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View Full Version : New Product Survey - Leather Saya



Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 11:54 AM
The idea is not new - Devin has produced a few of these when he started his ITK line.

The cost of it will be considerably less than of a wooden saya, as the production process is a bit simpler, plus, a knife will not be required for fitting (an outline will suffice).

A leather saya could fit nicely in a line of leather products I am considering to produce, particularly leather knife rolls.

Is there an interest?

Thanks,

M

Pensacola Tiger
10-07-2013, 12:12 PM
I have a couple of leather sheaths/sayas that Pierre made, and they are a very good alternative to a wooden saya for transportation. Sounds like a good addition to your other offerings, Marko.

JohnnyChance
10-07-2013, 12:35 PM
I've had some good ones and some crummy ones. Still prefer a wooden saya, but I haven't had any great leather ones. I know there are better ones out there, or better designs, I just haven't used one yet that I prefer to wood.

Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 12:56 PM
Wood sayas are labor intensive if you make the way I make them - you have to cut/resaw/flatten the wood, carve the cavity, glue it, shape it to the knife's profile and geometry (my sayas have distal tapers and are convex shaped), finish it to a high grit and coat with finishing oil, TruOil or lacquer. These are my personal preference, and there is no way to simplify the process by much. Also, each knife has to be fitted individually for an exact fit, so that adds to the total cost.

A well designed leather saya with a tight fit and a lock system to keep a knife in place could be a good alternative to a wooden saya for folks who transport their knives occasionally.

I will be aiming to produce them at about 30% less than the cost of a poplar saya (before shipping the knife in), and those for factory-made probably even cheaper as those could be made in batches.

M

Mrmnms
10-07-2013, 01:37 PM
if it gently protects the knife, I'd be interested in a few nice leather sayas.

cclin
10-07-2013, 02:45 PM
I'm stubborn & old school! I'm still thinking wooden saya fit best with wa gyuto & Leather Sheath fit better with western chef knife! my:2cents: I'm much prefer wooden saya/wa- handle!!

Gravy Power
10-07-2013, 02:47 PM
if it gently protects the knife, I'd be interested in a few nice leather sayas.

+1

If the price is right I would take about six of these off your hands right now.

Baby Huey
10-07-2013, 02:51 PM
I would be interested as well.

cookinstuff
10-07-2013, 03:13 PM
I certainly enjoy leather sayas. But, initially I was attracted to your woodworking handles and sayas. So, it was your amazing sayas that initially got me interested in your work, in all honesty any orders coming from you, I would imagine I would be pairing with a nice wooden saya.

But, as I really like leather sheaths, I would have to see what you make before I have an opinion. I enjoy my leather sheaths, I would be curious to see how you make them, I kind of just threw mine together. They are saddle stitched and the funayuki has a welt, but the other two don't really need it. I made a sheath for a 210 gengetsu for a friend, first time we tried without a welt, it didn't go so well, cut the stitching right out, second shot went better, but the fit was a bit worse.

Pierre makes a really nice sheath, I have one on a filet that fits really well. I think it depends on the knife. Here are some shots of the ones I made for my Carters if you don't mind me posting some shots on your forum. I would say they keep the knives safer than a saya, there is absolutely no movement. As long as you dry them really well before putting them away, I can see the moisture getting locked in there and giving carbons a tough time. Yours will look much nicer I'm assuming, I'm not much of a craftsmen.

19134191351913619137

Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 03:42 PM
It's not one or the other, it's Both! :D
Wooden sayas are here to stay, but I recognize that for some folks they might be too expensive, so leather sayas is a less expensive alternative. There will be something for everybody.

I don't make things that aesthetically are not pleasing and functionally not sound (well designed), regardless how practical purpose they serve, so am pretty sure that once you see it, you guys might like it. :).

