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View Full Version : Ken Onion "Rain" Mini reveiw



daveb
10-03-2013, 11:20 PM
I got to play with the new "Rain" 8 inch chef.

It looks and feels short for 8". Prob due to the top of the angled handle being an inch (or so) forward on the blade. The blade/handle juncture was awkward. Pinch grip was not as bad as it looks though far from ideal. I could not find a "typical" grip that was comfortable but the "pointy finger" was closest. Not something I would want to take to a case of anything - though I don't think thats what it's designed for.

19006

19007

19009

Rockers only need apply. Knife has more belly than I do. Good new is that is what most of target market is looking for. Consumers looking for that distinctive "Ken" style will find it.

19011

In use the knife feels thick. Took considerably force to dice onion, both the tip work and the push cut. When slicing tomato it compressed the tomato before slicing through the skin and continued to compress it going through. Red potatoes were also difficult to slice.

19045

Distal Taper?
19046

19048

19047


F&F The Lamson(?) part is good. The handle is ok, fit is good, blade is uniform. The blade finish is subjective - some think it looks "cool", I thought it looked like a gum wrapper.

Overall I think I hits the target market as a flashy housewife knife, competing with Shun, Wusthof and Henckels for a growing market of "keep up with the Jone's" consumers. It's at a similar price point as the Shun Classic or Wustie Ikon. Will be interesting to follow and see if it can get a viable market share.

YMMV

daveb
10-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Must have timed out while trying to sort out the attachments.

brainsausage
10-03-2013, 11:40 PM
That handle screams S/M gear to me. No bueno...

Thanks for the review though. No really- thanks for going through that experience...

chinacats
10-03-2013, 11:55 PM
Is the third photo the choil? If so it looks fatter than an Artifex...

knyfeknerd
10-04-2013, 12:42 AM
Holy Carp!
It looks like Dr. Seuss made that thing in Whoville.
It does look to be made of recycled foil gum wrappers.
Good call Dave.

panda
10-04-2013, 04:34 AM
even before i got into knives i took one look at a ken onion and said 'that looks awkward as hell'

mr drinky
10-04-2013, 06:40 AM
Ken hit this one on the head!

And by that I mean...I don't think in my wildest imagination I could have dreamed up a knife that appeals to me so little.

Btw, how did it perform cutting through that bench scraper. That's the real test ;)

Thanks for taking it for the team and reviewing it.

k.

franzb69
10-04-2013, 10:16 AM
from the looks of this i'd rather have an artifex

=D

EdipisReks
10-04-2013, 10:46 AM
the choil shot looks like a yo-deba, and a thick one at that.

spaceconvoy
10-04-2013, 10:55 AM
So what? Does that affect the performance of the choil?

Choil shots tell you as much about the geometry of a knife as a woman's foot tells you about the rest of her body.

Sorry to intrude, just a pet peeve of mine.

knyfeknerd
10-04-2013, 11:50 AM
So what? Does that affect the performance of the choil?

Choil shots tell you as much about the geometry of a knife as a woman's foot tells you about the rest of her body.

Sorry to intrude, just a pet peeve of mine.
Some people have foot fetishes!
Maybe there's a special club-foot, or deformed foot fetish.

Dude honestly here you go again "poking the bear"
"petting the porcupine"

You really can't tell anything about a knife by the choil?
really?

Here we go again. We're gonna get all riled up and start talking **** about each other, forum ethics, etc. on a Ken Onion and/or Chef Knives To Go thread!

spaceconvoy
10-04-2013, 11:58 AM
Why does it have to be about that? You're the one bringing crap up.... I'm trying to make a point that you can't tell anything about blade geometry from the choil.

Yes, you really can't "tell" anything. You can assume a lot, and a lot of knives will validate your assumptions. But "judgment by choil shot" without any experience with a knife should be frowned upon.

knyfeknerd
10-04-2013, 12:08 PM
I respectfully disagree sir. I always look at the choil.
Every time.

EdipisReks
10-04-2013, 12:14 PM
So what? Does that affect the performance of the choil?

