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View Full Version : Ideas for first 240 Gyuto upgrade.



JeffS
07-07-2011, 04:45 PM
Ok, I think I am finally ready for something a little better.

I have a Fujiwara 240 FKH, Konosuke 270 HD Suji, and Shun Elite 8" that I have been working with and sharpening for awhile and have started thinking about a new 240 Gyuto to add to the lineup.

The Gyuto seems to be the one I reach for the most, but the Suji is a very close second. I don't really like rocking when I cut but have not really had a problem walking the Fujiwara on the board. 240 seems like the right size for everyday tasks on my boards. I have been enjoying Wa handles lately but decent western handles are ok in my books as well.

So who has any advice? I've worked with Blue #1 and really like it. I'm thinking of another carbon knife as so far I have enjoyed it more than SS, although AEB-L might be nice to try.

Budget is anywhere between 180 and 350.

heldentenor
07-07-2011, 04:54 PM
I think the standard recommendations are going to be the Devin Thomas ITK or a Konosuke HD. Either one seems to fit your bill. Do you want a superb all-rounder (the ITK) or a laser (the Konosuke)?

Not that these are your only options.

99Limited
07-07-2011, 04:59 PM
If you're not in a hurry, I think a Devin Thomas Mid-Tech 240 would be a good choice. It's $20 over your budget, but it's well worth it.

WildBoar
07-07-2011, 05:00 PM
x2 on a DT ITK, in either AEB-L or 52100. Great everyday, everything knife.

JeffS
07-07-2011, 05:08 PM
I think the standard recommendations are going to be the Devin Thomas ITK or a Konosuke HD. Either one seems to fit your bill. Do you want a superb all-rounder (the ITK) or a laser (the Konosuke)?

Not that these are your only options.

If I was to get another Konosuke I think It would me a white #2. I know the DT ITK will show up, it always does (and with good reason from all accounts) :)

At this point I am thinking that I might want something a little more substantial than a laser.

El Pescador
07-07-2011, 05:14 PM
I've got a very lightly used Hattori Forum 240mm gyuto that I'd sell you. It walks fine on the board and doesn't have much of a flat spot. PM me if you're interested.

Pesky

JeffS
07-07-2011, 05:17 PM
I've got a very lightly used Hattori Forum 240mm gyuto that I'd sell you. It walks fine on the board and doesn't have much of a flat spot. PM me if you're interested.

Pesky

I do like a nice flat spot. The FKH walks great with even with a decent flat length at the heel. Its a thought though. Ill keep it in mind.

Lefty
07-07-2011, 05:22 PM
I'd go with the white 2 Kono. I just used one (still am actually) to prep dinner. It's the best performing gyuto I've ever used. But, don't believe the hype :Ooooh:

EdipisReks
07-07-2011, 05:45 PM
i would get a Hattori FH if you want stainless or a Mizuno blue if you want carbon. i like my Kono white an awful lot, but i don't find myself actually using it much (the Mizuno and Shig take up most of my usage).

99Limited
07-07-2011, 05:49 PM
I have both the Kono white #2 and a DT Mid-Tech 52100. Once I got my DT, I hardly use my Kono anymore. Not that the Kono isn't a great knife it's a superb knife and probably the best gyuto you can get for the money. It's just that the DT cuts just as well and is about 50g heavier so it helps do some of the work. The FnF is perfect, I love the handle, the balance it just right. And another thing, it's made in America, which I think is important.

EdipisReks
07-07-2011, 05:51 PM
the very light weight of the Kono is why i don't use it. it seems to take a bit more work, even though it cuts absolutely superbly. a little more flex than i like, too. i've thought about selling it or trading it, but i can't quite bring myself to do it. it is a great knife. maybe i should use it tonight.

stevenStefano
07-07-2011, 08:38 PM
What about a Masamoto KS? It is White #2 with great geometry and is quite flat so it should suit your needs. It is also quite thin without really being a laser so it should cut noticeably better than the knives you have but it isn't so thin that you need to look after it any different than the knives you have. It is $310 from JCK

Lefty
07-07-2011, 08:52 PM
That's a good suggestion. It's nice to see something "new" (actually old) mentioned (again).

kool-aid
07-07-2011, 10:08 PM
Not that the dt mid tech hasn't been mention but I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and it is really a superb knife...although now my kono hd is being negelected