M

PS: Adam, good timing. I am working on your wooden saya right now.

cookinstuff
10-07-2013, 03:53 PM
I was hinting at totally ripping off your ideas once you have done all your usual research on the forum :rofl2:. In all honesty though, I have enjoyed making the leather ones in my spare time. I needed something for a few knives, it certainly does the job better than edge guards, and they look a lot better as well. Even my amateur ones, they are very sturdy.

Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 04:15 PM
Sure, copy as much as you want, you would still do same work I do. :D

pleue
10-07-2013, 04:27 PM
I like the look of leather sayas. I plan on convincing my girlfriend to do one or two for me (she has already made me two hand stitched knife rolls (1 was stolen)). They can look very nice, there was a western handled fowler in the classifieds with a saya that comes to mind as one of the nicest I've seen if you're looking for design ideas.

toddnmd
10-07-2013, 04:54 PM
I'd be interested in a leather saya or two. As long as the blade is protected, I'd prefer to save money over wood (and shipping a knife back and forth certainly adds to the cost).

Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 05:17 PM
These will be made of 8-9oz leather, so they will be stiff and thick (like wood sayas), and with a lock to keep the knife in place, so rest assured about the protection. Nice leather finish and contrast stitching will be the icing on the cake.

WildBoar
10-07-2013, 06:17 PM
I like the leather ones. I would prefer them to wood sayas for most knives I might take with me to someone else's house.

ecchef
10-07-2013, 07:43 PM
I'd like to see a leather saya option.

Lefty
10-07-2013, 08:35 PM
Great, now I have to learn to do leather-working.... :D

In all honesty, I am kidding, and there's zero "rivalry" between Marko and I. He's been insanely helpful with everything I ask.

ecchef
10-07-2013, 08:53 PM
Can I get one to go with my 225? :D

Marko Tsourkan
10-07-2013, 09:08 PM
Can I get one to go with my 225? :D

I think so. I am looking for a leather sawing machine now, but as soon as I get it, I will start learning leather skills.

M

brainsausage
10-07-2013, 11:24 PM
I'm interested. Love the wooded sayas, but they pretty bulky when you have a bunch of them side by side in a roll/bag. Leather would be lower profile. And cool looking:D

don
10-07-2013, 11:46 PM
I'm interested :)

tkern
10-08-2013, 01:23 AM
I'm interested. Love the wooded sayas, but they pretty bulky when you have a bunch of them side by side in a roll/bag. Leather would be lower profile. D

I agree.

Marko Tsourkan
10-08-2013, 08:47 AM
I'm interested. Love the wooded sayas, but they pretty bulky when you have a bunch of them side by side in a roll/bag. Leather would be lower profile. And cool looking:D

Thickness-wise leather sayas will be slightly thinner, around 10mm, while my wooden sayas are about 12-13mm. There will be a strap on the leather saya to keep the knife secured.

Pensacola Tiger
10-08-2013, 09:23 AM
I'm interested. Love the wooded sayas, but they pretty bulky when you have a bunch of them side by side in a roll/bag. Leather would be lower profile. And cool looking:D

A leather sheath also has the advantage that it won't crack if the roll is accidentally compressed, as has happened to a couple of mine.

brainsausage
10-08-2013, 11:05 AM
A leather sheath also has the advantage that it won't crack if the roll is accidentally compressed, as has happened to a couple of mine.

Yikes! Haven't encountered that yet. Although I do sometimes worry about shifting and my edges rubbing against the sayas. Not all sayas are made as well as Marko's after all(in fact few are in my experience).

swarth
10-08-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm interested in all of your work...but cant seem to get your shopping cart to work or a response from you. Shame really.

cheflarge
10-08-2013, 02:37 PM
I would definetly be interested in some leather sayas. Especially if they don't "scratch" the blade.

bahamaroot
10-08-2013, 09:59 PM
I would love leather sayas for some of my knives!

Marko Tsourkan
10-10-2013, 08:43 AM
Hey Folks, need some more of your attention.

I have done some research and I think I would like to go ahead with the leatherworking project: sayas and soon thereafter - knife and accessories rolls. The cost of buying tools/machinery is quite high, so I would like to get a better idea how much demand is there.

