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View Full Version : #1 is Done - FINALLY!!



Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 02:05 PM
After many many many problems and a lot of learning curve and even more hard knocks I've finally got knife #1 finished and ready to go. Is it exactly the way I want it though? No - not quite - but it's as best as I can do for my first attempt at making a knife.

A few of the issues....

1. Bolsters

I wanted to go with mokume bolsters but this just isn't going to happen. I'll use mokume in the future for sure but it's too great of a loss to keep experimenting with at the moment.

On the plus side I've made my standard option (linen micarta) work just fine and is giving me just the look I wanted. This is what I had planned to use after the first 12 were done in mokume.

I'm not so certain that I love the silver pin in the bolster though, any thoughts on this?



2. Edge Length

It started out as a 240mm but I snapped off a good bit of heal by mistake and had to shorten the blade as a result. It's now 233mm.


3. Choil/Bolster spacing

Due to the length shortening I had to adjust this area as well. Normally I would prefer a western bolster to be closer to the choil.


4. Logo/Markings

They didn't come out nearly as nice as I had hoped for. I did some practice runs which I really screwed up on so this is a huge improvement but still they're light. I guess not bad for a first though.



5. Tang

The tang is a little too thick for my liking, it brings the weight back into the handle a bit too much. Fortunately the switch from mokume to micarta brought the balance point back out to 1" in from of the bolster - phew!

Knife #2 can't be corrected for this either (scales are already on) but the rest will have thinned tangs from then on out.


So what do you think? :)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1096&d=1311095124

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1091&d=1311095101

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1093&d=1311095109

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1092&d=1311095104

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1096&d=1311095124

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1090&d=1311095098

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1095&d=1311095119

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1094&d=1311095115

oivind_dahle
07-19-2011, 02:08 PM
I think you did good :)

The logo shouldn´t be underlined....

EdipisReks
07-19-2011, 02:12 PM
looks good, Dave.

Jim
07-19-2011, 02:12 PM
Woo! Looks great.

JohnnyChance
07-19-2011, 02:22 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lmtzhc6-9No/TiW-zoD2HbI/AAAAAAAAAwU/YTBY77xNQ_M/s800/gk324_flying-pig-rgb-final_lr_web.jpg

Well done Dave! I like the logo and the underlining, reminds me of 1950's logos and advertising.

The silver pin through the black linen looks okay, maybe a mosiac might look better?

unkajonet
07-19-2011, 02:29 PM
Damned fine job! Looks great! And +1 on the logo.

El Pescador
07-19-2011, 02:33 PM
Looking good Dave. I like the spalted maple.

SpikeC
07-19-2011, 03:11 PM
Very cool! And that logo looks great!

HHH Knives
07-19-2011, 03:18 PM
That's a really nice looking #1!! Great job Dave.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words guys. :)

It's funny about the logo as I anguished over this decision for ages and finally went with this design pretty much for the reason that Jonnychance noted why he liked it. Doing the logo design and actually marking the knife has been the hardest mental part for me by far.

So what about the silver pin in the bolster? I have some micarta pins on the way which will blend in better but I'm wondering if anyone likes the silver or if it's just a matter of that's OK....what's your preference? John mentioned a mosaic pin which I considered but didn't do on this one because the center handle pin is mosaic.

EdipisReks
07-19-2011, 04:04 PM
i think the pin in the bolster is just fine. if the bolster is going to have a pin, i would prefer that it be silver. having it stand out makes it stand out less, if that makes sense.

kalaeb
07-19-2011, 04:08 PM
Dave, that looks great! :thumbsup:

I personally like the pin in the bolster, but think it could be smaller. Maybe just an 3/16.

Overall, very impressive.

l r harner
07-19-2011, 04:13 PM
never had the balls for silver nic-silver or SS but not silver

Pensacola Tiger
07-19-2011, 04:14 PM
Try one without any pin at all - just AcraGlas.

oivind_dahle
07-19-2011, 04:20 PM
I hope I didnt offend you Dave.

I have no clue why you underline the logo, its so.....eh....1990.
Underlining is almost not used anymore. If you want to draw attention we in 2010 use bold to show the importance. But if you feel like underlining is the way to go you should do that. But as I think the font already draws attention, I have no idea why you underline things. Things can get to much, yet simple style is still the best. See Bill Burke and Devin :)

mhlee
07-19-2011, 04:21 PM
I would prefer that the bolster is all black without the silver pin. Just MHO.

