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Eamon Burke
06-09-2011, 06:03 PM
I have to take a moment to say, I love that this site doesn't mark posts as edited!

When it does, it really drives me nuts because I wind up editing almost every post and comment, even if I proofread it and preview.


See what I mean?! I had to edit this one even! Criminey!

Dave Martell
06-09-2011, 08:35 PM
I know that annoys the crap out of me too.

JohnnyChance
06-10-2011, 12:57 AM
Can you make it so the person who started the thread can edit the first post even after people post in the thread? It is handy for informational/faq/link database type threads where you want to add info to the first page. Or if you dont to or cant enable it, can I PM a mod to be able to do this if needed?


And an edit: I love love love the quick reply box. Basically, well done on the look of the site Dave. The other place literally hurts my eyes now.

Potato42
06-10-2011, 01:28 AM
Yeah I have found that after turning 30 this year *gasp* I screw up way more often when typing things out than ever before. I completely miss words, I type the wrong word spelled correctly so I don't pick up on it unless i proofread carefully, and random letters find themselves in the middle of my typing.

I agree with Johnny, at least being able to edit a first post would be nice for certain threads. The only other option is a mod. Dave do you have any more mods other than Ryan and Jim?

Dave Martell
06-10-2011, 11:09 AM
I've thought about this editing thing a bit mostly for the vendors being able to change a listing but I'm not loving the idea of allowing posts to be modified after a certain time. I'd prefer to have members PM a mod and have them make a change if necessary, I think this is do-able since the volume would be low I'm sure.

We also have Jay as a mod too. To see the mod list you can click on the "View Site Leaders" button at the bottom of the forum listings page.

Glad to hear that you guys like the set up here. I really got lucky with this software, I just picked it because it was popular.

jheis
10-09-2011, 10:18 PM
I think this is the only forum I regularly visit that doesn't allow the OP to edit their own posts (after, I think 15 minutes?).

I often don't notice a typo, missing word, extra word, etc., until I re-read a post a day or two later. It sure would be nice to be able to correct my own mistakes when I catch then - instead of being memorialized as an idiot for all time....

James

mr drinky
10-09-2011, 10:23 PM
I love love love the quick reply box.

I do too, but I don't like it when I accidentally hit the "reply to thread" button instead and erases everything in the quick reply.

k.

Dave Martell
10-09-2011, 10:44 PM
I think this is the only forum I regularly visit that doesn't allow the OP to edit their own posts (after, I think 15 minutes?).

I often don't notice a typo, missing word, extra word, etc., until I re-read a post a day or two later. It sure would be nice to be able to correct my own mistakes when I catch then - instead of being memorialized as an idiot for all time....

James


There's all sorts of reasons why someone would edit a post besides grammatical mistakes. If unlimited editing were allowed can you imagine how often posts would be changed? Imagine then the effect of someone reading a post a year later with things missing or moved around. This is a can of worms that's best left unopened. I think 15 min is enough time to re-read a post and make the necessary changes.

SpikeC
10-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Right on, Dave.

jheis
10-11-2011, 10:50 PM
I respectfully disagree.

I can't think of a single good reason why the original poster cannot edit their own posts. If it's after a day or two (or 15 minutes), fine - mark it as having been edited.

Much of my work involves writing and, in my experience, if you think you can proof read your own writing immediately upon completion you are seriously deluded. I find it absolutely necessary to put my work product aside for a day or two and then re-read it to find all the typo's, missing words, extra words, that I missed the first dozen times I re-read it. Your mind tends to fill in the blanks. Much of the writing on the internet is dreck because few bother to edit their work.

Future readers are not mindless - but, of course, it's not my site.

James

Vertigo
10-11-2011, 11:34 PM
I agree with you, James. With the exception of a sale thread, where you might want to preserve the terms of the sale, I don't see any reason why a post can't be edited. People change their minds about things, they regret the way they phrased things, they re-read a thread six months later and see embarrassing typographical errors.


There's all sorts of reasons why someone would edit a post besides grammatical mistakes.

Name three.

Dave Martell
10-11-2011, 11:46 PM
Embarressment
Regret
Sadness
Drugs
Drinking
Stupidity
Fighting
Obnoxiousness

add
10-11-2011, 11:47 PM
I think this is the only forum I regularly visit that doesn't allow the OP to edit their own posts (after, I think 15 minutes?).

I often don't notice a typo, missing word, extra word, etc., until I re-read a post a day or two later. It sure would be nice to be able to correct my own mistakes when I catch then - instead of being memorialized as an idiot for all time....

James


I respectfully disagree.

I can't think of a single good reason why the original poster cannot edit their own posts. If it's after a day or two (or 15 minutes), fine - mark it as having been edited.

Much of my work involves writing and, in my experience, if you think you can proof read your own writing immediately upon completion you are seriously deluded. I find it absolutely necessary to put my work product aside for a day or two and then re-read it to find all the typo's, missing words, extra words, that I missed the first dozen times I re-read it. Your mind tends to fill in the blanks. Much of the writing on the internet is dreck because few bother to edit their work.

Future readers are not mindless - but, of course, it's not my site.

