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View Full Version : Lapping stones with dmt xxc 120 micron



sel1k1
06-26-2011, 07:33 PM
Through out the past three months I put together my first stone set; all large single grit stones: misc makers 220 grit(big brick stone), 700 bester, 1200 bester, 3000 oishi, 8000 oishi, and a 120 micron xxc dmt.

My question is; Can I use the dmt xxc to lap all of these stones or is there something else I need for the higher grit? I put a few tiny gouges:bashhead: in the 3000 so I turned it over and have been using the other side until I lap the top, but I don't want to mess up any of the stones.

EdipisReks
06-26-2011, 07:38 PM
it's fine for all of them.

UglyJoe
06-26-2011, 07:41 PM
Yeah, use the DMT for all the stones. Make sure you wash them thoroughly so that any abrasive that might come off the DMT isn't around when you sharpen on them (nasty gouges, that!). For the higher grit stones, you will see some gouge marks from the DMT. If they are softer, muddy stones then this won't be a problem and you can use them as is, sharpening will take down the marks in a hurry. If they are harder stones then you might have to buy a nagura of some time to remove the gouges. But most nagura aren't really good at lapping (too small/slow), so you'll definitely have to start with the DMT. When I did the initial flattening of my natural finisher I lapped with DMT, then lapped with my other flattened stones in order (500, 1000, 6000), progressively removing the marks till I got to the tomonagura. Worked well for me.

Seb
06-26-2011, 09:06 PM
I use an old dish brush to clean off my Atoma 140, especially after Naniwa SuperStones - the gunk the higher grits leave on your diamond plate is no joke.

I also use these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diaface-Moonflex-Diamond-Stone-70-mm-White-600-Grit-/230587191062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0114f16) a heckuva lot, in fact, I hardly bother to get the big diamond plate out now that I am in the habit of smoothing/levelling the edges.

mainaman
06-26-2011, 09:34 PM
I use an old dish brush to clean off my Atoma 140, especially after Naniwa SuperStones - the gunk the higher grits leave on your diamond plate is no joke.

I also use these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diaface-Moonflex-Diamond-Stone-70-mm-White-600-Grit-/230587191062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0114f16) a heckuva lot, in fact, I hardly bother to get the big diamond plate out now that I am in the habit of smoothing/levelling the edges.
Seb,
have you noticed any diamond release from those Diaflex in the slurry?
DMT usually release until they are well broken in and I do not like them for that reason.

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:12 PM
it's fine for all of them.

I thought so, just didn't want to take the risk with the higher grit stones and have read mixed technique of using a higher micron to lap higher grit.

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:20 PM
Yeah, use the DMT for all the stones. Make sure you wash them thoroughly so that any abrasive that might come off the DMT isn't around when you sharpen on them (nasty gouges, that!). For the higher grit stones, you will see some gouge marks from the DMT. If they are softer, muddy stones then this won't be a problem and you can use them as is, sharpening will take down the marks in a hurry. If they are harder stones then you might have to buy a nagura of some time to remove the gouges. But most nagura aren't really good at lapping (too small/slow), so you'll definitely have to start with the DMT. When I did the initial flattening of my natural finisher I lapped with DMT, then lapped with my other flattened stones in order (500, 1000, 6000), progressively removing the marks till I got to the tomonagura. Worked well for me.

Excellent, I will be lapping within the hour ^__^. Forgot to mention; I did pick up a nagura for the 3000 and the 8000. What do you use for washing? Rinse with warm water? How much did you pay for the natural stone?

UglyJoe
06-26-2011, 10:27 PM
Rinsing with water works fine. Just feel the stone thoroughly to make sure there aren't any higher grit particles on it, and while wet, look at it in the light across the surface at eye level - any particles will cause the water to swell up around them so you can see them. As for the natural stone, price is too random to bother quoting anything. Talk to a reputable vendor (I bought mine from Maksim at www.japanesenaturalstones.com), let them know what you are looking for, and make sure that whatever else they've used and know the quality of any stone they are selling. Price will vary wildly based on where the stone is from, how hard it is, what the size is, what the composition is, etc.

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:27 PM
I use an old dish brush to clean off my Atoma 140, especially after Naniwa SuperStones - the gunk the higher grits leave on your diamond plate is no joke.

I also use these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diaface-Moonflex-Diamond-Stone-70-mm-White-600-Grit-/230587191062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0114f16) a heckuva lot, in fact, I hardly bother to get the big diamond plate out now that I am in the habit of smoothing/levelling the edges.

A dish brush is fine for the dmt as well? Plastic brissle? Woah, those are very inexpensive. Certainly within my budget. Everytime I think my stone/sharpening set is complete I find new things to add to it. Funny, after I got all my stones, I found Youtube videos of Murray Carter and his two stone technique ><. Hehehehe. I am very happy with my set, although I can't help but think how much happier I might have been with a large dual 1000/6000 and a new sujihiki.

I am concerned about using a 700 diamond on my 220 and 700 stones, would this plate be fine? Or is this for stones above 700?

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:29 PM
Seb,
have you noticed any diamond release from those Diaflex in the slurry?
DMT usually release until they are well broken in and I do not like them for that reason.

Hmm, how long does it take to break in the dmt? I am practicing with my first set of knives that I don't care too much about and trying to sharpen at least once every other day. I have read it is good to lap every time to start with a flat surface.

