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Delbert Ealy
01-19-2014, 02:46 PM
I have been doing a lot of forging this week, and that's finished for the moment until I get these couple of knives finished. It has allowed me some time(a few minutes here and there) to think and to tinker. One of the things I have been working on is a santoku design, and I have one that im happy with. I know that's not a real big design with you guys, but I do a couple of shows a year and Id like to have that one in my lineup. Ive had a few requests for it.
Anyway, I have a couple of 210-215mm petty-suji knives to make as well, what some of you refer to as line knives.
I have seen this term used over and over again and to me it seems there are a lot of talk about them and little action.
So how do you really feel about a 210ish knife 36-38mm tall with a convex grind.
Should I add this as a regular model to my line?
Im thinking some where in the neighborhood of $275 or so in AEBL, maybe $300, depending on how it goes.
Also 210mm seems the top end of the length on the comments I have seen, would it be better at 200mm?
Let me know your thoughts. To me it seems like it would be a fun knife to do, and one of those gaps that other makers are not really filling. I love those.

Thanks,
Del

ramenlegend
01-19-2014, 03:02 PM
210 sounds great! I've never used a 200 mm suji or gyuto but I have a 180 shig santoku and find it a little too short and if there is a line for the new line knife, I'll like to get in it :)

easy13
01-19-2014, 03:09 PM
Count me in for one, I currently use a 210 Suisin IH petty as my line knife (occasionally use various 150mm petty, sometimes 240 suji as line knife). Love using the 210 petty/suji profile for line work but would love something a little sturdier/heftier since my Suisin is super thin/light. AEBL would be great since in the heat of the rush I sometimes dont have time to think about keeping knife dry to prevent reactivity. Would love to try out your take on a line knife, let me/us know.

Brad Gibson
01-19-2014, 03:41 PM
Any chance of getting one in carbon?

turbochef422
01-19-2014, 04:07 PM
Ive used a bunch of different ones including one of yours and though it sounded great in theory i never felt comfortable with them. Then I tried a 230mm Nenox and that was perfect. I think don't go shorter go longer

Delbert Ealy
01-19-2014, 04:28 PM
Brad, no worries there, I just started with the idea of using stainless. If I decide to make it part of my regular line it would be available in all the materials I work in.
This post is mainly to gauge interest, and to hear your input. I won't be doing a prebuy on these until I get the spoons and other projects done.
Thanks for your input so far.
Del

marc4pt0
01-19-2014, 05:19 PM
The term "line knife" seems very objective and riddled with opinion. I like the 210 suji/petty but it doesn't really cover everything. I like your idea of (and correct me if I'm wrong) a gyuto suji hybrid in 210-ish. Just enough height at the heel to mince or julienne if need be, but still sleek enough to slice proteins for plating.
I'm looking fwd to seeing what you come up with, which will no doubt be fantastic!

Delbert Ealy
01-19-2014, 06:16 PM
The term "line knife" seems very objective and riddled with opinion. I like the 210 suji/petty but it doesn't really cover everything. I like your idea of (and correct me if I'm wrong) a gyuto suji hybrid in 210-ish. Just enough height at the heel to mince or julienne if need be, but still sleek enough to slice proteins for plating.
I'm looking fwd to seeing what you come up with, which will no doubt be fantastic!


Mark,
Thanks, I really glad that one knife doesn't cover everything, otherwise I'd be out of work pretty shortly.
I'm just gauging interest, I have to make a couple of these anyway, so it won't be any trouble to do more. It will be a lot easier than designing that santoku.
Thanks,
Del

knyfeknerd
01-19-2014, 06:31 PM
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out as well.
Also a big +1 to what Marc said.

marc4pt0
01-19-2014, 08:22 PM
Sorry, by everything I meant within the capacity of a line knife during service on the line where space is a premium as is time.

Delbert Ealy
01-19-2014, 09:08 PM
Sorry, by everything I meant within the capacity of a line knife during service on the line where space is a premium as is time.


