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View Full Version : Japanese or North American - who makes a better knife?



Josh
06-12-2011, 10:12 AM
When I started learning and collecting kitchen knives, I thought only of purchasing Japanese knives. The discussions were explicitly "J-Knife" with the odd comments towards German and French makers.

In the last couple of years of reading posts, and taking a step back to watch trends every now and then, I've noticed a shift - at least in this forum - towards North American made knives. There's no 700 year history and generation after generation of secrets being passed down within a family - a lot of the fine work I've seen is the result of real-world collaboration. Congrats by the way for the folks that make these things happen -

So - My question - where do the best knives of the world come from - if you had $1000 to $1500 to buy the best knife you could for the money - who would make it?

oivind_dahle
06-12-2011, 10:25 AM
American, no questions asked! :)

tk59
06-12-2011, 10:44 AM
There's only a handful of people around here that can possibly answer that one and I don't think you're one of them, OD. :poke1:

That said, I'm spending my first $1k+ on an American made knife.

Pensacola Tiger
06-12-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't own a Kramer or a Burke, but based on the knives I do own, I'd have to give the nod to Michael Rader.

Rick

Marko Tsourkan
06-12-2011, 10:57 AM
Hype, Myths, Fit and Finish aside, a top quality knife should perform well in three areas: sharpness, edge retention and edge stability (resistance to chipping). A choice of steel and proper heat treatment will greatly affect a knife's performance. Makers like Thomas, Burke, Kramer pay great deal of attention to heat treating while also preferring alloyed steel like 52100 to simple carbon steels like W2 (similar to Japanese white and blue steels). The resulting knives feature fine grain structure, excellent edge retention and excellent edge stability. I think Collin has had an opportunity to use knives made by top American and Japanese makers in pro kitchen, and he can chime in.

For me personally, it comes down to two things: tradition vs performance. Which one is better? It is up to a buyer to decide. I go for performance. For one thing, I don't have to deal with deburring as much.

M

euphorbioid
06-12-2011, 11:02 AM
So - My question - where do the best knives of the world come from - if you had $1000 to $1500 to buy the best knife you could for the money - who would make it?

Doesn't the answer depend on what you mean by best knife? Sorta like asking what is the best car - do you want to go real fast or ride in extreme comfort - two different cars, two different "best" cars.

For my money I would go with a boutique Japanese maker of the type Jon Broida deals with. But the history of the craft, as you pointed out, is important to me. If I was looking for a flashy knife with cool damascus steel and all the trimmings, definitely American.

mainaman
06-12-2011, 11:52 AM
One man's best knife is another mans average knife.
It is a matter of preference, I am sure you can get good knives from each side of the ocean.
I know I like convex grinds, whoever makes them does not matter as long as they are done right.

Cadillac J
06-12-2011, 11:57 AM
Personally, I never considered a "j-knife" to necessarily have to be made in Japan, but the styling that defines it into this category.

DT ITKs were made in America by Devin, but mimicked Japanese gyuto designs, and gyutos in themselves are Japanese versions of western-styled knives...so it seems to come around full circle.

The North American makers have been putting out some phenomenal work in the last year, and are definitely at the forefront of everyone's lists who is looking for a custom, but that isn't to say they are overall better than Japanese makers.

After much trial and error over the years, I've found the 'best' knife for me to be Konosuke (or other super thin knives) that really aren't fancy at all.

oivind_dahle
06-12-2011, 12:41 PM
I rather blow 3k on a Burke over 1k on a Shigefusa :)

