so good! I'm amazed at how versatile one great knife can be, which is completely ridiculous considering when a person who is looking to get great knives asks, I/we always answer, "get one good knife and go from there". Kinda makes you think about this wonderful and all encompassing rabbit hole we seem to have fallen down, doesn't it? Oh well, until I find a way out, I'll have a slew of wonderfully hear-treated and ground blades to play with, while another is dragged around with me, from destination to destination.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/A391FDFB-882A-43FF-B25B-2C83C15598EC-15933-0000172274EF4B42_zps95885ae3.jpg

CrisAnderson27
09-02-2013, 03:40 PM
I really like the spine profile of that one...and the edge profile looks very useful!

Don Nguyen
09-03-2013, 01:34 AM
Is there a trick to that rubber band?

apicius9
09-03-2013, 01:43 AM
if you pierce the crust with the point first, a gyuto usually has no issue cutting very crusty bread. having said that, i almost always use my Tojiro ITK.

How about "if you pierce the skin with the point first, a gyuto usually can cut a tomato"? Sounds like a bad knife, right? Why is that o.k. for bread? Again, bread and bread knives don't get enough love around here ;) (And I am really only teasing with this...).

Stefan

don
09-03-2013, 01:49 AM
With regards to lengths, I'm reaching for the 180mm gyuto/santoku more and more. Large meals, I'll bring out a larger knife. However, for weeknight meals for the family of 3, the 180mm gets the love.

The Harner travel knife looks great.

apicius9
09-03-2013, 01:50 AM
Here is a question: Do you have a knife in your arsenal that would be frowned upon by every respectable knife nerd on this forum, but that you still would not give up? For me this is my old Henckels 230 slicer ('ham knife', as they call it in Germany). This knife has seen heavy abuse, is butt ugly, totally scratched up from failed sharpening attempts (when starting with stones), but I have had it forever and it just feels right. I even had a Nenox 230 for a while and sold it again because I kept reaching for the trusty old Henckels. Certainly not because it even remotely performs the same, but because it is so familiar. And for me as a home cook, edge durability is not such a big deal because I don't work my knives as hard as a pro. So, what's your ugly duckling?

Stefan

MikeHL
09-03-2013, 02:04 AM
I used a thin (#6) cleaver as a bread knife....


Travel Knife:

The one knife that I likely couldn't be without - yes, even with my pettysuki, Itinomonn, custom Carter, ZKramer, Yoshikane, the list goes on and on - is my Butch Harner travel knife. I briefly mentioned it in my earlier post about knife length, and as I said, it has changed me. It's all of 175mm along the edge, but with full knuckle clearance, a wicked tip, and a perfect Zebrawood handle (I love Zebrawood), it's the knife that I'm currently most attached to...or, up there, for sure. I bring my travel knife with me for work. I bring it with me if I know I'll be cooking at my in-laws'. I bring it with me when I am going somewhere for over a night, and it might need to be called upon. One thing that I love about having one "go-to", while traveling, is that it forces me to really push the knife to its limits, being used as a honesuki, petty, slicer and of course, a gyuto. So far, so good! I'm amazed at how versatile one great knife can be, which is completely ridiculous considering when a person who is looking to get great knives asks, I/we always answer, "get one good knife and go from there". Kinda makes you think about this wonderful and all encompassing rabbit hole we seem to have fallen down, doesn't it? Oh well, until I find a way out, I'll have a slew of wonderfully hear-treated and ground blades to play with, while another is dragged around with me, from destination to destination.



Interesting topic on travel knives, it would be interesting hearing what every one travels with.

My criteria for a travel knife is:
Cheap: won't cry if I forget it
Stainless: low maintenance
Smallish: no need to scare the locals
Easy the sharpen: too lazy to haul stones around

So far my kit is:
Opinal 8 Stainless
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjPr7oMxqnZWyqneRHQwDQw.jpg

Dexter Chinese cleaver (more of a nakiri)
http://www.twinsupply.com/dextercutlery/images/ITEM_NUM/08030.jpg

I have to admit its more focused on the fruit and veg side of things. Weirdly, I never eat enough of while traveling.

Lefty
09-03-2013, 09:45 AM
I have a few "uncool" knives that I won't let go of. Namely, my Icel mini chef that I picked up in Portugal, and my Ivo santoku that is also Portuguese. Both serve a purpose, and I actually really like them...despite their 56hrc. :)

Lefty
09-06-2013, 09:49 AM
Not quite knife commentary, but is anyone with me on thinking that "Dos Equis Guy" and Chuck Norris are either a) long lost twin brothers, or b) the same person, with a different beard mask on?

CrisAnderson27
09-06-2013, 01:55 PM
I vote same person. That accent is TOTALLY forced!

chinacats
10-18-2013, 01:54 AM
I've owned a few different nakiri's and cleavers and thinking that the best of both worlds is something in between. Similar to the stainless handled Chinese cleavers in size and profile, but made with good carbon steel with proper grind like a nice nakiri. Handle could still retain the traditional barrel shape maybe made of some nice burl. Is there such a creature or is this just a dream for a future custom? Middle one below is ~ 195mm x 82mm

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/knifedude/PA180739_zpsec1dd42d.jpg