Otherwise, it looks great! :thumbsup:

How did you end up grinding the knives?

apicius9
07-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Not bad :) I like te pin but also would likle to see a slightly smaller version and then decide. Mosaic pin would be too much. In a less busy handle, I can also see red liners and a red pin.

Stefan

so_sleepy
07-19-2011, 04:30 PM
I don't like the pin in the bolster and the micarta doesn't compliment the wood very well. Why not try a pinned stainless bolster?

Kyle
07-19-2011, 04:35 PM
I don't like the pin in the bolster and the micarta doesn't compliment the wood very well. Why not try a pinned stainless bolster?

I think stainless or something similar would look better as well.

Dave, any chance that by, say, knife #19 you'll be able to offer mokume bolsters as an option? :)

bprescot
07-19-2011, 04:35 PM
I also tend to prefer no pin. I don't know, the pin just makes the bolster look smaller ... or is it just me. Anyway, I viewed the below and your pic side by side and think I prefer the below.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F8c6ATw0AO4/TiXeM7n3XeI/AAAAAAAAAKY/mwmIkHpay60/s800/Untitled.jpg

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:41 PM
I personally like the pin in the bolster, but think it could be smaller. Maybe just an 3/16.




It is 3/16" LOL :D

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:42 PM
No offense taken Oivind!

Keep the comments coming - I WANT feedback! :)

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:42 PM
I think stainless or something similar would look better as well.

Dave, any chance that by, say, knife #19 you'll be able to offer mokume bolsters as an option? :)


Mmmmmmmaybe! :tongue:

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:43 PM
Stefan I also thought red as well for liners but not the pins. I was also picturing copper liners and pins.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:47 PM
I also tend to prefer no pin. I don't know, the pin just makes the bolster look smaller ... or is it just me. Anyway, I viewed the below and your pic side by side and think I prefer the below.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F8c6ATw0AO4/TiXeM7n3XeI/AAAAAAAAAKY/mwmIkHpay60/s800/Untitled.jpg


Nice photoshop Ben, I think I prefer this too.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:51 PM
How did you end up grinding the knives?


The knives are triple beveled up the sides in what I can only find words to describe as "modified convex". They're damn near almost flat with the slightest of bevels ground and then blended. The bevels on the side of the blade are done very much like the Japanese grind their knives using only applied pressure to set the bevels. When I run my fingers down the blade I feel a slight convex but when using a straight edge (spine to edge) I see the bevels clearly.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
Oh I almost forgot - the best part is how sharp this thing is and how easy it sharpened - VERY nice on both counts. :bliss:

oivind_dahle
07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
Well you now have my opinion. I would like a more personal logo. Martell is for me a cognac...

I would like "Dave" or "Dave Martell"

I like the font, but not the glowing. Cool D
http://r20.cooltext.com/rendered/cooltext541974755.jpg

monty
07-19-2011, 05:08 PM
Love the logo. Keep it as is. The knife looks great, too. Well done!!

monty
07-19-2011, 05:10 PM
The knives are triple beveled up the sides in what I can only find words to describe as "modified convex". They're damn near almost flat with the slightest of bevels ground and then blended. The bevels on the side of the blade are done very much like the Japanese grind their knives using only applied pressure to set the bevels. When I run my fingers down the blade I feel a slight convex but when using a straight edge (spine to edge) I see the bevels clearly.

How do you suggest folks sharpen? Is it possible to reproduce the three bevels, or do you suspect most folks will cut right through that and leave a typical bevel(s)? Or would you suggest convexing?

mainaman
07-19-2011, 05:23 PM
Dave this looks great.

WildBoar
07-19-2011, 05:47 PM
Congrats, Dave! I think the handle looks too busy with that pin in the bolster, though.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 05:50 PM
How do you suggest folks sharpen? Is it possible to reproduce the three bevels, or do you suspect most folks will cut right through that and leave a typical bevel(s)? Or would you suggest convexing?


There's only one edge bevel. The three bevels are up the side of the knife and will not come into play with sharpening.

tk59
07-19-2011, 06:07 PM
I have no business commenting but I can't say I like the micarta either and aesthetically, odd numbers are generally preferred for most things. If you want to put a noticeable pin in the bolster like that maybe it would work if you lost on of the other pins in the handle.