Lefty
06-12-2011, 12:58 PM
I'm with Caddy on his definition of "J-knife". It is in the styling, not necessarily where it was produced that makes a knife a j-knife.
I've been very fortunate in that i've been able to handle knives of all many different makers, countries and styles. I remember when I was first trying the j knives on for size, a member who I can't recall said if I find j-knives impressive, I should wait until I try a "Western custom". Of course, with my new gyuto in hand, I believed the man to be crazy.
However, based on what I have used (nothing in the broad spectrum, but more than most will in a long time), I'm giving a definite nod to North American makers.
I think the advantage is that our knifemaking friends around here are always learning, always working to improve and always modifying certain aspects to find an improvement anywhere they can. The proof is in the Rodrigue, Rader and Fowler passarounds. These guys are at the top of the game, and they still want MORE!
Tradition can work against the Japanese makers as easily as it can help them. If you don't like a bolster shape on Heiji, well you just might have to suck it up and marvel at the other beautiful details of the knife, and it's pure cutting pleasure.
So the question is, "Tradition or Innovation-which breeds a better knife"?
Put it this way. I currently have a Konosuke gyuto, in my kitchen, that makes me smile every time I touch it, but I keep reaching for my Carter, and praying for an email from Pierre saying my knife is ready!

JohnnyChance
06-12-2011, 01:18 PM
I think they are nearly impossible to compare directly. Apples and oranges as they say. Not because of how they are made or style or whatever, but because of their price points and target markets. There are basically 2 kinds of kitchen knives that are made in America. Super ****** Lamson/Chicago Cutlery type stuff that every knife service uses to supply house knives to restaurants, and full blown customs. I do not believe there is any decent, mid range kitchen knife mass produced in North America. In Japan, you have tons of manufacturers who make a lot of great knives in decent quantities. There are super cheap ones too, so I suppose you could compare low end American to low end Japanese, but what's the point? What is the western equivalent of a Konosuke, Artisugu, Hiromoto, Tojiro, Shigefusa, etc? There really isn't anything in that $100-400 range. The DT ITK line and some of Murray Carter's knives are in this range, but that is basically still one guy cranking them out and there is usually still a wait. And when you get into customs from Japan, they really aren't the same as customs from American makers. Most prefer to make you anything, as long as it is in their preferred steel, in a traditional shape, which some may or may not let you tweak. You aren't getting ladder pattern damascus, curly koa and mammoth tooth handles with mosaic pins. Although, they are usually cheaper than high end custom Americans. Some just charge a relatively small percentage increase over their regular knives.

They are both great, for their own reasons. Enjoy them both, be glad you have so many options.

Salty dog
06-12-2011, 03:41 PM
To each his own.

I guess I'll judge that by the knives I gravitate to and use the most.

Japanese.

goodchef1
06-12-2011, 04:24 PM
I believe that American knives have tradition also, although not as old as Japan, but tradition nonetheless, Japan has innovation also, with new steels, HT's and other stuff from companies like Nenohi.

For that price range, which is not a lot in the knife world, I don't think that there is actually one better then the other, and the differences in performance would not be as easily noticeable.

Knife makers are a close nit group and from what I've learned, support and learn from each other. Its us consumers that make these kinds of rivalries. I think preferences should be applied rather then "who's better" :D

ajhuff
06-12-2011, 04:31 PM
I think it's apples and apples. Hand crafted vs hand crafted, they are on equal pairings.

-AJ

Cnimativ
06-12-2011, 06:17 PM
For mass market knives, Japan certainly makes better knives.

For artisan knives, it should be evaluated on a vender and type of knife basis with different venders have different strengths and specialties.

sudsy9977
06-12-2011, 06:38 PM
i know exactly who i'd send my money to to make a knife if i had that kinda scratch....he ain't on the forums either....i ain't gonna tell though so their list doesn't get any longer in case i win the lottery!.....ryan

Josh
06-12-2011, 06:46 PM
i know exactly who i'd send my money to to make a knife if i had that kinda scratch....he ain't on the forums either....i ain't gonna tell though so their list doesn't get any longer in case i win the lottery!.....ryan

I've never seen a Japanese maker on the forum... does that mean he's Japanese?

