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mhenry
07-04-2011, 08:46 PM
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0196.jpg

So I have been grinding on this damn handle all weekend trying to fix it. I give up:bashhead:, I just dont think I can salvage it. It has symmetry issues, its not flat, the bevels are too big, the taper is off, its a mess.The problems are subtle but big enough to qualify the handle for the trash can.

I have got 35.00 in that piece of Black Ash ,and I figure another conservative 15.00 in the ferrule, spacer, and misc. 50 bucks down the crapper. I am wondering how much junk if any you guys are producing and what you estimate your sucess rate is. I would put mine at around 70%.
Mike

Dave Martell
07-04-2011, 08:52 PM
Anyone doing handles on any level is loosing some here and there. I know I've lost over $400-500 easily. I don't do wa-handles though - I bet I'd be worse at them even still. I feel your pain though man but at least you can feel better knowing that we all lose some.

Lefty
07-04-2011, 09:01 PM
Yup. It happens. At least your junk handle shows some awesome skill, if it's any consolation...

apicius9
07-04-2011, 09:02 PM
I just killed one yesterday that was almost done, happens all the time even after having done quite a few. Where I am 'losing' the most is on custom orders. They have to be a certain size and design, and if I mess up, it's often trash. If I just make my own designs, it's easier: When I start working on a gyuto handle and mess up the symmetry or something else, I just keep on sanding until I have it right and then call the thinner result a yanagi handle ;)

Too bad about yours, it looks real classy and with the metal spacers I can imagine the work you put into it.

Stefan

Pensacola Tiger
07-04-2011, 09:05 PM
Mike,

Any chance you could be trim it into a wa-petty handle?

Rick

Eamon Burke
07-04-2011, 09:17 PM
That's a good idea. A petty! Just grind it down, there's a smaller handle in there somewhere.

tk59
07-04-2011, 09:26 PM
That's an interesting point. That looks heavy though. Wouldn't the resulting knife feel like all handle with nothing attached to it?

Lefty
07-04-2011, 09:29 PM
You can hollow it out quite a bit with the right file/rasp to lose some weight, or even angle the bottom portion of the butt to lose a bit more material. Just a thought :)

EdipisReks
07-04-2011, 09:41 PM
that handle looks really great, regardless of the flaws, so i'd try to figure out a way to salvage it.

SpikeC
07-04-2011, 09:43 PM
As long as you've given up on it you might as well send it over to me and I will dispose of it safely!

l r harner
07-04-2011, 09:55 PM
while i have latly made my fair share of junk (14 handles to get 8 steak knives done )

that looks fine and remember most WA are not perfect and also ther is nothing wrong with how a "flat" wa works since most of my tangs are tall i end up making many knives with "wa" handles that are taller then they are wide
so long as you get the angles right having the sides a bit wider then the top and bottom are not bad and in some cases work better

Marko Tsourkan
07-04-2011, 10:25 PM
I had 50% success rate until about 6-7 month ago.

M

mhenry
07-04-2011, 10:49 PM
Yup. It happens. At least your junk handle shows some awesome skill, if it's any consolation...
It is alot of consolation. Thanks

mhenry
07-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Mike,

Any chance you could be trim it into a wa-petty handle?

Rick

Hey Rick,
I suppose I could try, but I dont have a petty to put it on It was intended for a Konosuke Gyuto. The only petty I have has a Stefan handle.

tk59
07-04-2011, 11:00 PM
You can hollow it out quite a bit with the right file/rasp to lose some weight... Is this kosher?

Lefty
07-04-2011, 11:06 PM
The handle hole tends to be oversized, while the ferrule hole is snug, so it really shouldn't negatively affect anything. Certain epoxies expand quite dramatically (but keep the same weight). Not to mention, the shear strength in any decent epoxy is greater than that of wood. You'd effectively be losing mass, while increasing strength.

JohnnyChance
07-04-2011, 11:29 PM
Hey Rick,
I suppose I could try, but I dont have a petty to put it on It was intended for a Konosuke Gyuto. The only petty I have has a Stefan handle.

Sounds like an excuse to buy a new petty! Or make it for a petty and sell it.