I know, I was messing with you. :)
Del

chefcomesback
01-19-2014, 09:17 PM
Del,
I see your style really suitable for gyuto/suji hybrid. As long is te first half not very tall that it reduces the drag for sllicing the proteins for plate up and it taper ups height at the end for cutting it would be great. For example in a line knife I would trim the ends off of a lamb loin and cut in 3 for plate up , wipe clean ,then very thinly shave baby radish or cut heirloom tomatoes for salad

franzb69
01-19-2014, 09:33 PM
i'm with you on that chefcomes back =D

been lookin for a good line knife. hopefully i'll have enough cash to get one from del.

stevenStefano
01-19-2014, 10:33 PM
I think 210 is about right, anything more and 240 sujis are dime a dozen and perhaps not so good in confined spaces, and anything less is getting a little small. You want a pretty flat profile to make it versatile. I got a custom one a few years ago and I still have used it literally every day in work since I got it

greasedbullet
01-19-2014, 10:54 PM
I am definitely looking for a sturdier 210 suji-petty. Personally if you just made a taller suji then it would be perfect. I think a 40mm height would be perfect. I am very interested in this. $275 sounds about right.

mark76
01-20-2014, 04:47 AM
Definitely interested in a 210 mm suji!

jgraeff
01-20-2014, 12:13 PM
I have a 205mm funyaki that is pretty much perfect for the line.

NO ChoP!
01-20-2014, 01:12 PM
I just want to add some valid points to what makes a line knife.

A line knife sits out on your board during service.

Should be smaller, as to not get in the way. Sub 210.

Shouldn't be stainless, as you'll be too busy to baby it.

Doesn't need belly/ should make a good slicer, as protein slicing, a la minute chiffonade, etc...will be it's main task.

Should have a pointy tip to pop open a criovac bag, but too pointy probably not good, as it will get banged around.

Sturdy, grippy handle, as your hands are often wet or grimey.

Not too expensive as it's probably the most likely scenario for a knife to hit the ground.

Which is a good reason to have a workhorse grind...

bkultra
01-20-2014, 02:16 PM
Shouldn't be stainless, as you'll be too busy to baby it.

I assume a typo and should be stainless.

NO ChoP!
01-20-2014, 02:17 PM
lol...yes, thank you.

franzb69
01-21-2014, 06:51 AM
semi stainless would probably work =D

mt_mac
01-22-2014, 05:11 AM
This would fill a need for me I'm interested.

Delbert Ealy
01-22-2014, 04:54 PM
21741

Here is my prototype of both the santoku model and the line knife.
The santoku is 165mm and the line knife is 210mm.
let me know what you think.
Del

Brad Gibson
01-22-2014, 04:56 PM
I'd like to buy the prototype! That's what I think!

JHunter
01-22-2014, 05:02 PM
The profile on that line knife is down right sexy!!!

greasedbullet
01-22-2014, 05:12 PM
Dude. That is pretty awesome.

jigert
01-22-2014, 05:20 PM
The line knife looks sweet, Del! I wouldn't mind one on my magstrip in the not too distant future.

dcBrookster
01-22-2014, 05:28 PM
That line knife looks great. I'm certainly interested.

easy13
01-22-2014, 05:38 PM
What they said

chefcomesback
01-22-2014, 06:04 PM
Looking good Del


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Delbert Ealy
01-22-2014, 07:38 PM
I have to admit I was a little nervous posting that pic, but it seems that with a few of you I hit the nail on the head.
So how about the santoku? Does that look alright or is it hideous? I know that it's a knife more for the masses, but I have a show in march this year that I'd like to take a few to.
Thanks,
Del

Mucho Bocho
01-22-2014, 07:58 PM
The line knife looks all business but with class reminds me of the iconic modern locomotive poster. You know the one.

jakuda
01-22-2014, 08:01 PM
The line knife looks awesome, as long as big hands with big knuckles don't bang the cutting board when using it. How tall is the blade?

I'd buy one =)

jakuda
01-22-2014, 10:32 PM
I mean, what is the clearance height of the blade edge to the handle?