EdipisReks
06-12-2011, 06:48 PM
i know exactly who i'd send my money to to make a knife if i had that kinda scratch....he ain't on the forums either....i ain't gonna tell though so their list doesn't get any longer in case i win the lottery!.....ryan

a Jay Fisher Saussure?

Eamon Burke
06-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Mass market--Japan. Custom, America. There are a lot of steps in the knife making process a lot of Japanese shops and makers do sloppily or poorly because of tradition and cultural standards, like proper annealing, preventing overgrinds, handle fitment, drying woods, etc. The factory steel is better, I'll take Tojiro over Dexter Russel any day.

AFKitchenknivesguy
06-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Just my opinion, but it matters what you prefer to use them for. Since I am a meat and potatoes guy, I will go for American made. I simply don't use japanese knives often because I don't prepare asian food much. Pretty simple to me.

shankster
06-12-2011, 10:40 PM
Just my opinion, but it matters what you prefer to use them for. Since I am a meat and potatoes guy, I will go for American made. I simply don't use japanese knives often because I don't prepare asian food much. Pretty simple to me.

Are you saying you can't use American made knives to make Asian cuisine and Japanese knives for meat and potatoes?
That's just crazy talk...:scratchhead:

AFKitchenknivesguy
06-12-2011, 10:54 PM
No, I am saying it's my preference to use them in the manner I prefer to use them for. I have a few j-gyuto's, notably Nenox's, that I use on a regular basis for meat and potatoes. I am all about the crossover; I used a konosuke to open a frozen vegetable package the other day. ;)

shankster
06-12-2011, 11:07 PM
Gotcha..My bad..

Chef Niloc
06-12-2011, 11:52 PM
Mass market--Japan. Custom, America. There are a lot of steps in the knife making process a lot of Japanese shops and makers do sloppily or poorly because of tradition and cultural standards, like proper annealing, preventing overgrinds, handle fitment, drying woods, etc. The factory steel is better, I'll take Tojiro over Dexter Russel any day.


I agree with this 100%
when it comes to the old saying "j- knives are better" I think that's people comparing misono, nenox ext. to Dexter and Chacogo cutlery. I think Americans lost there love/need for high end kitchen knives 70+ years ago. Still to this day we live in a disposable kitchen environment. If it were not for the "craze" in food brought on by food network and top chef I don't think high end let alone custom kitchen knives would be what they are today, some of you can remember the pickings 10-15 years ago?
So IMHO American custom blade smiths are now and have been for a long time better then there Japanese counterparts, they just have not been making kitchen knives. American makers have spent the past few generations making hunting knives and tactical folders because that's what payed the bills. As far as kitchen knives go I don't have a single J-knife that can out preform the blades made by Bill, Bob, Butch, Michael, and Hoss and if it were not for the replaceable ease factor of my Nenox knives I would solely use knives by sad makers....well them and Heiji,why can't he just move to the US??
PS F Dexter russell for destroying American cutlery, Lamson you suck too...and WF sucks infinity :bat::rolleyes2:

rockbox
06-12-2011, 11:53 PM
From the knives I have seen, I prefer American, but I don't think we have seen the best that Japan has to offer. I doubt any of us other than Jon has seen the best customs from Japan. I know there are knives that Jon carries the he can not post on his web site or on this board because of his contractual obligations with the maker. I bet the top Japanese makers could care less about the American market because they have multi year waiting list in Japan just like Bob has here.

oivind_dahle
06-12-2011, 11:59 PM
Colin - The best knife you ever had? (not bang for the bucks, just the best, without thinking price here)

AFKitchenknivesguy
06-13-2011, 12:28 AM
and WF sucks infinity :bat::rolleyes2:

Effing yeah!!

Mattias504
06-13-2011, 01:41 AM
OD, I'm thinkin that hes gonna say his Burkes. Its funny that I swear by Nenox and Heiji as well. I sadly must say that I haven't used a knife by an American maker other than Murray yet but am patiently waiting to decide on what that would and will be. My only problem is that I can't afford a full blown custom ATM nor do I have the patience to wait a year + for one....

