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JBroida
07-07-2011, 12:03 PM
Gesshin 4000 Grit stone is finally up for sale on the website... this is one of my favorite finishing stones and by far the best stone i have ever used in the 3000-6000 grit range

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/518a337f71d8af45c99bc01d0812e43a/i/m/img_0025_18.jpg

Gesshin 4000 Grit Stones @ JKI (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin-1/gesshin-toishi/gesshin-4000-grit-stone.html)

heirkb
07-07-2011, 01:37 PM
That is one bad-a** stone, Jon. I really want one after having tried it. It cut so fast that I couldn't believe my eyes.

El Pescador
07-07-2011, 01:44 PM
I have one of these. It is a lot quicker than my old Rica. Not anywhere near as muddy but amazing feedback.

mainaman
07-07-2011, 02:17 PM
John how would you rate the hardness of the stone?
Does is slurry much is it easy to slurry?

Thanks

JBroida
07-07-2011, 03:08 PM
i guess i would call is a 6-7 on a scale of 1-10... it does develop slurry, but it also cuts really fast so the slurry is mostly swarf. You can work up a slurry though.

No chance you're in LA and want to try it for yourself?

JeffS
07-07-2011, 03:40 PM
So between this and the Gesshin 5k what are the key differences? Perma soak vs cut and go and slightly harder as well as faster?

Sounds like both are good at leaving toothy edges and good for step ups to much higher grit stones or leaving as is.

JBroida
07-07-2011, 03:52 PM
The gesshin 5k leaves a brighter mirror-like polish, is slightly harder, and is splash and go whereas the gesshin 4k is a soaker, slightly sofer, faster, has better feedback, and leaves a misty edge... if you could make the chocera 5k be a better stone, it would be the gesshin 4k ;)

splash and go stones always will lack the same kind of feel and feedback you can get from good soaking stones... for the most part, they are slower too (though there are some exceptions). However, some people require the convenience of splash and go at their work or home, or they simply prefer them for the sake of convenience... thats why we have both.

I've had a lot of people try this stone at this point and i havent yet seen someone not blown away by it.

JeffS
07-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Thanks Jon.

I've been enjoying the 5k but I have to admit that my perma soak stones have always seemed to have better feedback. The 5k does leave a crazy polished edge for its range while still having bite but it sounds like this would be a good stone to add to my lineup for something different.

mainaman
07-07-2011, 04:40 PM
i guess i would call is a 6-7 on a scale of 1-10... it does develop slurry, but it also cuts really fast so the slurry is mostly swarf. You can work up a slurry though.

No chance you're in LA and want to try it for yourself?
unfortunately no I am on the East coast.

JBroida
07-07-2011, 05:04 PM
that sucks... well hopefully some other people who have used it will chime in... that way you dont just have to take my word for it. I know there are quite a few people on here who have tried out this stone.

I'll also try to get a video up of it soon like i did with the other gesshin stones.

-Jon

99Limited
07-07-2011, 05:16 PM
Jon, I'm going to have to keep an eye on you. You sang praises about the Gesshin 5k so I bought one, a month ago. Now you've gone to a higher tune for the 4k stone. To be truthful though I've been wanting to upgrade/replace some of my stones and one of them is my 3k SS. What do you think, the Gesshin 4k make a good fit between my 1.2k Bester and then either the 5k Gesshin or 6k Arashiyama before moving on to my 8k Snow White.

JBroida
07-07-2011, 05:21 PM
you could just do the 1.2k bester, gesshin 4k, and 8k snow white... the 4k is fast enough to easily go from the 1.2k and leaves a nice enough finish to go to the 8k

you can use the gesshin 5k when you want a shinier edge ;)

99Limited
07-07-2011, 05:32 PM
Alrighty then, you sold me, I placed my order, now we'll see. :-)

tk59
07-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Jon, I'm going to have to keep an eye on you. You sang praises about the Gesshin 5k so I bought one, a month ago. Now you've gone to a higher tune for the 4k stone. To be truthful though I've been wanting to upgrade/replace some of my stones and one of them is my 3k SS. What do you think, the Gesshin 4k make a good fit between my 1.2k Bester and then either the 5k Gesshin or 6k Arashiyama before moving on to my 8k Snow White.