Brad Gibson
01-22-2014, 10:34 PM
I personally like a very short knife for the line, I hope it's not too tall!

jgraeff
01-22-2014, 10:38 PM
That line knife looks awesome if love to have that laying around.

jer
01-22-2014, 10:55 PM
The line knife looks great though knuckle clearance could be tight. Hard to tell from the photo and may be okay even if that were the case.

Regarding the santoku, assuming the photo accurately depicts the profile, it looks to have more belly than what is typical and preferred. It also looks to have a fair amount of curve in the spine between the heel and the tip. I think it would look better if the spine continued along the same plane as the tang and then dropped to the edge. Also if the curve toward the tip were more gradual and started further away from the tip it would look better.

greasedbullet
01-22-2014, 11:35 PM
Yeah, just a tad taller on the line knife so it can be used on the board and I am in. Heck I am in anyway. I am excited.

The santoku looks ok. In my opinion you should make the nose less abrupt, also it seems to have a good bit of belly for a santoku.

As long as we are talking about line knives, if you keep that same profile and grind the front down to a point you would have a pretty awesome mini gyuto.

Chef Andy
01-22-2014, 11:41 PM
Looks amazing, but I agree on the knuckle clearance, would have to test it to see if I liked it or not.

marc4pt0
01-23-2014, 12:42 AM
Dammit Del, you've done it again. That line knife looks down right amazing. Can't wait to see it with your handle work. On my cutting board.

XooMG
01-23-2014, 01:06 AM
The santoku has a bit of a Ken Onion feel with the curve and blunt tip. I'm not sure what "the masses" do with their knives, but my gut feeling is to take advantage of the lower point by making the edge flatter. I don't know if the curve is due to a perceived need to specialize in rocking, but that seems to undermine the concept of the santoku in the first place.

Consider the Shigefusa santoku profile. It's meant to really be an all-rounder for squash/fruit, veggies, and meat (the san toku).
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kurouchi-165mm-wa-santoku/

Delbert Ealy
01-23-2014, 02:05 AM
The santoku has a bit of a Ken Onion feel with the curve and blunt tip. I'm not sure what "the masses" do with their knives, but my gut feeling is to take advantage of the lower point by making the edge flatter. I don't know if the curve is due to a perceived need to specialize in rocking, but that seems to undermine the concept of the santoku in the first place.

Consider the Shigefusa santoku profile. It's meant to really be an all-rounder for squash/fruit, veggies, and meat (the san toku).
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kurouchi-165mm-wa-santoku/

That is a sweet looking santoku, looks like I may go back to the drawing board with that one.
Thanks for the input.
Del

Stumblinman
01-23-2014, 02:54 AM
Santoku reminds me of my Boker. Didn't work for me but then again it was thick. Home cook I dunno, but I couldn't sell the Boker here.

Hbeernink
01-23-2014, 02:58 AM
Taller on the line knife, or a slightly higher handle angle and I'm in- I'd actually like an extra 5-10mm in length too, but will go for 210. Santoku has too much belly- I really like the global g5 profile (hate the steel and edge performance however) and love the shigefusa with its higher angle handle and flat blade profile.

XooMG
01-23-2014, 05:14 AM
That is a sweet looking santoku, looks like I may go back to the drawing board with that one.
Thanks for the input.
Del
Though the vocal knife enthusiast community tends to denounce santoku, I've heard from a few members who love the Shigefusa version and use it all the time. Actually got me looking for one, though I don't feel like putting up with the upkeep. The Itinomon version looks OK and looks like it has a somewhat blunter tip, if one wants to lean in that direction.

I look forward to future developments on it...it's a much more interesting and practical knife style for a guy like me than the typical "line knife". When I was just starting on the hobby, I was led to believe (in large part by communities like this that cater to pros) that as a small-output home cook, a santoku is an acceptable but inferior choice compared to a gyuto or gyuto/petty combo...but now I'm questioning that. I am not a fan of the stub pointed ones, but some of the sleeker ones would easily pass in the eyes of many as a "funayuki" or a "mini-gyuto" or "tall petty" with a tall heel, lower tip and relatively flat edge. I have suspected for a while that my kitchen would benefit from exactly that kind of knife, though I've been in denial.