James

Editing in threads, imho, can easily be abused (at times for self serving purposes). It can also make reading or rereading a thread extremely confusing when done en masse.

I think Dave alludes correctly to both of these instances.

On larger forums, you will see folks use the quote function just to head off posters who chronically go back and edit their posts for the above reasons. Keeps em honest so to speak...

Me think one may doth protest too much ?

Say it now Dave, "It's Good to Be The King". :happymug:

Vertigo
10-11-2011, 11:58 PM
Embarressment
Regret
Sadness
Drugs
Drinking
Stupidity
Fighting
Obnoxiousness

I'm sorry Dave, I meant name three reasons where being able to edit the post in retrospect would somehow negatively impact the board, to justify the fact that we have a 15 minute timer. Not just reasons why people would edit the post, those are kinda gimmies. I mean, you feel some need to make sure people's stupidity is preserved on the internet forever?


Editing in threads, imho, can easily be abused (at times for self serving purposes).
I've been using BBSs since 1992 or so, and have maybe seen it abused twice. This is a boogeyman. It's not actually real. Who the hell goes out of their way to edit posts in a malicious manner? I mean seriously. Erasing the dumb stuff you wrote when you're drunk isn't abusing anything, it's saving some of your dignity.


It can also make reading or rereading a thread extremely confusing when done en masse.
Who edits their posts en masse? I mean seriously. This is just another boogeyman. You have one person every three years decide they want to redact their contributions to the site and remove their old content--life goes on. The minor inconvenience of that is hardly on par to the endless inconvenience of using a written medium to communicate and being unable to edit what you write.

Eamon Burke
10-12-2011, 12:06 AM
It is REALLY annoying when you can miss out on conversations entirely because people go back and decide they are going to edit what they said or delete posts, etc.

Really annoying. It removes all accountability for what you post, and allows for the internet equivalent of gossipy squabbling.

If it's a typo, nobody is going to hate you for it. If it's a serious mistake(like an inaccurate listing in B/S/T, or a miswording that makes a knife review confusing), you can ask a mod! The forever editing feature usually just turns forums into LiveJournal.

Dave Martell
10-12-2011, 12:14 AM
I've seen the open ended edit feature trash forum content. I say that people should pause before typing, think about what they want to convey, and then say what they mean and mean what they say.

Dave Martell
10-12-2011, 12:22 AM
I mean, you feel some need to make sure people's stupidity is preserved on the internet forever?




Jack, you should know me better than that.

Vertigo
10-12-2011, 12:33 AM
It is REALLY annoying when you can miss out on conversations entirely because people go back and decide they are going to edit what they said or delete posts, etc.

Really annoying. It removes all accountability for what you post, and allows for the internet equivalent of gossipy squabbling.
As a wordsmith yourself I'm surprised to find you in favor of edit limits, but that's cool. To be quite honest, the fact that you demand permanent access to the drunken, stupid mistakes people make is a lot more voyeuristic and "gossipy" than these fantasy people who spew nonsense on the internet knowing they can go back and edit it later.


I've seen the open ended edit feature trash forum content.
I'm not gonna say "no you haven't," but I'd love to take a tour of these message boards that have been reduced to rubble by a rampaging horde of rapscallions and their ill-intentioned erasers. For the record, Foodie Forums has open editing and they have six years of perfectly scrutable posts. With the exception of KC's, of course.


Jack, you should know me better than that.
Haha, and you should be tired of editing my posts for me! Just let me do it myself, Dave. :P

jheis
10-12-2011, 03:03 AM
Embarressment
Regret
Sadness
Drugs
Drinking
Stupidity
Fighting
Obnoxiousness

Why are these not reason to edit a Post?

If I remember correctly, this site was initiated because of your complaints of those things occurring on another site. Sometimes the better part of valor is to bite your tongue.... It seems you have proven my point.

Constructive criticism should be accepted as constructive - not denigrated.

James

add
10-12-2011, 04:46 AM
I've been using BBSs since 1992 or so, and have maybe seen it abused twice. This is a boogeyman. It's not actually real. Who the hell goes out of their way to edit posts in a malicious manner? I mean seriously. Erasing the dumb stuff you wrote when you're drunk isn't abusing anything, it's saving some of your dignity.


Who edits their posts en masse? I mean seriously. This is just another boogeyman. You have one person every three years decide they want to redact their contributions to the site and remove their old content--life goes on. The minor inconvenience of that is hardly on par to the endless inconvenience of using a written medium to communicate and being unable to edit what you write.

No boogiemen, it happens and not that infrequently on the largest knife forum. Not just by joe poster either. Makers and dealers have done it.

Reputations and $$$ at stake.

I have witnessed a few as they happened. Search if you care enough or pm me.

Personally, I don't see it as a looming issue on a smaller, well run, niche forum such as this one... but it may be as simple as a less than honest seller changing a description after a sale.


It's the internet, so you posted something stoopid or the spel check/gramma police iz after you. ***
Join the club!