UglyJoe
07-07-2011, 10:59 PM
Since you mentioned more heft I would point you in a couple directions. First, ER beat me to the punch, but my go to gyuto is the Mizuno. Right in you price range, carbon, heck of a knife. I'd also say the Masamoto KS would fit the bill - from the measurements and pics I've seen it fits in the middle as far as blade thickness of the Mizuno and say a Konosuke. The AS Zakuri gyuto at JKI might fit the bill, although it would probably need some thinning out of the box... but the grind on those knives would make thinning pretty easy, I think. Last but not least, an old faithful that not a lot of people mention on here anymore: Aritsuga. Will definitely need thinning but a heck of a knife and very versatile (you can grind it 50/50 or at pretty much any asymmetrical bevel you want). You might also consider a Suisin or Yoshihiro, though those fall more into the laser category I think.

I highly suggest the Mizuno.

tk59
07-07-2011, 11:53 PM
My favorite 240 is a Carter SFGZ which is a little over budget and you might have a problem acquiring without a long wait. I really like Blazen in the 240 and Yoshihiro is a nice all around. It's definitely not a laser. I also really enjoy Aritsugu A-type but it took a fair amount of work to get there and the TKC/CarboNEXT. If I was to go for another 240, not on this list and not stain resistant, I'd go for a Mizuno or Masamoto, too. Zakuri are great knives but a little beastly for me, lol. If you were going the laser route, I'd probably go with KonHD... I really like my 270.

JohnnyChance
07-08-2011, 12:20 AM
Another vote for an AEB-L Devin. Or a 10" Zwilling Kramer in 52100. If you have a Sur la Table near you, you can basically try it with no risk as they will let you return it for any reason after any period of time.

Benuser
07-08-2011, 04:44 AM
Have you considered the Misono Swedish Carbon?

mmingio2
07-08-2011, 09:03 AM
Agreed...Exactly what I am doing right now. Love my Hattori FH 240 but wanted to try the 10" Z. Kramer. Played with it last night. The Kramer makes the Hattori look like a suji. Completely different knives. Took some time to adjust to the height of the Kramer...will comment on it in the Zwilling post. Briefly, love the steel, not sure about the geometry yet. The handle is super comfy in my meduim-large hand. OOTB edge is sharp...push cuts and shaves easily. The knife looks great...gonna show off at my cookout tonight.

SLT's policy is quite ridiculous....and I love it. I helped fund the Kramer purchase with a Shun Parer I bought a month ago and hardly used.

With so many great options, there is no wrong choice.


Another vote for an AEB-L Devin. Or a 10" Zwilling Kramer in 52100. If you have a Sur la Table near you, you can basically try it with no risk as they will let you return it for any reason after any period of time.

JeffS
07-08-2011, 03:34 PM
Hmmm

Think it would be one of these 3
Mizuno Blue
Masamoto KS
DT ITK SS or 52100

Anyone have anything to add about them?

Lefty
07-08-2011, 03:41 PM
Well, I'll take a stab...
The Mizuno isn't actually blue in colour. Ken Schwartz has NOTHING to do with the Masamoto and I'm pretty sure the DT is a lot less than $52100!
But seriously, I've got nothing other than, the Masamoto impressed me immediately when I held one, but I haven't gotten to try one out.

JeffS
07-08-2011, 03:49 PM
Well, I'll take a stab...
The Mizuno isn't actually blue in colour. Ken Schwartz has NOTHING to do with the Masamoto and I'm pretty sure the DT is a lot less than $52100!
But seriously, I've got nothing other than, the Masamoto impressed me immediately when I held one, but I haven't gotten to try one out.

:razz:

Nicely done.

tk59
07-08-2011, 05:12 PM
Since you ask, the only thing I have to add is to keep in mind that while the DTITK's are really good knives with nice steel and design, from what I have observed (out of a half dozen blades or so), there is more variability in the profile, quality of the grind as well as the level of fit and finish than with other brands. Some are laserish near the tip but others are pretty average. Others look almost like suji-gyuto hybrids or even funayuki-type profiles. Most come with minor overground faces, twists and bends in the blade. To Devin's credit, he will correct the more significant of these issues.

stevenStefano
07-08-2011, 05:38 PM
I have the Masamoto and I like it. It is middlish thin, considerably more so than my Hattori and has a nice taper near the tip. The fit and finish is excellent and it has a rounded spine and choil and it has a nice engraved saya. The Mizuno seems to be pretty popular as well, I've sorta been eyeing them for a while but I'm gonna get a Watanabe instead. I guess it sorta comes down to the profiles and whether or not you want blue steel or white steel. And of course don't forget the most important thing of all.......Which one has the coolest looking Kanji??