Ichi
06-13-2011, 02:11 AM
Japanese or North American - who makes a better knife? Japanese !

So - My question - where do the best knives of the world come from - if you had $1000 to $1500 to buy the best knife you could for the money - who would make it?
Some old guy in Japan ! :thumbsup2:

Chef Niloc
06-13-2011, 02:38 AM
Colin - The best knife you ever had? (not bang for the bucks, just the best, without thinking price here)

A question I can not answer. I'm still trying hard to decide. There are still a few knives I must get to make up my mind. Till then I can only give you my favorite, Burke Suji, must be the best suji made?

echerub
06-13-2011, 02:42 AM
I guess we're talking about double-bevel knives only in this discussion. I like using single bevels - lately I've been using traditional kiritsuke a fair bit, for example. Single-bevel knives are a whole new learning curve that knifemakers outside of Japan have yet to start tackling in earnest.

If we take the whole gamut of cooking knives, then I couldn't answer this question because it really would be apples vs oranges. I use single-bevels often enough that I honestly couldn't exclude them to simplify the consideration of cooking knives.

If I restrict the matter to double-bevels only, the only North American knifemaker whose work I've used is Devin's so I simply do not have sufficient breadth of experience on this side to have a well-grounded opinion on the question.

dough
06-13-2011, 10:57 AM
ya i too am curious about the single bevel side of this issue... its not that american makers cant make single bevel knives... its just that ya dont see many making them. i guess really its that these makers arent being asked to make them so that is the real issue in the end.

all the people i know that use single bevels have been a professional cook at one time. many that see my yanagi still say hey thats neat but when they pick up a chef knife they will say wow where can i get me one of these. anyway its exciting to see so many knife makers producing kitchen knives.

oivind_dahle
06-13-2011, 12:15 PM
Colin:

You use the suji more than the 2 gyutos?

Chef Niloc
06-13-2011, 01:22 PM
Colin:

You use the suji more than the 2 gyutos?
Acutely given resent events I tack back what I sad. I have no preference to any maker, I think every knife is equally good.

mattrud
06-13-2011, 04:55 PM
Acutely given resent events I tack back what I sad. I have no preference to any maker, I think every knife is equally good.


Come on Colin you are going to need to elaborate on that one.

AFKitchenknivesguy
06-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Read the off topic section, as it provides insight into that statement.

jwpark
06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
Single bevel - Japan
Double bevel - USA

l r harner
06-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Single bevel - Japan
Double bevel - USA




I am going to try and change that

echerub
06-13-2011, 07:22 PM
And *that* is truly a winner's attitude :)

sashae
06-13-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm a bicycle guy, and know way more about the building and design of steel-framed bicycles than people should ;) That being said, the differentiation between the amazing Japanese custom framebuilders and US bicycle framebuilders seems to be along the same lines as that between US and Japanese knifemakers.

In Japan, there is a concept called wabi-sabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi), or the beauty in imperfection/impermanence. American bicycle framebuilders produce some of the most immaculate, unbelievably perfect frames possible -- literally no possible improvement available. However, Japanese framebuilders, when building their frame, won't necessarily remove the last little bits that indicate hand-madeness -- file marks, a slight amount of overheating here and there, etc. This doesn't make the resultant bicycle less wonderful, just less perfected.

I've seen the same sort of aesthetic in the handmade knives I've had the fortune to handle -- little bits of the maker still visible in the work on the knives. Now, I have not had the chance to handle some of the wonderful output of the US folks on this forum and outside, but from the photos I've seen, these knives represent the pinnacle of the knifemakers' art, in many ways difficult to over-perfect, as they remove all the marks of hand making and show the grace and dedication of many hours put in to perfect their art. The Japanese /appreciate/ that sign of the maker, whereas we see the perfection of the resultant object as the peak of the handbuilders' art. It's a difference in philosophy rather than talent, and something that's to be appreciated rather than seen as a difference in quality.