The cost of saya will be $.27 for basic and up to $1/mm for an upgraded version, depending on a level of difficulty and time involvement. For example, custom inlays, pressed work, custom colors will put the cost in the upper range. Also, cleaver sayas will be priced differently (Price TBD). Orders over $70 will ship for free.

The way it would work is the following. Once you place an order, I will send you some template material on which to outline your knife profile. Once I get the outlines back from you, I will make templates to which the sayas will be fitted. If you prefer to send in your knives for fitting, that would be fine.

Essentially, these will be custom sayas. I will make them available in three basic colors - dark brown, black and cognac and would also do custom colors upon request. There will be a contrast stitching (unless requested differently) and a strap with a snap to keep the knife in place. The quality of workmanship is to exceed expectations.

Please fill out the form below and indicate price range and quantity you would be interested. I have some upcoming equipment purchases for my shop unrelated to leatherworking, so I have to tread lightly taking on a new project/cost.

As always, Thank You!

http://www.tsourkanknives.com/index.php/surveys/leather-saya-survey-order

Marko Tsourkan
10-10-2013, 09:50 AM
I am thinking making sayas in these colors. What do you guys think? I can also make them in natural (vegetable tanned) leather, but coloring might be nicer.

Amber
19288

Dark Brown
19289

Black
19290

Cognac
19291

CoqaVin
10-10-2013, 09:56 AM
I am thinking making sayas in these colors. What do you guys think? I can also make them in natural (vegetable tanned) leather, but coloring might be nicer.

Amber
19288

Dark Brown
19289

Black
19290

Cognac
19291

Look cool like the Amber...how long for these have a couple knives in need

Marko Tsourkan
10-10-2013, 10:03 AM
It will probably be a month or so to get this project of the ground.

NO ChoP!
10-10-2013, 10:05 AM
A drawback to wood sayas in a bag is that the pins can scratch other sayas. I recall reading about something in tanned leather deteriorating edges. Anyone have info on this, or is it an old wives tale? I do look forward to seeing some of these. The contrasting stitching sounds cool.

Marko Tsourkan
10-10-2013, 10:12 AM
I think the safest leather to use is vegetable tanned tool leather, and do the coloring on the outside only. That's basically my intention. I would not use any acid tanned leather for the sayas, as those could in theory (and possibly in practice) corrode carbon blades.
I will use the tanned leather for the knife rolls though, but knives in those will be stored in their individual sayas (wood or leather), so there will no direct contact with roll leather.

Thanks for the tip on pins scratching. I will look into that.

M

CoqaVin
10-10-2013, 10:27 AM
I think the safest leather to use is vegetable tanned tool leather, and do the coloring on the outside only. That's basically my intention. I would not use any acid tanned leather for the sayas, as those could in theory (and possibly in practice) corrode carbon blades.
I will use the tanned leather for the knife rolls though, but knives in those will be stored in their individual sayas (wood or leather), so there will no direct contact with roll leather.

Thanks for the tip on pins scratching. I will look into that.

M

I am just looking forward to this for my other knives coming in....my custom will have a wood saya thats for sure...Whats the list for like on wooden sayas im still a couple months out on my custom

cookinstuff
10-10-2013, 11:34 PM
I use 9oz vegetable tan leather, and the edges getting bent are the last thing you need to worry about. It's thick grade leather, that will basically get better with age as long as it is weather proofed. You can bevel the edges, but I haven't seen the need to on any of mine. I have kept my blades in the leather sheaths for some time, (I know I'm not supposed to, they can rust). I have a really reactive kuro ichi steel knife that I wouldn't use as a line knife because it's a bit too reactive, but it has no problems being stored in the leather as long as it's dry. (I have polished this blade numerous times, so I am hardly concerned about finding rust on it, so you might want to be wary if you don't feel you can fix the problem if it happens) At the same time, I feel the plastic edge guards with the little bit of felt on the inside is MUCH worse for trapping moisture and rusting knives out in your kit overnight.