99Limited
07-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Since you ask, the only thing I have to add is to keep in mind that while the DTITK's are really good knives with nice steel and design, from what I have observed (out of a half dozen blades or so), there is more variability in the profile, quality of the grind as well as the level of fit and finish than with other brands. Some are laserish near the tip but others are pretty average. Others look almost like suji-gyuto hybrids or even funayuki-type profiles. Most come with minor overground faces, twists and bends in the blade. To Devin's credit, he will correct the more significant of these issues.

I'm wondering how many batches of ITK Devin has made and sold. My two are from the most recent batch and mine seem flawless. Maybe Devin has zeroed in on his problem areas and got them resolved. Wish Devin would chime in on this.

mindbender
07-08-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm wondering how many batches of ITK Devin has made and sold. My two are from the most recent batch and mine seem flawless. Maybe Devin has zeroed in on his problem areas and got them resolved. Wish Devin would chime in on this.

@99 - I'm still waiting for my replacement DT ITK that was part of your batch. DT has to redo the handle with cocobolo as originally ordered, and I'm jonesing for it. Good to hear that it was a good investment (for you, 2x).

TDj
07-08-2011, 11:02 PM
i don't have a 240, but i do have a 270 konosuke HD and actually haven't bothered even looking at another knife since (actually, i've neglected this forum and other knife forums pretty much altogether - oops!). BUT - you already have a 270 suji HD, so why not look for something "else". if you had to do a 240 gyuto, i'd go for the kramer-copy. i mean - it'd certainly be a "different" kind of knife among the others.

bishamon
07-08-2011, 11:21 PM
The Zakuri can get you blue#1, I have one. It's on the beefier side. Otherwise the Masamoto is liked by everyone if you want a middle-thickness knife.

Citizen Snips
07-09-2011, 03:26 AM
from what you describe about what you want i would recommend the 240mm wa-gyuto Masamoto KS. you get a tremendous value and they are a bit more substantial than a "laser" but you still get a thinner knife that can work very well as an everyday go-to knife. i think if i were to ever get a 240 gyuto again, i would go for this as well. it will come in a little under budget as well.

Seb
07-09-2011, 04:24 AM
I'm not gonna buy a new knife for a few months (famous last words) but the KS is on the future short list!

Marko Tsourkan
07-10-2011, 12:57 AM
I don't think there are problems so to speak with Devin knives more than you would get with other makers' knives, including the likes of Carter or Shigefusa. My Shigefusa gyuto had a dip in the edge and required a little stone work which I accepted as a characteristic of a hand-made knife.

I have seen more knives than most, bar Dave, and found very few knives that can truly be considered flawless. Every Takeda I have seen would have not made the cut in my opinion, yet they seem to be as popular as ever. I have also seen Kramer that was near flawless in finish, but the edge was not as thin as on most knives (it will be harder to put your edge on it) and at $150 per inch, it'd better be near perfect. The point I am making here - one can find imperfection on every hand-made knife.

I have never seen a bent DT knife, I don't believe it would have left the shop in that condition and it is one of those things that one can't overlook.

M

geezr
07-10-2011, 01:37 AM
from what you describe about what you want i would recommend the 240mm wa-gyuto Masamoto KS. you get a tremendous value and they are a bit more substantial than a "laser" but you still get a thinner knife that can work very well as an everyday go-to knife. i think if i were to ever get a 240 gyuto again, i would go for this as well. it will come in a little under budget as well.

240mm gyuto I have - edge length from tip to heel:
Masamoto KS = 257mm
Konosuke HD = 235mm

both great knives!