Why say that one is better than the other, when we can appreciate each for what they are?

Salty dog
06-13-2011, 10:49 PM
Wabi sabi is bull $hit. If I got a high end "wabi sabi" knife it would go back n a heart beat. That goes for gringos to.

sashae
06-13-2011, 10:53 PM
You're not okay with imperfections at all? So Takedas (which have the imperfected kuroichi finish) is unacceptable? Slightly uneven taper from heel to toe on the spine?

SpikeC
06-13-2011, 11:16 PM
The Takeda knife IS perfected in its context.

JohnnyChance
06-14-2011, 12:25 AM
You're not okay with imperfections at all? So Takedas (which have the imperfected kuroichi finish) is unacceptable? Slightly uneven taper from heel to toe on the spine?

Fore me, it depends on the price point. Full blown high end custom? I would like it to be pretty close to perfect, yes.

I know Salty doesn't like Takedas anyway, and he sent back a custom Kramer because of some "wabi-sabi" asymmetrical issues. So, no, he is not okay with imperfections.

Mattias504
06-14-2011, 02:49 AM
The Takeda knife IS perfected in its context.

+1

I would have to say that by far Japanese makers have the general advantage over Americans. Don't get me wrong here, some of the stuff I have seen from Americans is as good if not much better than a lot of Japanese work. Most rustic, KU J blades beat the hell out of anything that comes from mass produced America. Also, as far as single bevel knives go, Japan is miles ahead of us for production. There are makers going for single bevel knives, but their stuff is out of most people's price range, so it would be hard to judge performance.

All this being said, if you put the best Japanese gyuto up to the best American gyuto, I have a feeling that the US one would win. Just from what I have read and seen on these forums, it seems like American makers are more willing to push the boundaries and try new things.

Salty dog
06-14-2011, 06:50 AM
Takedas are an abomination. I had mine for a week.

sashae
06-14-2011, 06:55 AM
Guess I'll continue to enjoy my abominations ;) I like seeing the hand of the maker in the things that I use -- overperfection isn't to my taste, what can I say.

Marko Tsourkan
06-14-2011, 08:39 AM
Guess I'll continue to enjoy my abominations ;) I like seeing the hand of the maker in the things that I use -- overperfection isn't to my taste, what can I say.

To each his own. I never understood what was the big deal about Takeda. Every Takeda knife I have seen, I have seen about 4 or 5 (customized them, so inspected them up close) had below-average grind, wasn't straight and had some other issues. Speaking of power of hype.

M

sashae
06-14-2011, 09:18 AM
Indeed! I like kurouchi knives in general, and there's something dramatically appealing to me about a really rough-hewn looking tool being so sharp and precise. I'm not nearly as educated as you (Marko) or Salty with regards to the smaller details of knives (for instance, I don't know what you mean by "below average grind") however the lack of rounding on the choil/spine is a bit much for me, but really my only complaint...

Lefty
06-14-2011, 09:23 AM
I haven't used a takeda, but didn't they used to have a concave grind? If this is true, that would explain the bendability of some takedas.
Either way, many MANY people love them, so I bet they do a great job. Hype helps, but performance creates hype.

rockbox
06-14-2011, 10:02 AM
Why say that one is better than the other, when we can appreciate each for what they are?

Because knives unlike paintings are tools and are meant to be used. Anything that diminishes their functionality is a flaw. Personally, I find iron cladding a show stopper. Iron cladding doesn't even patina nicely and interacts with the taste of food.

Marko Tsourkan
06-14-2011, 11:21 AM
I haven't used a takeda, but didn't they used to have a concave grind? If this is true, that would explain the bendability of some takedas.
Either way, many MANY people love them, so I bet they do a great job. Hype helps, but performance creates hype.