Marko Tsourkan
07-19-2011, 06:38 PM
Looking good, Dave.

I wouldn't put any marking on the blade besides' maker's mark. Most people who will buy your knives will know what steel you used and most probably won't care if it cryo treated or not, as long as the performance lives up to the expectation.

I would also use micarta pins in the bolster, so they are as least visible as possible. Otherwise, the handle looks too busy taking away from the wood figure. Damn, I just saw that David posted the same thing, almost word for word. Funny.

M

monty
07-19-2011, 06:40 PM
There's only one edge bevel. The three bevels are up the side of the knife and will not come into play with sharpening.

Now that I think about it, we covered this in your class (if I could find a good emoticon for shame, I'd insert it here). I misunderstood your post. My bad!

Line cooked
07-19-2011, 06:49 PM
That is sweet knife and congrats on finishing # 1...I am not sure how much my opinin is worth especially considering I am a huge fan of most of the work I see on this forum but I like the look without the bolster pin.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 07:22 PM
Well I think it's pretty clear that most don't care for the silver bolster pin and that's OK by me since it wasn't in the cards anyway. I had already ordered a boatload of black micarta pinstock so that's the direction I'll be going. It's real great to hear everyone's opinion on this though.

Oh BTW, I'm 100% certain that I'll use different materials for bolsters in the future but the time being micarta is going to be the stuff I'm running with.

EdipisReks
07-19-2011, 07:24 PM
I wouldn't put any marking on the blade besides' maker's mark. Most people who will buy your knives will know what steel you used and most probably won't care if it cryo treated or not, as long as the performance lives up to the expectation.

i agree, less is more.

mr drinky
07-19-2011, 07:41 PM
Oh BTW, I'm 100% certain that I'll use different materials for bolsters in the future but the time being micarta is going to be the stuff I'm running with.

I think you are just playing with us, and in the future you will offer some re-bolstering coupons once you show off some super sexy mokume bolster ;)

k.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 07:53 PM
I think you are just playing with us, and in the future you will offer some re-bolstering coupons once you show off some super sexy mokume bolster ;)

k.


:idea2:

99Limited
07-19-2011, 08:19 PM
I think your logo with that font and being underlined looks good. It would look even better if it was laser etched and that's it, no coloring of the lettering.

bprescot
07-19-2011, 08:54 PM
Yeah. I like the logo in that font. I would, however, get rid of the "cryo treated" and "O1" on the back. That's just me though.

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 09:00 PM
I'm 100% cool with not adding the stuff on the backside - less work is OK. :)

mhlee
07-19-2011, 09:04 PM
I would, however, get rid of the "cryo treated" and "O1" on the back. That's just me though.

:plus1:

We KNOW it's O1 and Cryo treated. :razz:

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 09:06 PM
What if I switch to white#1 and don't use cryo....how will you know which is which in 10 years time? :D

mano
07-19-2011, 09:11 PM
Dave,

It made me smile.

Leave out the bolster pin and cryo.

Unless it's pre-sold or you intend to keep it how about auctioning it off?

mhlee
07-19-2011, 09:15 PM
What if I switch to white#1 and don't use cryo....how will you know which is which in 10 years time? :D

:slaphead:

Smart*ss.

:chin:

I will look forward to that day! :crossfingers:

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 09:23 PM
Michael, I grew up thinking that my middle name was smartass since my Dad called me that so much, he always said that I've got an answer for everything. :D

Dave Martell
07-19-2011, 09:25 PM
Dave,

It made me smile.

Leave out the bolster pin and cryo.

Unless it's pre-sold or you intend to keep it how about auctioning it off?


This one was already sold but I offered the customer out of it yet he chose to stay with it - such loyal customers I have! :thumbsup:

sudsy9977
07-19-2011, 09:28 PM
I hope I didnt offend you Dave.

I have no clue why you underline the logo, its so.....eh....1990.
Underlining is almost not used anymore. If you want to draw attention we in 2010 use bold to show the importance. But if you feel like underlining is the way to go you should do that. But as I think the font already draws attention, I have no idea why you underline things. Things can get to much, yet simple style is still the best. See Bill Burke and Devin :)






simple is best i think also but i don't know if i would pick devin or bill's mark as a good example of that.....ryan

SteveD
07-19-2011, 10:12 PM
Hey Dave sure looks good to me. I happen to like the pin. Can't wait to see more.






steve:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Pensacola Tiger
07-19-2011, 10:15 PM
I like your maker's mark, but agree that the steel type and treatment are distracting.

