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SpikeC
07-17-2011, 06:32 PM
I'm sure that I am the only one who doesn't know this, but what is the significance of the 3 circles that appear on Carter, Kramer, and some other knives?

Ichi
07-17-2011, 06:48 PM
Mitsuboshi Trademark symbol for "three stars", registered in the 3rd year of the Keicho era (1598).

From Carters site.

SpikeC
07-17-2011, 07:00 PM
Thanks, but that doesn't really tell me much.

goodchef1
07-17-2011, 07:16 PM
The first circle represents PEACE: The tranquility of artisian and his/her craft, the union between the maker and creation

The second circle is STRENGTH: The passion and power singularly focused into manipulating matter led by the spirit and soul

The third circle is ENLIGHTENMENT: The total sum of all that is created joined together in complete harmony as maker become one with his/her creation.
PS: Just kidding, I have no idea what these mean:wink:

kalaeb
07-17-2011, 07:16 PM
From kramerknives.com

"The number three is a magic number in many cultures and it plays a big role in my heat treatment; it also represents the nuclear family, the tripod, and the mind, body and spirit connection. The mosaic pin is a powerful symbol that represents peace and culture."

spinblue
07-17-2011, 07:30 PM
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. :)

Eamon Burke
07-17-2011, 07:34 PM
It is all of the above, and none of the above. It's denotative meanings are almost infinite, since 3 rocks scattered on the ground often make that pattern. But It's connotative meanings will differ from each different maker.

I would venture to day that Carter uses it because it is simple and elegant, and has a Trinitarian aspect to it, a Christian(among others) concept.

I would like to know if there is some kind of specific reason why they chose those designs.

Not to be mean, but I always assumed that since Kramer puts the design inside another circle and uses it for pinstock, it's because it is simple pinstock to obtain.

SpikeC
07-17-2011, 07:53 PM
Given the information from Carters site about the three stars origin in Japan I don't buy the "trinity" explanation. And Kramer's explanation is pretty open ended.

EdipisReks
07-17-2011, 08:02 PM
the first circle is for snapping turtles, the second circle is for box turtles and the third circle is for sea turtles. universal turtle symbols.

SpikeC
07-17-2011, 08:11 PM
OK, now that makes sense!

EdipisReks
07-17-2011, 08:13 PM
as much sense as anything else, anyway ;)

Ichi
07-17-2011, 08:40 PM
This symbol can be seen on the swords of Japanese nobility.
The number three has quite a set of phenomena.
Three, therefore, stands for that which is solid, real, substantial, complete, and entire.
Three denotes divine perfection; hence the three circles points us to what is real, essential, perfect, substantial, complete, and Divine :thumbsup2:

Delbert Ealy
07-17-2011, 11:05 PM
the first circle is for snapping turtles, the second circle is for box turtles and the third circle is for sea turtles. universal turtle symbols.

This one really made me laugh How about one for great A'Tuin?

ThEoRy
07-17-2011, 11:32 PM
He doesn't know how to use the three shells..... ;)

ecchef
07-17-2011, 11:51 PM
Damn...I thought for sure it was in homage to Ballantine Ale! :O

oivind_dahle
07-18-2011, 06:35 AM
The three stars, not circles :)

Three stars are a symbol of victory. Three stars are also used to represent the Orion constellation. There are also link to three generals. however I ecpext Jason to chip in some info from Murray himself.

Mitsuboshi means:
Mitsu = Three
Boshi = Star

You might find some info here:
http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/sizen/hoshi.htm

Ancient Japanese Astronomy and Mythology
Stars that played a significant role in the lives of common citizens in Japan were often given the distinction of being called Yowatashi Boshi or passing the night stars. This phrase was applied to prominent star groups which would appear in the East at sunset and set with the dawning sun. Orion is certainly one of the most noticeable Yowatashi Boshi in the sky.

In most every culture, it is easily recognized and continues to grab the attention of children and adults throughout the long winter nights. The grouping of stars that form the constellation, most especially the three belt stars or Mitsu Boshi have played a major role in Japan's cultural heritage with the sky.

As one of many groups of stars with which Japanese formed associations, Orion is a particularly rich "case study" in the ways in which Japanese historically made the sky a part of their lives. In the case of Orion, Japanese have seen few if any individual gods or heroes or even mythological creatures within the constellation as a whole but rather icons of common knowledge or use and symbols of specific cultural values and attributes.

While some star lore reflects a kind of national "consciousness", there is no singular Japanese interpretation of the star patterns but rather a variety of objects, memorialized events, seasonal markers, symbols of religious value, and legends based on particular geographical regions and functional needs of ordinary citizens

Link: http://www.crystalinks.com/japanastronomy.html


Heres a thread from another forum
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3930.html

Marko Tsourkan
07-18-2011, 09:34 AM
Three circle makes a better story and a good story teller is a successful seller. If you don't believe it, then why are we talking about them here?

But since we are talking knives here (indirectly), for me personally, three circles would symbolize a good Heat Treatment where three major components are balanced out
- Good edge stability
- Good hardness
- Good wear resistance

It goes without saying that a steel suited best for kitchen cutlery would be selected.

M

jackslimpson
07-18-2011, 10:25 AM
The three stars, not circles :)

Three stars are a symbol of victory. Three stars are also used to represent the Orion constellation. There are also link to three generals. however I ecpext Jason to chip in some info from Murray himself.

Mitsuboshi means:
Mitsu = Three
Boshi = Star



Interesting, because the car maker MitsuBISHI has three little diamonds as its logo. I mean, who would want to drive a MitsuBOSHI. That's why ToyoDA family name is ToyoTA on the cars, and Matsushita is Panasonic in the US.

Kramer and Carter use these 3 circles. Pawn brokers have used three cherries for centuries. Slot machines use the three cherries as well. There's alot of people in on this ... I wonder how far it goes.

Cheers,

Jack

SpikeC
07-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!

ecchef
07-18-2011, 05:33 PM
Three circle makes a better story and a good story teller is a successful seller. If you don't believe it, then why are we talking about them here?

But since we are talking knives here (indirectly), for me personally, three circles would symbolize a good Heat Treatment where three major components are balanced out
- Good edge stability
- Good hardness
- Good wear resistance

It goes without saying that a steel suited best for kitchen cutlery would be selected.

M

Thank you Marko. I like the cut of your jib! :my2cents:

El Pescador
07-18-2011, 06:04 PM
They mean you

El Pescador
07-18-2011, 06:06 PM
You paid 3x too much for the knife...

mc2442
07-18-2011, 11:45 PM
I am sorry to whoever else answered....but I am going with the turtle explanation. Just seems so simple after it was explained. How could anyone argue?

ecchef
07-19-2011, 01:47 AM
You paid 3x too much for the knife...

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::l ol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

Good one, Pescador!