NO ChoP!
01-23-2014, 08:38 AM
Using a santoku is like wearing a pink shirt. Some guys can pull it off. I like monster trucks and assault weapons.

Lefty
01-23-2014, 10:38 AM
I'm literally drinking from a pink mug, at the firehall, while reading this. Is that like wearing a pink shirt? Guys know not to mess with my mug, and to be honest, I doubt most of them would be comfortable using it anyways. Along the same line of thought, I rocked a Shige Santoku for a while and it was flat out awesome. It went to a good home, so I'm not upset about selling it...well, that upset. To be honest, that thing was all the knife any home cook would ever need.

Del, I'd start with the Shige lines/profile and make it your own. As for the line knife, my one "warning" would be to make sure it isn't so flat that it almost seems recurved. I'd raise the tip a couple mm's, and then you're golden. Another nice little way to get around a narrow blade is by elongatin the emoto a tiny bit, or by keeping the choil where it is, but bringing the heel back a tad. This allows a natural spot for the fingers to move up and out of the way.

Delbert Ealy
01-23-2014, 03:46 PM
21784


So I made some adjustments.
On the line knife the handle is a bit narrower and the heel stands at 39mm I also brought the end of the tang up just a smidge.
the santoku I made some more serious mods more along the lines of the shig.
Let me know what you think.
Del

NO ChoP!
01-23-2014, 04:06 PM
I think in regards to the line knife, you nailed it....

And it still reads "Ealy".

Brad Gibson
01-23-2014, 04:48 PM
nice!

greasedbullet
01-23-2014, 05:08 PM
Awesome!

steelcity
01-23-2014, 05:31 PM
Yeah man

Hbeernink
01-23-2014, 08:14 PM
like the line knife now - when can I sign up for one?

mt_mac
01-24-2014, 01:05 AM
Love the line knife. It's definitely what I had in mind!

greasedbullet
01-24-2014, 01:08 AM
That santoku is pretty awesome too. Just not quite my thing.

jakuda
01-24-2014, 01:17 AM
I want that line knife now! =)

Lefty
01-24-2014, 12:05 PM
Looks great, Del!

dcBrookster
01-24-2014, 01:28 PM
They both look great.

I'm squinting my eyes, trying to picture the girth of the handle on the line knife.

tomsch
01-25-2014, 05:55 PM
110% in for at least one line knife!

Delbert Ealy
01-26-2014, 02:33 PM
Thanks for all the positive responses, my current goal is to get one of these completed before I open them up for a prebuy so that you guys will have a chance to see the finished knife. I estimate that I'll be working all this week on finishing up with the paring knives. I'll try and get one of these finished right after that. Then I will open up the prebuy to these, but I will be doing the spoons first.
Del

quantumcloud509
01-27-2014, 06:58 AM
Del youre a badass.

XooMG
01-27-2014, 10:42 AM
Front of the santoku is a little stubby and has a bit more curve than I like; I'm kind of thinking to pick up something like a Zakuri Tosagata when it's available somewhere, but that's totally personal. Looks like you've figured out a good general shape.

ohbewon
01-28-2014, 03:51 PM
21784


So I made some adjustments.
On the line knife the handle is a bit narrower and the heel stands at 39mm I also brought the end of the tang up just a smidge.
the santoku I made some more serious mods more along the lines of the shig.
Let me know what you think.
Del

Ohhhhh...I like it. Is that one by chance going to have a spalted maple burl handle and a bog oak bolster? :biggrin:

Chutotoro
01-30-2014, 09:40 PM
Like the shape of both knives. I own that shig santoku that was linked, and i use it almost every day at work, and its just because its so, well, nice (for a santoku that is!) :) I like the new profile on yours much more than the first. Oh and the narrower the handle on the line knife, the better imo.

Steel in Texas
02-06-2014, 03:24 PM
Will you be making the Deltoku in O-1 carbon or AEBL initially?

Steel in Texas
02-06-2014, 03:26 PM
Hey, my 100th post was your's Del!
Century club!