For identification purposes, though, continue to serialize your knives. It would be nice when knife #116 is sold as part of an estate sale in 2037, the new owner can trace the knife back to when it was made in early 2012, and see it was made from triple-quenched 52100 steel.

tgraypots
07-19-2011, 10:39 PM
I like the bolster, especially with the dark liner and the dark areas in the wood. Underlined logo is cool too. Steel type on the blade and 4th. pin, not so much.

obtuse
07-19-2011, 10:53 PM
I like the steel type, It's nice to know it's cryo too.

kalaeb
07-20-2011, 12:01 AM
It is 3/16" LOL :D

Doh! It looks bigger because it is so shiny.

ecchef
07-20-2011, 01:57 AM
Well done Dave! I like the logo and the underlining, reminds me of 1950's logos and advertising.


I totally agree with this. Don't change it. This is all the info you need on the blade.

However, I really don't like the micarta bolsters at all. If it absolutely has to be, then maybe two small pins, top & bottom, like Pierre or Phil Wilson does. Maybe if it was faux ivory...?

You really can't beat the look of mokume. I'd be willing to cover the cost of 'mistakes' on mine to keep that option.

Looks great otherwise. :my2cents:

stevenStefano
07-20-2011, 07:00 AM
I think this looks awesome and I basically agree with everyone. Numbering all the knives is a great idea. Is your name silk screened or engraved? I think proper engraved logos are sort of a sign of quality when I buy knives

ecchef
07-20-2011, 09:07 AM
I stand self corrected. Martell logo & serial numbers.
If you stamped or engraved the steel type on the tang spine, now that would be the sh!t. :idea2:

Dave Martell
07-20-2011, 10:57 AM
The logo is etched using chemical + electric current. It basically burns the mark in like a branding iron would on a cow's backside. The look and feel is that of stamping.


All points being noted fellas - thanks for the feedback! :)

SpikeC
07-20-2011, 03:32 PM
The idea of putting the steel type on the tang is appealing to me. If the knife is ever thinned the info will still be there, and it is subtle butt clear.

Marko Tsourkan
07-20-2011, 03:49 PM
To get it on the tang, I think it would have to be laser engraved after the handle is finished, which adds to the cost (engraving, shipping both ways, waiting time). I also doubt that the knife would even need thinning all the way to the spine, unless you completely re-profile and make a smaller knife out of it.

If etching steel type on a blade, O1 would look better, than Cryo Treated O1 Steel


M

Dave Martell
07-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Yeah if these knives need thinning then I'm quitting right now! :D

so_sleepy
07-20-2011, 06:23 PM
I don't think it adds anything to etch the steel type.

A serial number might be ok. You could eve embed date of manufacture, steel type and other info in it.

However, I think less is better. Stick to the maker's mark on the knife and send a birth certificate along with each one with all the details.

ecchef
07-20-2011, 09:58 PM
Stick to the maker's mark on the knife and send a birth certificate along with each one with all the details.


Yeah... stick to the Makers Mark......or George Dickle! :wink:

A birth certificate? Like a Cabbage Patch Kid?!? You're scaring me Sleepy. :scared1:

kalaeb
07-20-2011, 10:28 PM
I don't think a "birth certificate"/certificate of authenticty is a bad idea. Pierre did it with one that I got from him and I thought it looked nice and was informational.

dough
07-20-2011, 10:53 PM
I totally agree with this. Don't change it. This is all the info you need on the blade.

However, I really don't like the micarta bolsters at all. If it absolutely has to be, then maybe two small pins, top & bottom, like Pierre or Phil Wilson does. Maybe if it was faux ivory...?

You really can't beat the look of mokume. I'd be willing to cover the cost of 'mistakes' on mine to keep that option.

Looks great otherwise. :my2cents:
+1
yea micarta bolster is not my favorite... maybe a different type of wood or faux ivory like had been mentioned... i dont know.

the wood on that handle looks great though.

mhenry
07-21-2011, 01:00 AM
Beautiful knife Dave!!! Like everything except the pinned bolster

oivind_dahle
07-21-2011, 06:34 AM
wrong post

Kyle
07-21-2011, 12:54 PM
Would it be possible to have options available for those that have ordered a knife? Maybe have a couple bolster materials available that you feel comfortable working with and go from there? So after the blade is ground out you can ask the person ordering the knife if they want stainless or micarta bolster, with or without pin, etc. Not sure if that's getting too complicated or not but just a thought.