Choil shots tell you as much about the geometry of a knife as a woman's foot tells you about the rest of her body.

Sorry to intrude, just a pet peeve of mine.

the choil is awfully important if you are cutting with the heel, bud. In that picture, you can also see that the heel edge is quite thick.

spaceconvoy
10-04-2013, 01:02 PM
I respectfully disagree sir. I always look at the choil.
Every time.

Then I have a Takayuki Grand Chef wa-gyuto to sell you :D

http://oi54.tinypic.com/sw4fpy.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/buzzard767/Takayuki/NewBevel.jpg


This is why you can't trust choil shots alone. People who own one complain about the Grand Chef being a "plank on a stick" but many are tricked into buying it from the choil shot.

In the 2nd pic, see how that huge bevel curves down to almost nothing at the point of the heel? The heel is the only place where the choil geometry exists.

chinacats
10-04-2013, 01:32 PM
SC, that is a bizarre example but for most situations the choil shot really helps to reveal the geometry of the knife. And back to the original point of the thread, this Onion looks butt ugly at the choil and I doubt if the geometry improves over the course of the edge though I'm sure the daveb would know.

bahamaroot
10-04-2013, 01:34 PM
That is one Fugly knife!

MowgFace
10-04-2013, 01:37 PM
Your GCW looks bent 1 cm from the handle.

Mucho Bocho
10-04-2013, 01:44 PM
Chris you and Justin crack me up. where the hell do you come up with this. thanks for the hoot


Holy Carp!
It looks like Dr. Seuss made that thing in Whoville.

daveb
10-04-2013, 01:45 PM
SC, The choil is accepted as an indicator of the overall knife geometry - hence the choil shot being de rigueur in a review. In this review the thick choil, lack of distal taper and cutting experience at the tip and mid point all support a conclusion that this is a fatty. And for this application, (it's certainly not targeted at a professional or enen geek user), that may be ok.

Your "woman's foot" analogy fails. If "A" is not an indicator of "B" then "C" must not be an indicator of "D"?

Your opinion on the choil as an indicator of overall geometry may be different and may warrant it's own thread, but to paraphrase KKnerd, quit poking the damn bear. :)

Regards,

Dave

Mucho Bocho
10-04-2013, 01:50 PM
Dave, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, always inciteful. What wonky knife. Can you believe that somone that has the knife knowledge of ken Onion is designing something so bazzar.

spaceconvoy
10-04-2013, 02:29 PM
Man, you guys really hate it when I'm right, dontcha :)

No, the foot analogy is perfect. You could get a good rough estimate of height & weight from someone's foot, assuming they have normal proportions (ie, a knife with consistent geometry from heel to tip). But you can't tell anything for sure, because not everyone is built that way.

It was just a hunch - it's hard to believe it's really that thick behind the edge through the entire length of the knife. How does it cut anything?

ar11
10-04-2013, 02:32 PM
I just checked out the Rain line - and his Slicer has jimping! TACTICAL Kitchen Cutlery yo!



http://www.chefworks.com/?page=shop/flypage_ken_onion&product_id=1369&category=cutlery_kenonionrainseriesknives&PHPSESSID=kutvqemq93p8qc4bbvqt26aco2

tk59
10-04-2013, 02:35 PM
That choil shot is disturbing. Surely it thins out quickly toward the tip, no?

Crothcipt
10-04-2013, 04:36 PM
I just checked out the Rain line - and his Slicer has jimping! TACTICAL Kitchen Cutlery yo!



http://www.chefworks.com/?page=shop/flypage_ken_onion&product_id=1369&category=cutlery_kenonionrainseriesknives&PHPSESSID=kutvqemq93p8qc4bbvqt26aco2

Sorry but I don't know what you are meaning on jimping.

Tk I think the lack of distal taper means it doesn't much. Watching that youtube vid I posted in the other thread I wouldn't think it get thin very much at all.