The Gesshin 5k is a really nice stone esp considering is is a splash n go. In terms of speed and feel, I haven't tried anything I like more, although I do have a soft spot for SS. I wouldn't go to another 3-6k finisher because it could polish out too much of the coarser scratches and take some bite out of your edge. (Unless that's what you want.)

JBroida
07-07-2011, 05:55 PM
i know you love those splash and go stones tk, but would you care to share your thoughts of the 4000 grit?

JohnnyChance
07-07-2011, 11:55 PM
With all the stones you have at your disposal Jon, do you find yourself working up through the gesshin line, or do you like to mix and match? So far my gesshin 5k plays well with others, but I was just wondering if you liked using them in succession or do you work other brands/types into your regular lineup as well.

tk59
07-08-2011, 12:09 AM
I love the Gesshin soaker series. They are way better than the Choseras I've been using when I do use soakers (speed and feedback) and they easily outperform the Beston-Bester-Rika combo. The 4k is a finer version of the awesome 2k. The feedback isn't quite as dramatic and it's not quite as fast in exchange for a very nice but aggressive finish. I've tried it on a number of steels (I don't think I've tried PM steel on it yet.) and it works flawlessly on all of them. It's not a soft stone but it's not super hard either. If and when I buy soakers, these will be at the top of my list (I already have the 400).

El Pescador
07-08-2011, 12:18 AM
Jon sold me a 400 and 2k...then the 4k at his shop. Each is amazing on it own merit- the 400 cuts and feels better than the Bestor. The 2k is fast and leaves a better edge than the beston. The combo is amazing. I like the 400 edge because its so Toothy. Just a quick pass on the 2k then 4k and my edge is great.

Pesky

99Limited
07-08-2011, 07:46 AM
Jon sold me a 400 and 2k...then the 4k at his shop. Each is amazing on it own merit- the 400 cuts and feels better than the Bestor. The 2k is fast and leaves a better edge than the beston. The combo is amazing. I like the 400 edge because its so Toothy. Just a quick pass on the 2k then 4k and my edge is great.

Pesky

This is what I wanted to hear. I want a 400 to replace my Bester because I thought it would be a good choice. Now you have confirmed it and all I have to do is wait until Jon gets some more in stock.

mr drinky
07-08-2011, 08:19 AM
This 4000 is really tempting me.

k.

99Limited
07-08-2011, 09:32 AM
This 4000 is really tempting me.

k.

Based on the picture of the stones stacked up on the floor of his shop on his FB page, he probably ordered 20 4k stones. That was two weeks ago so I wonder how many Jon has left.

mr drinky
07-08-2011, 09:51 AM
Based on the picture of the stones stacked up on the floor of his shop on his FB page, he probably ordered 20 4k stones. That was two weeks ago so I wonder how many Jon has left.

Hey 99, what are you doing? Now you have made it an emergency in my mind because Jon might only have one left. Stoking that fire wasn't necessary :)

What you should have said is this: "Hey, Drinky, you have plenty of time to make up your mind and consider the pros and cons. Maybe you should sharpen a couple of knives today and see if you really need that stone. If it's a good fit, go for it, but don't be hasty. Also, you may want to consider your kids. Put that money in a 529 instead and watch it slowly grow in value and hope your kids go to college...."

k.

99Limited
07-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Hey 99, what are you doing? Now you have made it an emergency in my mind because Jon might only have one left. Stoking that fire wasn't necessary :)

What you should have said is this: "Hey, Drinky, you have plenty of time to make up your mind and consider the pros and cons. Maybe you should sharpen a couple of knives today and see if you really need that stone. If it's a good fit, go for it, but don't be hasty. Also, you may want to consider your kids. Put that money in a 529 instead and watch it slowly grow in value and hope your kids go to college...."

k.

If your kids want to go to college, let them pay for it themselves. My wife and I had to pay for our own education and it didn't kill us. Besides, the rate of growth on a 529 right now could easily be make up by adding more money later after you've acquired all the stones and knives you need. The cost of the Gesshin 4000 wouldn't even cover the cost of one book that would only be used one semester.