UglyJoe
06-26-2011, 10:32 PM
A dish brush is fine for the dmt as well? Plastic brissle? Woah, those are very inexpensive. Certainly within my budget. Everytime I think my stone/sharpening set is complete I find new things to add to it. Funny, after I got all my stones, I found Youtube videos of Murray Carter and his two stone technique ><. Hehehehe. I am very happy with my set, although I can't help but think how much happier I might have been with a large dual 1000/6000 and a new sujihiki.

I am concerned about using a 700 diamond on my 220 and 700 stones, would this plate be fine? Or is this for stones above 700?

NO NO. That's for higher grit stones. The 700 and definitely the 220 stone will destroy it with a quickness.

Murray's philosophy is great to a point. That's how I started, and I still use a King 1000 and 6000 in my progression. But you have to understand, Murray isn't the biggest on a nice, even finish - just look at the posts about his knives recently. Don't get me wrong, he makes a killer knife, and sharpens exceptionally well, but you're not getting anything finished like a Shigefusa with Murray's method. Still, I think a lot of people would be better suited and understand sharpening better if the limited themselves just to 1kish and 6kish stones in the beginning till they really learn how to sharpen, then add to that to fit their particular needs as they go.

UglyJoe
06-26-2011, 10:34 PM
Hmm, how long does it take to break in the dmt? I am practicing with my first set of knives that I don't care too much about and trying to sharpen at least once every other day. I have read it is good to lap every time to start with a flat surface.

Don't worry about that too much. Just make sure your stones are smooth after lapping and no particles from the DMT are stuck in the surface of the stone and you are good to go.

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:35 PM
Rinsing with water works fine. Just feel the stone thoroughly to make sure there aren't any higher grit particles on it, and while wet, look at it in the light across the surface at eye level - any particles will cause the water to swell up around them so you can see them. As for the natural stone, price is too random to bother quoting anything. Talk to a reputable vendor (I bought mine from Maksim at www.japanesenaturalstones.com), let them know what you are looking for, and make sure that whatever else they've used and know the quality of any stone they are selling. Price will vary wildly based on where the stone is from, how hard it is, what the size is, what the composition is, etc.

Indeed, that is what I have come across when looking at a few natural stones. So far I have found they range from $300 - $700 for the polishing category. Thank you.

UglyJoe
06-26-2011, 10:36 PM
Indeed, that is what I have come across when looking at a few natural stones. So far I have found they range from $300 - $700 for the polishing category. Thank you.

You can definitely find them cheaper than that. Talk to a good vendor. You might not get the prettiest or biggest stone, but if you have a good vendor they can get you a stone that works very well at half that price.

sel1k1
06-26-2011, 10:42 PM
NO NO. That's for higher grit stones. The 700 and definitely the 220 stone will destroy it with a quickness.

Murray's philosophy is great to a point. That's how I started, and I still use a King 1000 and 6000 in my progression. But you have to understand, Murray isn't the biggest on a nice, even finish - just look at the posts about his knives recently. Don't get me wrong, he makes a killer knife, and sharpens exceptionally well, but you're not getting anything finished like a Shigefusa with Murray's method. Still, I think a lot of people would be better suited and understand sharpening better if the limited themselves just to 1kish and 6kish stones in the beginning till they really learn how to sharpen, then add to that to fit their particular needs as they go.

Okay, just wanted to make sure. Thank you.

I have also read exactly that regarding Murray knives and sharpening with touching up on higher grit out of the box.

tk59
06-26-2011, 11:16 PM
I start at high grit and work my way down. I don't find I have any grit contamination issues that way. If I'm wanting to make slurry, I'll use a little diamond nagura. I've tried several and the all release the occasional diamond into the slurry.

Seb
06-27-2011, 01:02 AM
Seb,
have you noticed any diamond release from those Diaflex in the slurry?
DMT usually release until they are well broken in and I do not like them for that reason.

Nope, none whatsoever.

sel1k1
06-27-2011, 08:59 PM
I start at high grit and work my way down. I don't find I have any grit contamination issues that way. If I'm wanting to make slurry, I'll use a little diamond nagura. I've tried several and the all release the occasional diamond into the slurry.
Of course I read this after I lap all of my stones in the reverse ><. The plate and the stones were rinsed between use. Even with the higher grit stones nothing stuck to the plate much. I should have gotten the plate when I purchased my last polishing stone.

I havn't seen or really looked for a nagura with diamond, only seen the common nagura usually given away when purchasing a polishing stone.

After going over the stones with the dmt a few times and rinsing, I did use it to create a slurry and tried to feel and view for diamonds. I couldn't tell completely if there were any leftover or not, didn't notice any imperfections, looked great.

The edge that I got last night on my 210mm, high carbon 52hrc(yep 52) stainless chef knife is almost cutting through paper effortlessly. I am thinking it's the lapping of the stones after using the same technique. I want to do a clamshell edge.

sel1k1
06-27-2011, 09:01 PM
Nope, none whatsoever.

I didn't notice anything leftover from the dmt on any of the stones. Rinsed between use, maybe the 220 grit helped with the absense of loose diamonds. Not sure.

Eamon Burke
06-28-2011, 05:27 PM
FWIW you can use the fine grit stone with the gouge in it. It really won't matter.

Unless it is lined up precisely with the edge, or you stick your knife tip in it(which would gouge most 8ks anyways), the gouge won't affect how the stone sharpens.