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View Full Version : Nice pair in Damascus and a San mai Santoku



WillC
07-09-2011, 10:37 AM
I made a pair of these to commission and decided to make a couple more. I can't remember the exact names do I will call them the pointy Slicey one and the choppy slicey one.:laugh:
I made the Damascus from 15n20 and plain carbon, from scrap bandsaws from underholm.
It is a W's pattern but the final stack is forged out with the W's length ways down the billet, This unravels the W's leaving areas of waves to the pattern.
Pointy one is 160mm cutting edge,31mm deep and 1.8mm thick on the spine. Full flat ground to a very fine edge then convexed and polished.
The Chopper is 115mm cutting edge, 49mm deep and about 1.2mm on the spine. This is ground to about half way up, again very fine edge and convexed and polished.
Wood work I am less set up for so these ones are bought in but do the job nicely.
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMG_1628.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMG_1629.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMG_1630.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMG_1631.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMG_1632.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0849.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0876.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0877.jpg
This one is an En45 and Mild steel San mai. Fullered to get a bit of movement. Flat ground to virtually zero then convexed and polished. Cutting edge is 180, 55mm deep and 2mm on the spine.
I use one of these of my making and it get the most use out of any of my knives, very versatile. As it has a little convex it is capable of harder tasks without chipping out. En45 is very very good in this respect also.
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0880.jpghttp://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0879.jpghttp://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0882.jpghttp://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0881.jpg
All these knives are maintained on a pasted strop, I find that is all that is required. To Hone them I use a 1K king stone followed by a welsh slate with slurry, then strop.
Hope you don't all mind such a ramble on my first post, I'm stuck in bed with a trapped nerve and nothing much else to do.
Will

JohnnyChance
07-09-2011, 10:52 AM
Nice work Will, thanks for sharing!

Jim
07-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Welcome aboard Will.

Thanks for the photos!

Dave Martell
07-09-2011, 11:35 AM
Welcome and thanks for sharing your work with us. :)

WillC
07-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Thank Guys, I've looked up what they are called although i'm sure they are far from traditional.... a large petty and a small chka-bch. Would like to get into making some nicer handles myself for them at some point. I see there are some threads on here regarding handles so i'll have a look. I make Mokume from time to time so that could go well for them as bolsters/spacers.

jm2hill
07-09-2011, 11:55 AM
welcome. these look great

Mike Davis
07-10-2011, 01:24 AM
Welcome! Nice looking stuff!

AnxiousCowboy
07-10-2011, 02:43 AM
Wow, that last knife is beautiful!

WillC
07-10-2011, 10:39 AM
Thanks Guys for the support. I'm a full time Artist blacksmith, I make these mostly in my spare time. Especially the damascus which can be very time consuming, especially if it goes wrong. I sell a few blades on British Blades Forum when I get them finished. But its just a side line at the moment. I imagine for a professional chef stainless steel would be a must, but at the moment I like my carbon steels, for ease of HT and I like they way they hold an edge. I made a Straight razor out of this same steels recently and took it to 63HRC. The edge still flexed without chipping when pressed on brass, so thats good enough for me.

Pensacola Tiger
07-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Thanks Guys for the support. I'm a full time Artist blacksmith, I make these mostly in my spare time. Especially the damascus which can be very time consuming, especially if it goes wrong. I sell a few blades on British Blades Forum when I get them finished. But its just a side line at the moment. I imagine for a professional chef stainless steel would be a must, but at the moment I like my carbon steels, for ease of HT and I like they way they hold an edge. I made a Straight razor out of this same steels recently and took it to 63HRC. The edge still flexed without chipping when pressed on brass, so thats good enough for me.

You'd be surprised by how many pros use and prefer carbon steel over stainless.

Rick

AnxiousCowboy
07-10-2011, 12:35 PM
I'm a full time Artist blacksmith--I imagine for a professional chef stainless steel would be a must
I'm a chef for a living and all of my 'serious' knives are white carbon steel. I only have one stainless that is a beater/line knife. Just send me the knife I complimented you on and I'll let you know how it holds up in a fast paced professional kitchen :) :)

Burl Source
07-10-2011, 02:56 PM
I agree with everyone else.
Very good looking knives.
I am sure we all would look forward to seeing more of your work.
Thank You for posting the photos.

WillC
07-10-2011, 03:53 PM
Thanks very much, good to hear carbon steel still has its place. I'll be making some more soon. Probably doing some more San mai. I do them in damascus whenever I find a pattern that doesn't get ruined by forging it down to 2mm or less.
Will

WillC
07-10-2011, 04:01 PM
I agree with everyone else.
Very good looking knives.
I am sure we all would look forward to seeing more of your work.
Thank You for posting the photos.

Just seen some of the lovely woods on your website. I really want to start doing my own
handles for the top end ones soon. Do you do anything in 25-30mm square?

