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peterm
06-09-2011, 08:57 AM
Hi all,

Thanks to the couple threads talking about Ashi's cleavers, I'm thinking of ordering one myself. They offer a stainless (apparently AEBL) or a carbon (white #2) option, and I've got to pick one. The stainless is hardened to 60 while the carbon is 61-62. I have no experience with white #2 or with AEBL. Anyone used the two steel types and have any opinions?
Thanks!

MadMel
06-09-2011, 09:19 AM
AEB-L is the steel that Hoss uses for his baldes. I can't remember hearing anything bad about his knives. u can read what he says here: http://www.devinthomas.com/faq.cfm

99Limited
06-09-2011, 09:38 AM
Seems to me all you need to decide on is if you want a clever that can develop a nice patina or a SS piece which won't. Other than that you've got a win/win choice to make.

chefofthefuture
06-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Has it been confirmed that Ashi uses AEB-L? If so, does the Gesshin line they make use the same steel?

I hate when companies say "INOX" or "SWEDISH STEEL" or just "STAINLESS STEEL." It hardly narrows down what steel they use. If they're using a good quality steel, why don't they just advertise it? When I am paying $200+ for a knife, I'd like to know what steel their using.

If you went out to eat and saw a steak on the menu for $50, you'd probably pass it over. But, if someone said it was Wagyu beef... then you'd be at least tempted to order it. right?

Seb
06-10-2011, 09:40 AM
The standard Ashi Ginga stainless is about 59 - they raised it from 58 not long ago, I'm told. DrNaka announced at FF some time ago that he had been told by Ashi that the stainless is in fact AEB-L. However, you can custom-order the stainless up to 61.

I have used both steel types and I say go with White#2 - the edge it takes is just phenomenal. It will blow your mind!

Oh, I should mention that I have the Ashi Ginga Chuka #6 (220x110x2.0mm) in White#2 I ordered through Bluewayjapan.

peterm
06-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Thanks for the advice! How are you liking yours Seb? I saw you seemed to enjoy it in another thread. I was planning on getting it slightly less tall and nice and thin.

tk59
06-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Ashi/Gesshin Ginga through Jon is the same steel hardened to 61 hrc. AEB-L is good stuff.

Seb
06-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the advice! How are you liking yours Seb? I saw you seemed to enjoy it in another thread. I was planning on getting it slightly less tall and nice and thin.

I like it a lot but for everyday use I think I would prefer something "slightly less tall and nice and thin". :)

My standard #6 is already quite thin but Mainaman's custom has a really nice distal taper.

I was toying with the idea of getting one in Swedish stainless at 60 but I am leaning back towards the White#2: sharper and easier to sharpen.

Ducman
04-21-2015, 01:23 AM
The standard Ashi Ginga stainless is about 59 - they raised it from 58 not long ago, I'm told. DrNaka announced at FF some time ago that he had been told by Ashi that the stainless is in fact AEB-L. However, you can custom-order the stainless up to 61.

This thread suggests AEB-L is the specific type of steel used by Ashi Hamono in their stainless Ginga line of knives.
I'm interested in the specific type of stainless steel used by Ashi Hamono in the Gesshin Ginga line of knives they produce. I know it's a fine grained Swedish steel, would be nice to know specifically, if one were to spend the bucks. I know it's a quality & well liked knive with highly respected people behind it, which is a big value add for me. I just have the desire to know as knives are a hobby and it helps me compare how different blade steels and heat treatments meet my needs.

I speculate it is not 19C27 as it is not as fine grained as the other common Sandvik steels such as 12C27 and 13C26. 13C27 and AEB-L are reputed to be the same steel, just made by different companies, both razor blade steels.

19C27 has a "coarse carbide grade, unlike the other Sandvik knife steel grades." And "Sandvik 19C27 is suitable for industrial blades for cutting tough or/and abrasive materials." Reference :
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/sandvik-19c27/

12C27 and 13C26 (thus AEB-L) are more suitable for personal use knives as shown in the chart at the bottom on this reference: http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/

Does anyone know or can anyone speculate/rule anything in or out?

banjo1071
04-21-2015, 02:19 AM
Its not the steel, its the maker! They are not more than funfacts, because it ist the HT, that makes the carbides.