Honestly you can tell a lot about a person from the teeth, feet and hands. Wait that is a horse.... oh wait that is a person. Any way the choil shot says a lot about the knife exp. when it's new. After it has been with someone and been sharpened it can be misleading. Just like white teeth.

knyfeknerd
10-04-2013, 04:42 PM
If a woman's foot has Kankles, she's 99.99999999% of the time gonna be fat. I'm not really too picky, but some nasty feets are really a turn-off for me.
Hammer toes
Bunions
Extra toes (polydactyly)
Foot fungus
Nail fungus
crusty foot
stank foot
swamp foot

I rest my case.
I win. U lose.
Ha!

bahamaroot
10-04-2013, 05:01 PM
That is still one fugly knife!

ar11
10-04-2013, 05:11 PM
Sorry but I don't know what you are meaning on jimping.




Jimping describes notches cut into the blade or handle for grip. In the photo below you can see jumping above the spydie hole for more thumb traction. If you ever watch tactical folding knife videos (nutnfancy) those guys are crazy about jimping.. Because need that grip when you're in a life or death knife fight in the pouring rain. Ken Onion, who's known for making fighting knives, adding this feature makes sense!
http://paulberetta.com/images/compare/military_jimping.jpg

Lucretia
10-04-2013, 05:13 PM
So what does it mean that I can pick up pennies with my toes and hold a pencil with them and write my name?

Crothcipt
10-04-2013, 05:18 PM
Ty ar11 never heard it called that. But then again fighter/bowie knives are a total different world than kitchen knives which Mr. Onion has proven again.

bahamaroot
10-04-2013, 05:18 PM
So what does it mean that I can pick up pennies with my toes and hold a pencil with them and write my name?

That you're part Chimpanzee.

Crothcipt
10-04-2013, 05:21 PM
So what does it mean that I can pick up pennies with my toes and hold a pencil with them and write my name?

It means that you have taken to much time playing with objects with your toes. Says you think about every step and prob. walk barefoot too. At one point in time prob a athlete. I could go on....

mkriggen
10-04-2013, 07:39 PM
So what does it mean that I can pick up pennies with my toes and hold a pencil with them and write my name?

I'll tell ya in a minute, first take your shoes off and get in the truck:evilgrin:

EdipisReks
10-04-2013, 09:07 PM
So what does it mean that I can pick up pennies with my toes and hold a pencil with them and write my name?

I know a man who was born with deformities due to thalidomide who could do that, so my guess is that you have no arms. Do you use your feet to cut food with? Not sure what the health department would have to say about that...

cclin
10-04-2013, 10:40 PM
That choil shot is disturbing. Surely it thins out quickly toward the tip, no?
I don't know about new Ken Onion knife but old one has distal taper edge. not great but it's there....
5mm above edge- hill:1.35mm, mid:0.89mm, 0.5cm from tip: 0.73mm
compare to Konosuke Ginsan-
5mm above edge- hill:0.89mm, mid:0.69mm, 0.5cm from tip: 0.60mm
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20131004_163559_zpsf636df76.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20131004_163559_zpsf636df76.jpg.html)

Lucretia
10-04-2013, 10:40 PM
Someone posted a video sales pitch of this knife recently--looked about like trying to cut food holding on to a hatchet head. Only the hatchet would be prettier. And might cut better.

And ER, I've got a special video just for you if I can figure out how to upload it to the off topic room.

Dave Martell
10-04-2013, 11:24 PM
Now I understand why Lucretia asked for a toe notch to be worked into the last rehandle I did for her. :D

Lucretia
10-04-2013, 11:55 PM
Dave,

Sorry, a Rader handle is superior for footwork. See the off topic room. :D

Lucretia
10-04-2013, 11:59 PM
But I do love my Martell rehandles for the mundane jobs when using hands...

spaceconvoy
10-04-2013, 11:59 PM
If a woman's foot has Kankles, she's 99.99999999% of the time gonna be fat. I'm not really too picky, but some nasty feets are really a turn-off for me.
Hammer toes
Bunions
Extra toes (polydactyly)
Foot fungus
Nail fungus
crusty foot
stank foot
swamp foot

I rest my case.
I win. U lose.
Ha!