WillC
07-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm a chef for a living and all of my 'serious' knives are white carbon steel. I only have one stainless that is a beater/line knife. Just send me the knife I complimented you on and I'll let you know how it holds up in a fast paced professional kitchen :) :)
When I have been on here a bit longer, a pass-around could be a very good idea. Realistically the damascus ones are just nice to have. The San Mai ones will be the workhorse go to knife. I'll be doing some more of these in en42j and mild steel. This time i'll add a strip of 15n20(shiny one) to punch up the weld line a bit.

Burl Source
07-11-2011, 08:07 PM
Just seen some of the lovely woods on your website. I really want to start doing my own
handles for the top end ones soon. Do you do anything in 25-30mm square?

Most will be a bit larger.
A lot could be split to yield 2 blocks that size.
I am new to kitchen knives so most of my wood is cut to sizes needed with regular fixed blade knives.
Some pieces will work for both types of knives.
These guys are slowly but surely teaching me about kitchen knives.

Eamon Burke
07-11-2011, 10:44 PM
When I have been on here a bit longer, a pass-around could be a very good idea.

Did I just hear the P-word?! :drool:

WillC
07-12-2011, 08:42 PM
Thanks Guys. I've found a uk source of 25mm burl woods for handles. And i've done a deal on some old blades in return for a disc grinder so I will be making custom handles soon for the damascus blades. I make my own Mokume so the top notch mascus ones will have mokume fittings. I'm thinking 3 price brackets here. 1.The simple San mai go to knives which will have the bought in handles. 2. A mid range damascus probably a san mai construction again but with 100ish layer sides. These will have a copper bolster and simple octagonal handle from a single piece of wood.
3.The top end Damascus, (some of the patterns take 8 hours to produce a billet) Will have Mokume bolster and 2 fancy woods with coloured spacers maybe mokume spacer in the middle. The tang will go all the way through on these and riveted at the back. Again Octagonal or similar I'll have to have a play.
This is not a sales thread its market research only and would like opinions on pricing. I would aim for the simple San mai's to be under 100, the Mid range damascus around 150 and the top end patterns with exotic handles around 250. Generalizing here on a blade around 170-200mm in length.

obtuse
07-12-2011, 09:18 PM
Those prices seem very reasonable to me. The most popular styles seem to be 240mm gyuto and 270mm sujihiki. How much would you charge for a 240mm sanmai convex ground gyuto?

WillC
07-13-2011, 05:52 PM
Thanks Obtuse, I assume you mean chisel ground on one side and a slight hollow to the other? Or do you mean a full convex grind both sides then a secondary bevel . I'm not set up with wheels at the moment. I only use a flat platen. At the moment all my knives are full flat ground or nearly full leaving a bit of texture at the top. I leave an edge as fine as possible probably 0.25mm or there abouts on the grind. Then convex the final edge on polishing. This works for me and gets good feedback from folks who have used them versus traditional 14 degree single bevel. It is still very very slicey but a bit more robust against damaging the edge for slightly heavier tasks or by accident. That is probably the way it will be for now and that is my little angle on the Japanese style knife which is something a bit different. I will need to build a multi-wheel grinder at some point as I also make a type of damascus straight razor. Its a full wedge at the moment but it would be nice with a bit of a hollow, or just a fuller up the middle.
Cheers
Will

TB_London
07-17-2011, 06:18 PM
Hi will, nice to see you over here :D
I can't wait for my petty to be finished :D (the one in the pics was nearly mine)
The guys here would be my number 1 recommendation for any knife questions, they are great people with immense knowledge.
In terms of handles, please don't use the ones from Dick, after producing excellent knives it is a shame not put a handle on them to match....it will affect the prices people will be willing to pay as well IMO especially if you are selling to people not used to Japanese Ho handles.

And to everyone else reading, I'll put a review of the petty up when it arrives, feel free to make any requests or ask any questions when I do, i sketched the profile so I'm hoping it functions how I intended it too.....

TB_London
07-17-2011, 06:31 PM
http://db.tt/E3PhNlq

http://db.tt/Z1KyuG0


Some pics of the santoku with a lacewood and ebony handle with some of Will's mokume as an endcap.

In the top pic next to a Carter with a Stefan handle in koa, my current reference point for rehandling....

I made it a little chunkier as I have largish hands but the balance point is just still just in front of the handle

WillC
07-17-2011, 06:59 PM
Thanks Man, there is just sooo much to drink in on here its great. You'll be pleased to hear I swapped a couple of my prototype blades for a disc sander. I have a busy weekend, got a good few more blades done and turned out a nice tapered octagonal handle prototype. So I will not be using dicks any more. They will just be a single piece of wood, but this one feels great and looks really nice I think with the blade I matched it with. Got some nice burls on the way to play with. Also squashed and patterned a chunk of Mokume today, so yours will be with you shortly, just a final polish and an etch.
Atb Will