Lefty
07-04-2011, 11:37 PM
...Somebody should make an offer....

mhenry
07-05-2011, 10:30 AM
I am going to try to salvage it, and make a petty handle. I will let you guys know how it turns out.
Thanks Mike

mhenry
07-05-2011, 10:31 AM
That's an interesting point. That looks heavy though. Wouldn't the resulting knife feel like all handle with nothing attached to it?

tk empty your mailbox I cant send you a PM

Delbert Ealy
07-05-2011, 02:59 PM
Mike,
It does happen, I have send more wood and steel into the trash than most of you will ever see.
There comes a point however when skill and confidence meet and you can do great work. I have had many projects where there was no possibility of backup. I made a blade for Mark at itsaburl, out of a piece of meteorite he sent me. I had never seen another piece like it(size shape type pattern) and I will probably never see another. There were no backups and no room to screw up. There is a point where you can't afford to be nervous, because you will sabotage yourself. Now maybe you are not quite there with your skill, and you need more practice.
Think about this, I make gold/silver mokume, somtimes with several thousand $$$ worth of materials. I really can't afford to screw up, and I don't.
(Oh and by the way I make damascus petty blades) ;)
Del

mr drinky
07-05-2011, 04:17 PM
...Somebody should make an offer....

I agree. Salvage it, tell people what size/type of knife it will fit and then offer it up for sale. Or you could buy your own petty to fit, but it looks way too nice to not give it a good home.

k.

kalaeb
07-06-2011, 01:25 AM
I am wondering how much junk if any you guys are producing and what you estimate your sucess rate is. I would put mine at around 70%.
Mike

I am probably pretty close to 70%. I get irritated easily so I usually end up working with crap until I get motivated to re-re-handle. From the looks of it that is not only 50.00 but quite a few hours too. Good luck in trying to make it work!

Marko Tsourkan
07-06-2011, 07:35 AM
...Somebody should make an offer....

I can offer to fix it, that is to make it smaller and to fix symetry :)

Most of my handles are not salvageable, because they are made for a specific size knife. For example, height of a 'nipple' on my handles depends on the height of a machi on a knife, so it is not easy and sometimes is not possible to downsize if you have a size in mind that is appropriate for a particular knife. Handles without nipple or internal support pins or oversize tang cavity, could be downsized.

M

oivind_dahle
07-06-2011, 07:40 AM
How high is a "nipple"?

This high? Def a NOT SAFE FOR WORK PIC HERE!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/neotomnipplesvqqsnbpmr1.jpg/

Marko Tsourkan
07-06-2011, 09:11 AM
How high is a "nipple"?

This high? Def a NOT SAFE FOR WORK PIC HERE!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/neotomnipplesvqqsnbpmr1.jpg/

Dude, you will get yourself banned. :)

Lefty
07-06-2011, 10:06 AM
That's just not right....

goodchef1
07-06-2011, 10:10 AM
on any level!!!! :O

mhenry
07-06-2011, 10:36 AM
Marko
That is a very cool offer and I really appreciate it. I have already started grinding it down. Looks like it will be fine I have had to take so much material off that alot of the dimensional issues are gone its pretty much a new start.

I do have a question about polishing metal spacers if you dont mind I will send you a PM



I can offer to fix it, that is to make it smaller and to fix symetry :)

Most of my handles are not salvageable, because they are made for a specific size knife. For example, height of a 'nipple' on my handles depends on the height of a machi on a knife, so it is not easy and sometimes is not possible to downsize if you have a size in mind that is appropriate for a particular knife. Handles without nipple or internal support pins or oversize tang cavity, could be downsized.

M

Marko Tsourkan
07-06-2011, 10:49 AM
...

I do have a question about polishing metal spacers if you don't mind I will send you a PM

Sure thing, though I don't do anything extra for polishing outside fine-sanding it (220, 320, 600, 1000, 1500) and then buffing with chromium oxide on 1800rpm buffer. I have had best results with real silver.

I think it is important to do some sanding on a granite plate. It helps to remove metal and wood at the same rate (as opposed to sanding on a padded surface), but on fine grits I do sand on a padded surface, as it gives a nicer finish and material removal is not an issue.