Ring, ring... hello "What's that Jon, you said you just sold a couple more stones. Okay, I'll tell Drinky he better hurry up before he misses out. Bye". :goodevil:

mr drinky
07-08-2011, 11:21 AM
Yeah, I think 529s are sort of a scam. I paid for my own college too (through the military). I do have a 529, but the fees on many of them are terrible and they play on the parental fears of future college costs to the benefit of fund managers. If it weren't for my divorce decree, I'd probably ditch it. A famous economist said once about extrapolating future costs: "Something that cannot go on forever will not go on forever." A college semester won't cost a million dollars in 18 years.

Now I have to buy my stone.

k.

JBroida
07-08-2011, 01:04 PM
With all the stones you have at your disposal Jon, do you find yourself working up through the gesshin line, or do you like to mix and match? So far my gesshin 5k plays well with others, but I was just wondering if you liked using them in succession or do you work other brands/types into your regular lineup as well.

I find that i use mostly gesshin stones with a few exceptions (my 500 grit diamond stone and my naturals for the most part)... more often than not, i only have to use 3-4 stones to get the results i want (sometimes less if the blade is not too damaged)

I like the soakers a lot, but i use the splash and go when i am looking for specific results that they do better

oh... and we still have quite a few of the 4000 in stock

rockbox
07-08-2011, 04:37 PM
So what do you recommend as the next step after the 2K?

JBroida
07-08-2011, 04:40 PM
i use either the 4 or 5k gesshin depending on what i am looking for... i often stop there for unless i am in need of something with a finer edge (for myself)... for customers, it always depends... i always talk to them about what kind of edge they are looking for and then do that

Citizen Snips
07-12-2011, 12:55 AM
i just got my 4k and let me just say, wow...

its actually quite amazing. the only thing about this stone that would make me think it is actually a 4k is the finish it leaves on the bevel. it has that nice hazy finish but also has quite a nice sheen to it.

what doesn't feel like 4k is its reaction and feel when you are using it as well as the finished edge it provides. it works so fast for a 4k....seemingly faster than a bester 1200. on top of that it gave me an edge that felt much cleaner than a traditional 4kish feeling more like a rika or something similar.

the final edge is something that ive been looking forward to and it does not disappoint. after a few onions, tomatoes, potatoes, carrots and pretty much all the other produce i could pry from my wife got the business and it was beautiful. clean feeling through tomato skin and falling through a carrot just doesn't make sense to me as ive not had an edge be able to do that yet.

i like it and think the other two soakers (400 and 2k) will replace all but my arashiyama and kitayama (for my single bevels) as soon as jon gets them in.

the videos do not do it justice, if you live by jon go try one out...its a pleasure to use.

i would like to note that i have only had it one day and cannot wait to get used to this stone and have it get more use. it did wonders on the konosuke HD as well as AEB-L.

mr drinky
07-12-2011, 06:32 AM
I can't wait to use mine. It just came in yesterday but it arrived right when I was oiling all of my boards, so I was afraid to touch it with all the oil and messy fingers around. I drew the water for a new bath later on though, so she is soaking and hopefully I will get to try her out today.

k.

99Limited
07-12-2011, 08:15 AM
I can't wait to use mine. It just came in yesterday but it arrived right when I was oiling all of my boards, so I was afraid to touch it with all the oil and messy fingers around. I drew the water for a new bath later on though, so she is soaking and hopefully I will get to try her out today.

k.

I'm glad to see you caved in to temptation on this. I also received my stone yesterday and within five minutes of getting it, it was soaking in the sink. I used it on my Kono white #2 and my Ealy Damascus gyuto. On my Kono, it left a sharp enough edge that I could push cut the WSJ, which is my paper of choice to test my edges. On my Ealy, I actually cut a new bevel with the 4k. This stone kind of reminds me of the 1.2k Bester in it's cutting ability but leaves a finer finish, easily something you use without further work. The Gesshin 4k stone is exactly what I was looking for in filling the gap between the 1.2k Bester and my 6k Arashiyama.

JBroida
07-20-2011, 04:03 PM
So, after speaking with a few customers, i feel its important i mention this about these stones... the gesshin 4000 grit stone is a little bit more "rustic" with regards to its fit and finish. It seems as though its just a bit more difficult for the maker to cut and shape. You may see some small scratches or other marks. These in no way effect the performance of the stone. It is still a crazy nice stone. It just may not look as pretty as the others ;) Its just kind of one of those "cant be helped" things... i think i would have a problem with it if the stone wasnt so awesome. Anyways, i just wanted to make sure this info was out there.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.

Thanks.

-Jon