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karloevaristo
07-04-2011, 04:47 AM
I just wanted to see out of curiosity.

Who here puts a microbevel on their edge?

If yes, why? In your experience what are its advantages? And if you're a professional cook, does it perform better? does the edge last longer?

If no, why not?

Lefty
07-04-2011, 04:59 AM
I micro-bevel/convex my edges on purpose. It's easier to create a convex edge than it is to make a perfectly flat one (I am human) and it seems to add durability.
I really noticed a big jump in retention on my Misono moly gyuto. I have a feeling the benefits are more pronounced when you have slightly softer steel (58-59).
I've also noticed the cuts feel smoother with a microbevel/convex edge. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've noticed it.

Lars
07-04-2011, 05:01 AM
I had problems getting rid of a wire-edge on a knife made of blue super.
After trying a microbevel ala Jon from JKI, I have not had any trouble since..
Also, the microbeveled knife feels great on the board and the edge lasts a long time.
I'm a home cook lacking skills, so YMMV..

stevenStefano
07-04-2011, 05:07 AM
If you're gonna thin a knife even a little a microbevel is a good idea. Even just putting like a 10-ish degree angle on a knife with a microbevel totally makes a massive difference to cutting performance and edge durability. That's what I do with pretty much all my knives

karloevaristo
07-04-2011, 05:46 AM
I micro-bevel/convex my edges on purpose. It's easier to create a convex edge than it is to make a perfectly flat one (I am human) and it seems to add durability.
I really noticed a big jump in retention on my Misono moly gyuto. I have a feeling the benefits are more pronounced when you have slightly softer steel (58-59).
I've also noticed the cuts feel smoother with a microbevel/convex edge. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've noticed it.

I've never tried doing a convex grind... any tips on doing it? better yet is there video i can watch that shows how to do one?

Knifefan
07-04-2011, 06:15 AM
I usually grind to a primary bevel of 8.5 degrees (per side). Adding a microbevel extends the lifetime of the edge in between strops by multiples, with hardly any loss in initial sharpness. When sharpening to a wider angle (>15 degrees), a microbevel may not be as effective, but with keen angles it's highly recommended.

bieniek
07-04-2011, 07:07 AM
Now I never managed to measure angle I sharpen at, nor I would say its any particular number.

I must agree with Lefty, It gives me a lot more durability with the softer knives, and not so much with tougher ones.

There is a video of Murray Carter talking about convex, however for me its not comprehensive. Or Murray seems like hes just talking because someone made him talk, and not explaining too much.
Why do you feel like going for microbevel, is your edge deteriorating scary fast? Or just experimenting? What steels? Kitchen knives?

karloevaristo
07-04-2011, 08:40 AM
Why do you feel like going for microbevel, is your edge deteriorating scary fast? Or just experimenting? What steels? Kitchen knives?

Experimenting and looking for ways to prolong my edge's life... but it's not like it's failing super fast, but I think I can still do better with my sharpening and having an edge that will last longer...

I have a Takeda AS 210, Hiromoto AS 210, DT ITK 240, Mac mighty 8" and a Murray carter stainless funayuki Blue steel that I just got hold of yesterday... and the plan is, I'm going to use that until the edge don't feel sharp anymore. Then, I'll sharpen it myself, use it till it doesn't feel sharp, to see where my sharpening is really at....

Eamon Burke
07-04-2011, 09:49 AM
I put microbevels on all the softer steel knives I sharpen. It helps keep them sharp, it's a bit stronger that way, but the primary bevel creates a minor thinning effect.

karloevaristo
07-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Why wouldn't you put a microbevel on your hard steel knives?

bieniek
07-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Why would you need one?

Lefty
07-04-2011, 10:39 AM
If I'm convexing my edge, I just add a micro bevel onto the primary, and then blend it together with a bit of differing pressure and a very slight lift at the very tip of the edge.
It's basically like thinning a knife, but concentrated on the cutting edge only.

Lefty
07-04-2011, 10:44 AM
I microbeveled my Misono Swede (61 hrc), but only on the left hand side, which has about twice the bevel width of the right. Of course, I blended it together... Something about sharp angled shoulders and microbevels just doesn't feel right to me.
A microbevel really shouldn't hinder performance enough to not do it to a "hard" knife. I like to keep things fairly consistent when I can, so I do the same to both softer and harder knives, assuming the bevel is wide enough to do so.

tk59
07-04-2011, 10:54 AM
Why would you need one?

It helps prevent chipping on yanagiba, for example.

stevenStefano
07-04-2011, 11:05 AM
In terms of convexing, if you have the patience of a Saint you could try the mousemat/sandpaper route. That was how I first sharpened my knives, and the time it took was pretty awful and also I must have used about 50 sheets of paper. I think if you thin the knife with a microbevel surely you're getting nearly the same result no?

tk59
07-04-2011, 11:10 AM
In terms of convexing, if you have the patience of a Saint you could try the mousemat/sandpaper route. That was how I first sharpened my knives, and the time it took was pretty awful and also I must have used about 50 sheets of paper. I think if you thin the knife with a microbevel surely you're getting nearly the same result no?

If you don't use your knife like an ax, yes. If your edge still deforms or chips, a thicker and/or more convex edge might still be warranted.

jgraeff
07-04-2011, 11:37 AM
i was ready to give my shun chefs knife away about a mont ago until i learned about microbevels, it strengthens your edge immensely and makes it easy for touch ups.

before i could barely get through a day without feeling like i needed to sharpen my shun again, now it has been two weeks since i sharpened it, i have stropped it here and there but thats it, i do a 10 degree or so bevel with about a 25-30 degree microbevel and it works awesome
thanks to jon at jki for that tip!

goodchef1
07-04-2011, 01:26 PM
I put microbevels on my prep knives that have high board impact for longer edge retention

bieniek
07-04-2011, 01:42 PM
It helps prevent chipping on yanagiba, for example.

My bad, didnt thought of single beveled ones. Yes, Im doing so myself, but I think to give more aggression to the edge by making it with suehiro. If you do hamaguri properly I dont think you should really have to have microbevel. When I get my hands on the natural I will try not to do microbevels anymore. All in the name of science.

Eamon Burke
07-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Microbevels, when used by newer sharpeners, can help to remove a wire edge. If wire edges are not an issue, A microbevel can create a stronger cutting edge, because it is more obtuse.

It may not be considered this way by many, but a knife's edge is not there to be sharp--it is there to be strong. You could lay a knife flat on a belt sander, and sharpen it at an angle from the spine straight to the edge, just one giant wedge. It would not be very strong, though. So you put an edge on it. It keeps the edge uniform by reducing the amount of steel involved in the sharpening process, and strengthens the edge. A "microbevel" or "secondary edge" does the same thing--makes the cutting edge more obtuse, and therefore stronger.