Also, I agree with pins scratching sayas my Gengetsu saya looks like it's been hammered like a copper pot it's got so many indentations on it. I also get black marks from my mac bread knife handle on sayas, so I put it in my utility pouch. I like the slimmer profile of the leather, too bad I have Pirate tendencies and keep putting belt loops on mine, they don't exactly save space with belt loops hehe. Good luck with the new venture Marko, hope you are successful and find some enjoyment working another material, hmmm wood, steel, leather, you gonna start sewing egyptian cotton chef jackets next, or starting a farm, hehe have fun!

420layersofdank
10-10-2013, 11:49 PM
Hope this is helpful marko!
http://beebeknives.com/html/make_a_sheath_tutorial.html

NO ChoP!
10-11-2013, 07:47 AM
I'll take 3 chef coats...

Marko Tsourkan
10-11-2013, 08:43 AM
... hmmm wood, steel, leather, you gonna start sewing egyptian cotton chef jackets next, or starting a farm, hehe have fun!

Yep, farming is next. :D

Marko Tsourkan
10-11-2013, 09:05 AM
I understand that the price of the leather sayas might be higher than people expected, however, I had to factor in the cost of equipment, materials, additional overhead for an extra room I would need to rent (adding to my already high overhead), and cost of labor. I might discount a few of the first ones, but these are the prices I have to charge to be able to make this project work.

I removed a few fields from the survey form (http://www.tsourkanknives.com/index.php/surveys/leather-saya-survey-order), so now it is just a survey on preferences. There is no obligation whatsoever for those of you who chime in (as with all of my products). If you like the sayas once I produce them, you can always give them another look.

Here are the colors that I like. Would like to hear your opinion on these. I think they can be matched to the handle material color. Natural color will also be an option.

Black
19299

Cognac
19300

Dark Brown
19301

Amber
19302

cookinstuff
10-11-2013, 09:39 AM
Those are some nice looking colours, I really like the cognac and amber.

CoqaVin
10-11-2013, 10:44 AM
I understand that the price of the leather sayas might be higher than people expected, however, I had to factor in the cost of equipment, materials, additional overhead for an extra room I would need to rent (adding to my already high overhead), and cost of labor. I might discount a few of the first ones, but these are the prices I have to charge to be able to make this project work.

I removed a few fields from the survey form (http://www.tsourkanknives.com/index.php/surveys/leather-saya-survey-order), so now it is just a survey on preferences. There is no obligation whatsoever for those of you who chime in (as with all of my products). If you like the sayas once I produce them, you can always give them another look.

Here are the colors that I like. Would like to hear your opinion on these. I think they can be matched to the handle material color. Natural color will also be an option.

Black
19299

Cognac
19300

Dark Brown
19301

Amber
19302


If I just filled out the survey/order form what does that mean now?

Marko Tsourkan
10-11-2013, 10:49 AM
This gives me an idea on your (and hopefully others) preferences for look, design and and other characteristics, so I can plan accordingly. Once I start making those if you like them how they look in person, you will be welcome to commission some.

This surveys are mostly for me to better understand the preferences, so I can make product as close to what people want as possible. I have done this for all products (including knives) that I produced.

M

toddnmd
02-08-2014, 02:19 PM
Marko, any updates on this?

Marko Tsourkan
02-08-2014, 02:31 PM
I took some time off while channeling all my time into western handles and change in my grinds for this type, but I am finally at a good stopping point to go back to leather. I think I will shipping sayas within a couple of weeks.


Marko

V1P
02-08-2014, 03:19 PM
Marko,

Wanna do one sheath for the knife below?

It is with Dave now after a spa treatment. It is going to be shipped to me in Australia but I can wait if you can do one quickly. I understand if you are too busy.

Pls let me know, thanks.

Ferry

V1P
02-08-2014, 03:21 PM
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr106/B_390_LU/B33D6D1A-24E9-4380-A4F6-8BEB5179A05B.jpg