The ones I have seen were flat forged with a light convex grind at the edge (.5-.75"). The angle of the grind was uneven.

M

mpukas
06-14-2011, 12:00 PM
Because knives unlike paintings are tools and are meant to be used. Anything that diminishes their functionality is a flaw. Personally, I find iron cladding a show stopper. Iron cladding doesn't even patina nicely and interacts with the taste of food.

+1,000,000

I'm over Moritaka and any knife w/ iron cladding becasue of exactly that.

echerub
06-14-2011, 12:31 PM
Perhaps it's because I typically cook in home environments and can wipe or rinse at will, I have had no issues w the iron cladding on a number of Takedas. I also haven't had any issues with the bending that some have reported.

I wouldn't choose any of my Takedas for a pro work environment though. I don't even choose them for my classes.

As much as I like and enjoy my Takedas - and they are my favorite double-beveled knives to use - I don't consider them best-of-breed objectively. They happen to suit me very well but they aren't the pinnacle.

I too believe that perfection without flaws and with supreme consistency are requisites for something to be considered among the best of the best. I don't think this is necessarily a matter of cultural outlook: remember what Japanese industry did in the automotive sector and electronics.

Bringing things back to the original topic though, I think "the best" discussions of any kind will always hinge on a whole series of individual assumptions and preferences. Then there will be knives where we can personally really like but can also acknowledge aren't going to suit everyone.

Eamon Burke
06-14-2011, 01:03 PM
Salty, your demeanor continues to crack me up.

I have to say that when it come to the high-end, extreme customs, there is one supreme quality, what I believe is the sign of true virtuosity. I call it the "illusion of intentionality". Everything, every part, every source, becomes unquestionable in it's use, existence, and placement. Everything about a thing, be it food, knives, or music, is done with the full knowledge, care, and approval of the maker.

The desire and drive to create is a quality passed to us by our Maker, who creates, and created us in his image. We have an innate need, like children, to imitate our Father, to wear his work clothes and do our best to make them look like they fit.

To me, that is what these kind of $3,000 kitchen knives are about. People proving their mastery.

Wabi-Sabi is not about mastery, it's about accepting that you are part of something bigger. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally love the concept. But no Wabi-Sabi practices will every win in a case of "which is better". Because those Japanese knives aren't about BEING better. They lose because they do not want to win.

However, there are plenty of makers in Japan that are going for extreme perfection and high performance. I still believe Americans have the edge here(no pun intended).


I give it 3 years before there is a consensus that Butch makes better single bevels than 98% of Japan.

Craig
06-14-2011, 03:02 PM
I've got a Takeda Nakiri, and I find the contention that it might in any way bend or flex amusing. I couldn't say unless I got to play with one, but I doubt I'd like a Takeda Gyuto or Sujihiki as much.

Lefty
06-14-2011, 03:24 PM
I just thought of something. If we're talking "as a whole/team", then there is no contest, the Japanese win, hands down. Konosuke, Misono, Suisin, etc beat anything that is more "readily available" from here. However, if we're talking the top makers and top products, North Americans still get my vote.

bieniek
06-14-2011, 05:58 PM
Wabi-Sabi is not about mastery, it's about accepting that you are part of something bigger. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally love the concept. But no Wabi-Sabi practices will every win in a case of "which is better". Because those Japanese knives aren't about BEING better. They lose because they do not want to win.


"Its not about being better than your oponent, but than yourself from yesterday".

l r harner
06-14-2011, 10:30 PM
"Its not about being better than your oponent, but than yourself from yesterday".

i like that

BTW if im to be a top single bevel guy i gues si had better start looking for big wheels

rockbox
06-14-2011, 10:40 PM
i like that

BTW if im to be a top single bevel guy i gues si had better start looking for big wheels

Have you thought about using the wheel off of a spin exercise bike. I don't know how wide they are.

l r harner
06-14-2011, 11:01 PM
go big or go lhome
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=15046

SpikeC
06-14-2011, 11:29 PM
Awesome!

jackslimpson
06-15-2011, 09:30 AM
Wabi sabi is bull $hit. If I got a high end "wabi sabi" knife it would go back n a heart beat. That goes for gringos to.