* ...edited for content :D

Cipcich
10-12-2011, 07:03 AM
Having recently gone off on an alcohol-induced tangent, I wish I could delete some of my posts.
Nevertheless, on the most basic level, I agree with Dave.
Be prepared to live with what you say, or keep your mouth shut. If you really care about what people think of you, you might consider drafting and reviewing your remarks before you post them.

mr drinky
10-12-2011, 10:36 AM
Having recently gone off on an alcohol-induced tangent, I wish I could delete some of my posts.

Don't worry, all of our alcohol-enhanced posts will pale in comparison to Oivind's where he could barely type and still posted that he was a lesbian from his iPhone (see below). It is when you drunken PM people and buy knives -- that is when the problems develop.


Im female and also a lesbian. Im also very drunk now and on my iPhone :)


Woha!

Sorrry for be9ing drunk and posting1
My GF is on a vacation and Im alone homeee nad drunk :)
Gonna stop readduing on the forum and go too bed now. Just wanted to vheck in to see if everyone was ok :)
Seee you all tomorroew :)
Paryt on!!! :)

Dave Martell
10-12-2011, 11:45 AM
Why are these not reason to edit a Post?

If I remember correctly, this site was initiated because of your complaints of those things occurring on another site. Sometimes the better part of valor is to bite your tongue.... It seems you have proven my point.

Constructive criticism should be accepted as constructive - not denigrated.

James


James, I did not mean to offend and I offer my sincerest apologies to yourself and Jack if I have done so.

I hope that we can always talk here at KKF openly about changes and improvements to the site but please understand that not everything can or will be changed and not always can a reason be given. People should always feel welcome to post constructive comments but we all have to understand that sometimes we can't get what we want, myself included, what's done is for the greater good of the long term growth of the community.

Vertigo
10-12-2011, 12:48 PM
I can't speak for James but I'm not offended in the least, Dave. What ultimately annoys me about the policy is that, as a writer, I value my words and dislike losing control over them. I understand that any content we contribute to this site is no longer our property once we click the "submit" button, and I understand that you want to protect this uncompensated content from the hysterical mass-editing Keyser Söze everyone keeps mentioning. Being aware of those things, though, doesn't make them less frustrating.

Beyond the ownership rights, it's also a seemingly arbitrary denial of our right to privacy: sober and thoughtful, irritated and rash, drunk and stupid we put our necks out to contribute to your site and, for no reason beyond Keyser Söze's looming eraser, we're unable to pull our neck back in (despite the option being readily available and frequently employed on other forums).

So no, I'm not offended, it's just something that frustrates me and I figured this was an appropriate thread in which to vocalize it. Life moves on, I'll let the matter rest.

Cheers,

-Jack

Eamon Burke
10-12-2011, 05:20 PM
As a wordsmith yourself I'm surprised to find you in favor of edit limits, but that's cool. To be quite honest, the fact that you demand permanent access to the drunken, stupid mistakes people make is a lot more voyeuristic and "gossipy" than these fantasy people who spew nonsense on the internet knowing they can go back and edit it later.


Well, I did start this thread to rave about how much I love that nobody can see that I edit almost every.single.post. It's one of the great things about the internet, the lack of L'esprit de l'escalier. Unfortunately for those who dabble in emotional communication and ego-bound expression, communication is irreversible--you can never really undo or alter what is already expressed, only add to it. Even deleting it altogether is a new, additional act of expression regarding the original content.

I would link you to some great examples of why forever editing is a bad idea, but it would be on LiveJournal. I used to keep in touch with friends via LiveJournal, back before Facebook was open to the public, and it became very insular--there are those who get on LiveJournal and read obsessively, and those that miss out on what is being discussed because someone got offended, or changed their minds, etc. Everyone was just trying to keep in touch with each other, and it became known for "drama".

The end result of forever editing is a false sense of recourse and a lackadaisical attitude toward your role in the post itself--if the message is decoded improperly, not only can you clarify it to the parties interested, but you can synthesize time travel by actually altering the original message. It may be cathartic for you, but it is ineffectual, because what was written has already been written and read.

The point is, if it is even moderately important, the moderators will be happy to oblige and change critical wording for you. If it is personal, social, or emotional, editing the posts will not in fact change what has already happened, even in regards to a future audience, and will only serve to reduce remorse carried in the ego of those who feel guilty or ashamed of their own behavior.

SpikeC
10-12-2011, 10:38 PM
Write what you mean and mean what you write.

JohnnyChance
10-13-2011, 12:34 AM
Ehh, we are talking about knives, not writing a piece of legislature or negotiating a business deal. I understand that you cherish your words, but it's a knife forum, it's not that serious, people will forgive you for misspelled word or incorrect grammar on occasion.

I also get annoyed when I think I have composed a perfect (especially if lengthy) post and then later notice I have some small mistake. But, in the end, not that big of a deal. If it is really bugging you, feel free to PM me and I will change it for you.

Vertigo
10-13-2011, 05:06 AM
Ehh, we are talking about knives, not writing a piece of legislature or negotiating a business deal. I understand that you cherish your words, but it's a knife forum, it's not that serious
Explaining how our posts are just inconsequential chatter is an argument for letting people edit in retrospect, Johnny. I said my piece and told myself not to keep rattling this rather trivial cage with my unpopular opinion, but c'mon man. That's a freebie. ;)