Lol, I luvs me some cankles. Like a Heiji, some thick meaty heels tapering up to a svelte spine... This has become one weird thread.

Dave Martell
10-05-2013, 12:14 AM
Dave,

Sorry, a Rader handle is superior for footwork.

Touche

daveb
10-05-2013, 03:20 PM
This has become one weird thread.

When you poke the bear you don't know what the bear is gonna do...

tomsch
10-12-2013, 11:17 AM
This is what happens when well known tactical knife makers venture into the kitchen knife world. Some do well and some........ well do this!

Geo87
10-14-2013, 09:40 AM
Kind of related: a not very knife savvy work colleague has a 7" ken onion cleaver . A truly ridiculous thing.
$300 : wierd handle, vg10 , HRC:60 , 16 degree angle!! They actually sell these with a description stating they are designed to smash through bone. Two guesses what happens next ?? :)
Massive chips, it should be illegal to sell this "cleaver "
That's my two cents and why I don't like ken onion or shun .
No refund either, I fixed it for him & reprofiled to 30 degrees .
Even then still ugly :)

Noodle Soup
10-16-2013, 06:45 PM
Say what you want but Ken is the only custom knifemaker that has become famous for designing factory kitchen knives. Kramer is probably No. 2 and the rest of makers are pretty much unknowns.

MowgFace
10-16-2013, 07:04 PM
Say what you want but Ken is the only custom knifemaker that has become famous for designing factory kitchen knives. Kramer is probably No. 2 and the rest of makers are pretty much unknowns.

Being famous doesnt mean you are good at what you do. People just know you do it. Look at the slobs from Jersey Shore. They are famous.

Noodle Soup
10-16-2013, 08:18 PM
Money talks and the rest walk boys

Geo87
10-16-2013, 08:35 PM
I must admit I don't know a lot about ken onion ... All I know is his name is attached to a cleaver advertised for bone chopping tasks that is made out of chippy steel at a 16 degree angle.
At $300 ish that's a pretty shocking design flaw

daveb
10-16-2013, 08:48 PM
Say what you want but Ken is the only custom knifemaker that has become famous for designing factory kitchen knives. Kramer is probably No. 2 and the rest of makers are pretty much unknowns.



A previous thread on Ken's knives quickly denigrated into a discussion about Ken. I intentionally started a new thread focused on the line of knives and their merits (or lack thereof) .





From Dave M: "Please use this forum to post objective respectful reviews of kitchen knives & related products. "





A discussion of Ken's acumen, design ability, and market success would certainly be interesting but perhaps better placed elsewhere.

Regards,

Dave

NO ChoP!
10-19-2013, 09:56 AM
Say what you want but Ken is the only custom knifemaker that has become famous for designing factory kitchen knives. Kramer is probably No. 2 and the rest of makers are pretty much unknowns.


I own a John Pimble edition Old Hickory from the 60's to 70's era. I think that precedes the big O and Mr. Kramer.....

Noodle Soup
10-19-2013, 10:56 AM
And who was John Primble? He wasn't a custom knifemaker, as best I can tell he was a salesman for a large hardware wholesaler in the 1920-30s. Old Hickory (Ontario Cutlery) and all the other Old something another "forged" kitchen knives are based on a con job a guy (Nuna Knife Works) was running in the early 20th century selling knives to blacksmiths that they then claimed they handforged them in their own shop. Dave Murphy and old Gerber collection would probably be a better example of a custom maker that was able to sell a successful kitchen knife line to a factory. Other names are few and far between.

chefcomesback
10-20-2013, 01:51 AM
I have received an e-mail from a website selling this knives , judging from the pictures it had so much belly it could be on the "biggest loser" show

El Pescador
10-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Mini review..."IT SUCKS!"

bahamaroot
10-22-2013, 10:10 PM
Mini Review --> IT SUCKS AND IT'S UGLY!

jklip13
10-22-2013, 10:38 PM
dont worry guys he also sells a belt driven sharpening system so you can make it into the perfect knife!

Justin0505
10-24-2013, 07:00 PM
Anyone else get that "chocolate rain" song stuck in their head every time this thread pops up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA

bahamaroot
10-24-2013, 07:06 PM
Justin, you ain't right dude.