So, is a forced or natural patina a "wabi-sabi" characteristic?

Cheers,

Jack

Michael Rader
06-15-2011, 10:31 AM
Great thread. Very interesting.
-M

Eamon Burke
06-15-2011, 11:07 AM
That wheel is amazing butch! But I have to say, you said something about having a platen that is curved to match the curvature of a 4' wheel, and that is a much more efficient, smart idea.

Forced patina is the opposite of a Wabi-Sabi ideal, Patina is a layer of moderate oxidation that protects the metal. The Statue of Liberty is coated in a kind of patina, and it's not exactly heading back to it's roots anytime soon. Kuro-Uchi would be an expression of this in visual/artistic terms, simply because of it's unfinished qualities.

olpappy
06-15-2011, 03:44 PM
apples vs oranges

I would not compare a $200 Japanese mass produced knife like Takeda vs a high priced American custom knife like Kramer with a two yr wait list.

There are a few Japanese makers who make custom knives in the 'American' paradigm, among them are Itou, Hattori, Takeshi Saji, their knives are done in American style and the fit and finish are comparable to knives by American custom makers.

The more common Japanese knives are rustic, forged, clad with iron - no similar knives are made in USA except for Murray Carter, the Yoshimoto bladesmith who had the skills of village bladesmith passed to him, then moved to USA. Somewhere in Japan there is a village that has no one to make their forged tools...and a previous generation bladesmith who is likely kinda pissed off

sashae's excellent post hit the nail on the head, the Japanese ideal is quite different from the American concept. Which you find 'better' is a matter of your personal preferences. Most people can appreciate the good and bad points of both.

Salty dog
06-15-2011, 07:43 PM
As far as a pure cutting machine the Masamoto honyaki gyuto is easily the best performer I have ever used. (For my style mind you) I know I have missed a couple American makers but I have most of them covered.

sashae
06-15-2011, 08:31 PM
Thanks, olpappy. I'm not nearly as qualified as many of the folks here to decide on what should be the "platonic ideal" of the perfect knife -- even within that platonic ideal, there will be people who prefer a thicker or thinner blade, more or less belly, harder or softer steel, etc. It's fascinating to see how different US and Japanese ideals are though, in terms of what perfection is and how it's achieved. I find it amazingly compelling.

RRLOVER
06-15-2011, 08:50 PM
Wabi Sabi:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rof l2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: That makes me laugh every time.

Salty dog
06-15-2011, 10:02 PM
yeah, I'm not going there.

Michael Rader
06-15-2011, 11:36 PM
...Murray Carter, the Yoshimoto bladesmith who had the skills of village bladesmith passed to him, then moved to USA. Somewhere in Japan there is a village that has no one to make their forged tools...and a previous generation bladesmith who is likely kinda pissed off...

Ha ha. Come on. - I spit wine on my keyboard... damn-it :-)
-M

Chef Niloc
06-16-2011, 03:01 AM
Ha ha. Come on. - I spit wine on my keyboard... damn-it :-)
-M



That's BS Murray Carter is 10 feet tall and spits fire Balls from his a$$, and if he was here now he'd tell you all that you can take his life, but you will never take his Egooooo.

rockbox
06-16-2011, 08:30 AM
Ha ha. Come on. - I spit wine on my keyboard... damn-it :-)
-M

I totally missed that. Thanks for quoting. That might be my sig for a while.

BertMor
06-16-2011, 04:47 PM
Acutely given resent events I tack back what I sad. I have no preference to any maker, I think every knife is equally good.

Awwww come on Colin, you know your favorite knife is a Mike Stewart Bark Rver!