Citizen Snips
07-10-2011, 04:14 PM
240mm gyuto I have - edge length from tip to heel:
Masamoto KS = 257mm
Konosuke HD = 235mm

both great knives!

i agree with your last statement. the OP requested a knife that does not have to be a laser as there is a desire for a more substantial knife. the OP also stated that he/she already owns a konosuke suji. i would imagine if there isn't an immediate desire for a konosuke, then something else should be in order. i personally only use my 3 konosuke knives and think they are absolutely fantastic and far better than any other knives i have been able to put my hands on (i admit its not as many knives as some people here have used, owned or own buts its still quite a few). that being said i think the best suggestion would be the masamoto.

JeffS
07-11-2011, 11:27 PM
Thanks everyone for you input! I'll have to post the final purchase here when I make it.

TDj
07-13-2011, 12:06 AM
i kind of miss aritusugu a-types. ain't no love for it for a LONG time. But the 240 is not as hefty as its 270 brother - and while it's no "lazer", it's spine thickness if I recall is not THAT far off of suisin/tad. if i had to pick a second gyuto to "back up" my 270(260ish) konosuke, i think i'd go 240 A-type.

(oh, and i'd send it to dave for an initial sharpening ... he did my HD for me and it's pretty scary - i can only imagine with that higher level sharpening would have done ...)

Dubsy
07-13-2011, 05:37 PM
Have you considered the Misono Swedish Carbon?
They're EXTREMELY reactive, even with a patina (relatively). and honestly, ive seen no difference in edge retention and the edge they can handle between the Swedish Carbon series and the UX10, only the UX10 is guaranteed rustPROOF, not just resistant

ive had a Misono UX10 240mm gyuto for about a year, and i wouldnt even consider replacing it. i havent used a Devin Thomas, or a konosuke, but you should really look into the UX10 line. they're extraordinarily comfortable, gorgeous, and can take a retardedly sharp edge, and hold it for weeks. plus, its $327 amost everywhere, so its in youre price range.

Lefty
07-13-2011, 06:33 PM
I have the swede and it holds a great edge, but doesn't get quite as sharp as white 1, but seems to be on par with white 2 in terms of sharpness.
I recently thinned it a fair bit, so I could get better performance, and it's really singing now. I have a very steep bevel on the left side, and about 12* on the right.
I wouldn't discount them because of reactivity either...i've forced a patina and I have only had minor transference on tomatoes. They gave off a slight canned taste even though they were garden fresh. I have never had an issue with onions or garlic, etc. Maybe I just got lucky, but I doubt it.
If you can ever find a used one, or you want a good working knife, they're great. If you're thinking lazer, think again.

Dubsy
07-13-2011, 08:04 PM
i know its off topic, but i keep seeing references to "lazer" knives, and im just wondering what it means.

SpikeC
07-13-2011, 08:11 PM
:jumpy:
They have one of those red dot sights to help you keep your cut on line!

UglyJoe
07-13-2011, 08:20 PM
Har har har. ;)

It's a generic term for a knife with a very thin geometry, Usually it's applied to knives that are thin from spine all the way to the edge. Sometimes you'll hear someone talk about a knife being thick but laseresque, which simply implies that due to the geometry of the knife it cuts like it's thinner than it actually is. This usually refers to knives with some kind of convex grind.

Dubsy
07-13-2011, 08:20 PM
really? do they make meat hammers with c4 in the head, too?? :)

SpikeC
07-13-2011, 08:26 PM
Har har har. ;)

It's a generic term for a knife with a very thin geometry, Usually it's applied to knives that are thin from spine all the way to the edge. Sometimes you'll hear someone talk about a knife being thick but laseresque, which simply implies that due to the geometry of the knife it cuts like it's thinner than it actually is. This usually refers to knives with some kind of convex grind.

Well, I guess it could be considered that as well..........................

UglyJoe
07-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Hah. I just had an image of Dr. Evil in my head - "All I wanted was some frickin' gee-ew-toes with frickin lazerbeams attached to them, ok!"

EdipisReks
07-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Har har har. ;)

It's a generic term for a knife with a very thin geometry, Usually it's applied to knives that are thin from spine all the way to the edge. Sometimes you'll hear someone talk about a knife being thick but laseresque, which simply implies that due to the geometry of the knife it cuts like it's thinner than it actually is. This usually refers to knives with some kind of convex grind.

or a knife with an extreme taper.