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Marko Tsourkan
09-18-2013, 12:12 PM
I am very found of the S grind (as Theory called it and the word stuck), which happened to be similar to Shigefusa grind :) . Over the years I have seen many Shiges, from hefty on the spine and above the edge, to very thin and light (current trend it seems).

The thinner the grind above the edge, the better the cut initiation and food separation on tall things, like potatoes. However, because the convex above the edge is rather not very pronounced, shallow things will stick. I have played with different degree of convexity, but end result is the same - some stickage on shallow things.

So what is a good balance here? How many find the trade-off (good release on most things, ease of cutting vs some stickage on shallow foods) worth it?

I would like to hear Shige users comments.

Thank you.

Marko

PS: I stated already that I think there is no one perfect geometry for cutting all things, and I am steering in a direction of offering several different geometries in my custom work tailored to customer cutting preferences.

chinacats
09-18-2013, 12:32 PM
Hey Marko, I'm currently on my third Shig (this one is a 210) and though maybe not so helpful, the reason that I keep coming back is the balance between the cutting ease and stiction. Stiction on larger items such as potatoes is a deal breaker for me. On garlic and other items I am not bothered so much if I have to wipe them off the blade. So far I personally find Shigefusa to have found the best balance between stiction and cutting ease.

Cheers

Marko Tsourkan
09-18-2013, 12:40 PM
Hey Marko, I'm currently on my third Shig (this one is a 210) and though maybe not so helpful, the reason that I keep coming back is the balance between the cutting ease and stiction. Stiction on larger items such as potatoes is a deal breaker for me. On garlic and other items I am not bothered so much if I have to wipe them off the blade. So far I personally find Shigefusa to have found the best balance between the stiction and cutting ease.

Cheers

Thanks! I am of same opinion, but I am sure there other opinions out there and I would like to hear them.

Anton
09-18-2013, 01:18 PM
Very person indeed; for this range of knife I'll say balance around good release.

In the case of my Shigs or really Gyutos in this range (taller heels, heftier blades) which I mostly use these to cut larger items; release and convexity plays a larger role in my opinion and for my use. When going with smaller items then I reach for a thinner and shorter knife (Carter 210).

Have 2 Shig Gyutos and each does perform slightly different, almost exactly as you described; In my case a 240 Yo, which has the thicker spine (3.7MM) does seem to have a higher degree of convexity as it does release better than the next thinner one, for this reason it wins in my selection (if only it could have a little less belly it would be a near perfect knife), again for this range and purpose. I find the thinner ones, while it does slide a little easier through most things just doesn't do what I expect this knife to do. Perhaps, I'm not looking for the one to do it all, since I have different ranges of knives for this reason.

Lefty
09-18-2013, 01:49 PM
I've long said that convex grinds are overdone. If you go too far, you get a fatty. While nothing will really stick, if the convex is very close to the edge, the cutting ability will be sacrificed to find food release. Food release is important, but on lightweight/smaller food items, some sticking is not a big deal, because they easily push off. I'd take a knife with minor sticking that cuts beautifully any day.

Asteger
09-18-2013, 02:19 PM
I have or have had a small number of the gyuto that are well-regarded here (all Japanese) and overall I'd have to say that my Shig is the best cutter, though I might reach for or prefer others for other reasons. I'm aware the trend is for Shig gyuto to be thinner and, as mine was made no more than a year ago (Sept 2012 I believe), I'd assumed it was an example of this style. However, now I'm not sure as it's the only one I've tried/owned. Going by measuring tape, the thickness above the heel on mine is 4.0 (oh, and it's a 240) which means it's about the same as Anton's preferred one above, which is his heavier knife. I'm a bit surprised and am wondering how you, Marko, or others would distinguish between the heftier older ones and the apparent newer lighter and thinner ones.

By the way, I find with my gyuto falls away quite nicely on both higher and shallower cuts.

Marko Tsourkan
09-18-2013, 02:59 PM
I have or have had a small number of the gyuto that are well-regarded here (all Japanese) and overall I'd have to say that my Shig is the best cutter, though I might reach for or prefer others for other reasons. I'm aware the trend is for Shig gyuto to be thinner and, as mine was made no more than a year ago (Sept 2012 I believe), I'd assumed it was an example of this style. However, now I'm not sure as it's the only one I've tried/owned. Going by measuring tape, the thickness above the heel on mine is 4.0 (oh, and it's a 240) which means it's about the same as Anton's preferred one above, which is his heavier knife. I'm a bit surprised and am wondering how you, Marko, or others would distinguish between the heftier older ones and the apparent newer lighter and thinner ones.

By the way, I find with my gyuto falls away quite nicely on both higher and shallower cuts.

I measure thinness of the knife about 10mm up the edge and higher. Shallow cuts are like 5-7mm thick slices of sweet potatoes, carrots, or regular potatoes. Everything higher than that, would separate fine on a thin geometry.

M

Asteger
09-18-2013, 04:03 PM
To my eye, my knife looks exactly 1mm thick 1cm above the edge at the heel. Is this typical of the 'very thin and light' gyuto or perhaps the thicker and older type?

For what it's worth, I can't really see any convexing on mine in the final 10mm or, perhaps, 8mm getting toward the edge. No complaints about food release for shallow or higher cuts for me, though.

Marko Tsourkan
09-18-2013, 04:16 PM
To my eye, my knife looks exactly 1mm thick 1cm above the edge at the heel. Is this typical of the 'very thin and light' gyuto or perhaps the thicker and older type?

For what it's worth, I can't really see any convexing on mine in the final 10mm or, perhaps, 8mm getting toward the edge. No complaints about food release for shallow or higher cuts for me, though.

The thinness changes from heel on, but 1mm 10mm up the heel is an example of a thin gyuto.

Asteger
09-18-2013, 05:05 PM
The thinness changes from heel on, but 1mm 10mm up the heel is an example of a thin gyuto.

:thumbsup:

Seth
09-18-2013, 06:40 PM
Hi Marko,
Of the 100s of shig gyutos, I have four now. The only 'control' is a 270 kasumi and 270 keiteji weighing in at 278 g and 296 g. The heavier one has a bit more convexnessness than the kasumi and I tend to reach for the kasumi more often because dropping through food is more to my liking. In practice, a wet starchy potato sticks almost regardless and this is sometimes more dependent on technique also. So my vote is for the nimble, controlled cutter that might sacrifice a bit of sticktion. Some of the later Dr. Naka's were a bit too thin in my opinion, however. Later, I will get out the micrometer to see how these two really differ.

Marko Tsourkan
09-19-2013, 06:42 PM
Thanks guys. I am going to do one last comparison, and go back to grinding.

M

Lucretia
09-20-2013, 12:31 AM
I just pulled out the calipers. My 180 Shig is just under 1.6mm about 10 mm forward of the heel. It's down to 1.22 a little way back from the tip. Some things stick to it, but for ease of cutting, it's freaking amazing.

Marko Tsourkan
09-23-2013, 11:58 AM
It sounds like I have to offer two thicknesses - standard and "laser". There seems to be no way around it in combining the two, though difference in geometries is under .5mm, but performance is different.