Lucretia
10-25-2013, 12:04 AM
I think someone should put together a Tay Zonday/Rick Astley duet.

Tatletz
10-28-2013, 02:47 AM
Ok guys I became a bit confused. Please advise if this Ken Onion Rain series chef's knife is good or not. And also what about BDZ1 steel used for these knives.
Thank you in advance :knife:

chefcomesback
10-28-2013, 03:14 AM
You can do lot lot better for that money , I would say look at something else. There was a nenox 270mm gyuto on B/S/T , i don't know if it is still available but you may want to look at it. It was also from Sydney.
For a $200 knife I wouldn't go for a company whose expertise is making chef jackets and pants.

Justin0505
10-28-2013, 05:42 AM
They were manufactured by Lamson and designed by Ken Onion. Chef Works is just a retailer so their expertise in pants has nothing to do with it. However, there's a good chance that they would have turned out better had CW or perhaps a precocious orangutan designed them.

They're unfortunately a cliche of the disaster that usually results when someone with expertise making non-kitchen knives comes along and decides to "revolutionize" the kitchen knife industry without bothering to really understand them first. There are so many fundamental flaws in their design (terrible ergonomics, horrible profile for anything other than rock-chopping, and hilariously thick behind the edge) that the steel and materials are basically irrelevant even though they may very well be fine.

chefcomesback
10-28-2013, 05:58 AM
19727
They were manufactured by Lamson and designed by Ken Onion. Chef Works is just a retailer so their expertise in pants has nothing to do with it. However, there's a good chance that they would have turned out better had CW or perhaps a precocious orangutan designed them.

They're unfortunately a cliche of the disaster that usually results when someone with expertise making non-kitchen knives comes along and decides to "revolutionize" the kitchen knife industry without bothering to really understand them first. There are so many fundamental flaws in their design (terrible ergonomics, horrible profile for anything other than rock-chopping, and hilariously thick behind the edge) that the steel and materials are basically irrelevant even though they may very well be fine.

you are right Justin , but I am sure in the promo video it was mentioned that "chefs and their cutting preferences were studied. Maybe this one?

Justin0505
10-28-2013, 01:29 PM
lol +1 for the kitchen confidential reference.

I think that he probably also watched a lot of this chick, esp the part starting around 6:40...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRniP-HGdxI

EdipisReks
10-28-2013, 01:36 PM
wut. i also love the idea of putting cutting boards on stove surfaces.

ThEoRy
10-28-2013, 03:43 PM
lol +1 for the kitchen confidential reference.

I think that he probably also watched a lot of this chick, esp the part starting around 6:40...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRniP-HGdxI


Chawp Chawp Chawp!!!

Tatletz
10-29-2013, 12:57 AM
You can do lot lot better for that money , I would say look at something else. There was a nenox 270mm gyuto on B/S/T , i don't know if it is still available but you may want to look at it. It was also from Sydney.
For a $200 knife I wouldn't go for a company whose expertise is making chef jackets and pants.

Thank you chefcomsback, not sure what B/S/T means.

Tatletz
10-29-2013, 01:36 AM
They were manufactured by Lamson and designed by Ken Onion. Chef Works is just a retailer so their expertise in pants has nothing to do with it. However, there's a good chance that they would have turned out better had CW or perhaps a precocious orangutan designed them.

They're unfortunately a cliche of the disaster that usually results when someone with expertise making non-kitchen knives comes along and decides to "revolutionize" the kitchen knife industry without bothering to really understand them first. There are so many fundamental flaws in their design (terrible ergonomics, horrible profile for anything other than rock-chopping, and hilariously thick behind the edge) that the steel and materials are basically irrelevant even though they may very well be fine.

Thank you Justin0505, I was thinking to buy one for Christmas(now obviously not). It's good that I first checked with the forums :doublethumbsup:

ThEoRy
10-29-2013, 10:13 AM
Thank you chefcomsback, not sure what B/S/T means.

Buy sell trade.