Ducman
04-21-2015, 02:37 AM
Its not the steel, its the maker! They are not more than funfacts, because it ist the HT, that makes the carbides.

Agreed, the heat treatment is key, assuming you start with an acceptable steel. I believe the steel used is a brand name steel and more than acceptable. Heat treatment info will be guarded for good reason so the steel will also play an important role.

I'm just a bit inquisitive, it's better than being the person who thinks henckels makes the best knives or that rolex makes the best watch.

alterwisser
04-21-2015, 04:22 AM
This thread suggests AEB-L is the specific type of steel used by Ashi Hamono in their stainless Ginga line of knives.
I'm interested in the specific type of stainless steel used by Ashi Hamono in the Gesshin Ginga line of knives they produce. I know it's a fine grained Swedish steel, would be nice to know specifically, if one were to spend the bucks. I know it's a quality & well liked knive with highly respected people behind it, which is a big value add for me. I just have the desire to know as knives are a hobby and it helps me compare how different blade steels and heat treatments meet my needs.

I speculate it is not 19C27 as it is not as fine grained as the other common Sandvik steels such as 12C27 and 13C26. 13C27 and AEB-L are reputed to be the same steel, just made by different companies, both razor blade steels.

19C27 has a "coarse carbide grade, unlike the other Sandvik knife steel grades." And "Sandvik 19C27 is suitable for industrial blades for cutting tough or/and abrasive materials." Reference :
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/sandvik-19c27/

12C27 and 13C26 (thus AEB-L) are more suitable for personal use knives as shown in the chart at the bottom on this reference: http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/sandvik-knife-steels/

Does anyone know or can anyone speculate/rule anything in or out?

Did you contact them? I'm pretty sure he'll tell you which steel they use.

Let me put it this way: I contacted then before, using my work email (which happens to be a @sandvik.com one) and that triggered a certain reaction [emoji6]

daveb
04-21-2015, 08:42 AM
This discussion pops up pretty frequently, takes one or two predictable paths, and finally fizzles. Usually not fast enough.

I've worked in weapon system acquisition for the military most of my adult life. I've no problem with proprietary materials or proprietary processes. My only concern is does the end item perform to specification.

And I always think of Luke and David at Bloodroot when these discussions come up. They are very forthcoming; this knife was made from part of a tractor plow, a railroad spike and a leaf spring from a 63 Dodge. And people (including me if I can find the coin) line up to get them. It's the maker.

Ashai has made a knife or two. The ones I've used I've liked. Is there still a question?

alterwisser
04-21-2015, 10:33 AM
This discussion pops up pretty frequently, takes one or two predictable paths, and finally fizzles. Usually not fast enough.

I've worked in weapon system acquisition for the military most of my adult life. I've no problem with proprietary materials or proprietary processes. My only concern is does the end item perform to specification.

And I always think of Luke and David at Bloodroot when these discussions come up. They are very forthcoming; this knife was made from part of a tractor plow, a railroad spike and a leaf spring from a 63 Dodge. And people (including me if I can find the coin) line up to get them. It's the maker.

Ashai has made a knife or two. The ones I've used I've liked. Is there still a question?

Amen!

chiffonodd
04-21-2015, 12:05 PM
I recently got a (Gesshin) Ashi Ginga gyuto in W#2 and really enjoy it - feels very silky smooth. A good part of that is probably the geometry of the knife, but I do believe that the fine grain structure of the steel contributes to the feeling. I have used it a handful of times now with no apparent edge degradation or chipping. My sense is that 60 - 61 HrC is a real sweet spot.

All that said, Jon told me that there really isn't much of a difference between the W2 and the stainless in these knives in terms of performance. So like others have said above, it probably comes down to your personal preference on patina.

Unless the cleaver is a whole different story :)