Delbert Ealy
02-06-2014, 04:04 PM
Will you be making the Deltoku in O-1 carbon or AEBL initially?


I will probably be making them in aebl once it arrives, but I can do it in either steel.
I am still not quite happy with it. I have the new prototype sitting on my bench and I look at it every day. I think its a bit tall, and so I may drop a bit of the height.
I am hoping to make a couple to take with me to the show in Wisconsin.
Del

XooMG
02-06-2014, 04:25 PM
I will probably be making them in aebl once it arrives, but I can do it in either steel.
I am still not quite happy with it. I have the new prototype sitting on my bench and I look at it every day. I think its a bit tall, and so I may drop a bit of the height.
I am hoping to make a couple to take with me to the show in Wisconsin.
Del
The chunky feeling I personally get from it is based on the edge being parallel to the spine, not from height alone. If you kept the same edge curvature while bringing the point up a few mm (i.e. the whole edge from the heel is angled upwards toward the spine a tiny bit) you'd have a more graceful profile in my unqualified opinion.

BJE1
02-06-2014, 05:50 PM
I personally would not like to see it go any shorter. Then it almost becomes a 210mm petty. If its too short you loose some of the ability to do a little bit of everything on the line with it as well a knuckle clearance. At least that has been my experience with 210mm pettys that I have tried to use in the past for this purpose.

Brad Gibson
02-06-2014, 05:51 PM
He's talking about shortening the santoku. The line knife is pretty much set I think,

Delbert Ealy
02-06-2014, 08:45 PM
I personally would not like to see it go any shorter. Then it almost becomes a 210mm petty. If its too short you loose some of the ability to do a little bit of everything on the line with it as well a knuckle clearance. At least that has been my experience with 210mm pettys that I have tried to use in the past for this purpose.




Yes my comments were about the santoku.
Del

BJE1
02-06-2014, 09:14 PM
Ok that's my fault I forgot all about the santoku. Thanks for the correction.

Hbeernink
02-06-2014, 10:21 PM
Del, what Damascus will you be making the line knife in?

Mute-on
02-26-2014, 07:04 PM
Del,

If I may, the Santoku is less obviously an Ealy design.

The way the choil drops to the edge from the handle is an identifier of your knives. On the Santoku a shallower (less abrupt) curve here (like your line knife) would look more "Ealy like", basically, just sick!

I also have the Shig Santoku, and your revised profile still has a higher tip / more belly. A lower nose and flatter profile edge, together with a flattened spine towards the tip (again, more like your line knife), would be the duck's guts (so to speak).

Really looking forward to the finished result!

Cheers,

J

Delbert Ealy
02-26-2014, 10:00 PM
Del,

If I may, the Santoku is less obviously an Ealy design.

The way the choil drops to the edge from the handle is an identifier of your knives. On the Santoku a shallower (less abrupt) curve here (like your line knife) would look more "Ealy like", basically, just sick!

I also have the Shig Santoku, and your revised profile still has a higher tip / more belly. A lower nose and flatter profile edge, together with a flattened spine towards the tip (again, more like your line knife), would be the duck's guts (so to speak).

Really looking forward to the finished result!

Cheers,

J


Thanks,
I took a break on that one, too much going on, and I have to be in the right frame of mind to work on designs.
I can say I'm still not happy with what I have so far. I think the last one was a bit tall once I played with it a bit.
A lot of the comments seem to point to flatter profile and less belly, I got some of the same comments on my early gyutos.
I'll work on it when it feels right, I don't know if I'll have one done for the show.
Del

Pensacola Tiger
03-08-2014, 06:54 PM
This was handed to me at my front door by a friendly postal worker:

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Delbert%20Ealy/DelbertEaly21cmAEB-Llineknife_zps5f6d0971.jpg (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/Pensacola_Tiger/media/Delbert%20Ealy/DelbertEaly21cmAEB-Llineknife_zps5f6d0971.jpg.html)

Great job, Del!

Johnny.B.Good
03-09-2014, 02:54 PM
Beautiful knife, Rick, congratulations.

Love your work, Del!