M

mhenry
07-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Marko, Thanks that answered my questions.
Mike





Sure thing, though I don't do anything extra for polishing outside fine-sanding it (220, 320, 600, 1000, 1500) and then buffing with chromium oxide on 1800rpm buffer. I have had best results with real silver.

I think it is important to do some sanding on a granite plate. It helps to remove metal and wood at the same rate (as opposed to sanding on a padded surface), but on fine grits I do sand on a padded surface, as it gives a nicer finish and material removal is not an issue.

M

mhenry
07-21-2011, 12:20 AM
You Guys wont beleive this. I got the handle shaped down to a really nice petty size and look what I did:cry: I hate Black Palm!!!!!

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0215.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0214.jpg

kalaeb
07-21-2011, 12:21 AM
Man, I hate it when that happens. Sorry for your luck.

mhenry
07-21-2011, 12:42 AM
Thanks, It is not so much bad luck, as being too heavy handed with the drill press.

mhenry
07-21-2011, 12:48 AM
I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg

tk59
07-21-2011, 01:06 AM
The more I look at that one, the more I like it. I think the spacers are so thin and close together, it really doesn't look wierd. It's like one fancy spacer.

kalaeb
07-21-2011, 02:33 AM
I like that one a lot, well done.

apicius9
07-21-2011, 05:21 AM
I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg

In general, I like it. In most cases I think even the nicest spacer can 'disappear' when it is between two very catchy pieces of wood. I think this is borderline in your handle but because it is a bit thicker overall, I am sure it will look great when finished.

Sorry about the palm piece. That stuff can be a bit brittle and rushing on the drill press is risky. Same thing happened to me recently. One customer asked me to make a handle in a very unusual design and he gave me the measures down to 1/16". When I finally had it rght, the ironwood ferrule cracked. I put on a new ferrule and resand it as carefully as possible without takingoff too much material. We'll see if I will get away with it...

Oh, and before I forget: really excellent work and great materials.

Stefan

Lefty
07-21-2011, 07:33 AM
That sucks Mike! It was looking really good. If you have a band saw, you can likely salvage the handle portion, shape a new ferrule with the spacer attached to it and bring this one back again.
The new handle combo looks amazing to me! A little Rader-esque...very nice :)

Pensacola Tiger
07-21-2011, 07:44 AM
I like that last one a lot. :wink:

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 09:52 AM
That sucks about the black palm. :(

The next one up looks great though.

Eamon Burke
07-21-2011, 05:32 PM
I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg

Love this one. Please post pics when its done!

Mike Davis
07-21-2011, 11:03 PM
That multi piece handle is amazing! Can't wait to see it! I was unsure about using metal spacers, but it looks great!

mhenry
07-28-2011, 07:50 AM
That sucks Mike! It was looking really good. If you have a band saw, you can likely salvage the handle portion, shape a new ferrule with the spacer attached to it and bring this one back again.
The new handle combo looks amazing to me! A little Rader-esque...very nice :)

Ok Lefty, I was going to chunk this handle, until I read this. I thought I would give it a try, looks like it may have saved it! Thanks
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0314.jpg

Lefty
07-28-2011, 08:02 AM
Awesome! It looks perfect from here.
I'm glad it worked out (and my suggestion saved you some materials!)

jmforge
07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
It's always fun working with expensive natural materials, I once had a pricey block of ironwood burl that just so happened to have a HUGE void in it that went from about 1/8 of an inch under the surface than ran about an inch down the block. Of course, I didn't discover it until I had profiled the handle.

Dave Martell
07-28-2011, 06:50 PM
It's always fun working with expensive natural materials, I once had a pricey block of ironwood burl that just so happened to have a HUGE void in it that went from about 1/8 of an inch under the surface than ran about an inch down the block. Of course, I didn't discover it until I had profiled the handle.


:nutskick:

jmforge
07-28-2011, 07:13 PM
Precisely!!! It's bad enough when you screw something up yourself, but even worse when it arrives from the factory "pre-screwed":lol2:
:nutskick:

Pensacola Tiger
07-30-2011, 01:27 PM
Mike,

Your mailbox for PM's is full.