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 01:14 PM
Hi Kyle,
I'd love to say yes but at this point I'm not sure I can do that. I'm trying some new things on the side so let's see where I go from here.

One of the things that isn't evident as a problem is balance. A metal bolster adds a lot of weight to what is already a handle heavy style of knife (western) and then add in a thin blade grind and heavy stabilized woods and the bolster choice can really make a difference in how the knife feels and works for you. I'm very concerned about this so the issue of having troubles fitting metal bolsters is only part of the problem that I'm trying to figure out.

I am very sorry if this black bolster option isn't exactly what you're looking for though, I really want you to get a look that suits your tastes. If it's at all possible I'll accommodate where I can.

Dave

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 01:23 PM
I just mounted black micarta bolsters to knife #2 using a black pin, we'll see soon how this looks.

obtuse
07-21-2011, 02:52 PM
I wonder if it's possible to remove more material from the tang (drill more holes) or material from the scales (hollow them out) to bring the balance forward. I think drilling some big holes in the tang Between the bolster Pins might be a possible solution.

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 03:16 PM
This gets brought up in knifemaking forums often and the consensus seems to be that the weight of the extra epoxy being held by the holes with be nearly the same as the steel removed. I've obviously never tested that so I'm just repeating what I've heard.

The better way seem to be narrowing the tang which is what I'm doing.

obtuse
07-21-2011, 03:58 PM
That makes sense. How many knives do you have on order?

Kyle
07-21-2011, 05:35 PM
Hi Kyle,
I'd love to say yes but at this point I'm not sure I can do that. I'm trying some new things on the side so let's see where I go from here.

One of the things that isn't evident as a problem is balance. A metal bolster adds a lot of weight to what is already a handle heavy style of knife (western) and then add in a thin blade grind and heavy stabilized woods and the bolster choice can really make a difference in how the knife feels and works for you. I'm very concerned about this so the issue of having troubles fitting metal bolsters is only part of the problem that I'm trying to figure out.

I am very sorry if this black bolster option isn't exactly what you're looking for though, I really want you to get a look that suits your tastes. If it's at all possible I'll accommodate where I can.

Dave

Even though I mentioned that a metal bolster would look more appealing, it's not a huge concern either. I'm just brainstorming here. But I'm not concerned with little details. Honestly, when you posted the picture of the knife with the exposed pin with the mokume bolsters I didn't even notice an issue with it. If you would have shipped me that knife I would have never thought the pin was a problem.

bprescot
07-21-2011, 05:38 PM
Actually, the exposed screw kind of reminds me of the intentional bolster pin. In person, I'm sure there's absolutely no confusing them, but in photos it's not that far off! ;)

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 05:55 PM
I've heard that from a few people but yeah if you saw it in person it was pretty bad.

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 05:56 PM
How many knives do you have on order?


I'm afraid to count but I believe it's over 20.....maybe 25. :eek2:

obtuse
07-21-2011, 06:14 PM
Yikes! You'll be a grind master by knife 25!

Eamon Burke
07-21-2011, 06:24 PM
This gets brought up in knifemaking forums often and the consensus seems to be that the weight of the extra epoxy being held by the holes with be nearly the same as the steel removed. I've obviously never tested that so I'm just repeating what I've heard.


This seems like a problem with a good solution. Maybe remove entire cavities of wood, and fill them in with something lightweight and permanent? It doesn't have to be pretty, it's the interior. Maybe Great Stuff? With the low level of abuse kitchen knives see, this seems solvable.

SpikeC
07-21-2011, 08:08 PM
I have a problem with the idea that the epoxy would weigh the same as the steel. Given that steel has over 7 times the specific gravity of steel, any steel that is replaced with epoxy is going to reduce the weight. As most wood has similar weight as epoxy, maybe that is what they are talking about.

Audi's or knives
07-21-2011, 10:43 PM
Dave, looks excellent. Like others have said I prefer the look of the pin-less bolster. Logo looks good, I'd skip the steel info on there to save time/work. All in all it looks like one hell of a knife and if it performs as good as it looks we have another great knife option.

What is your expected timeframe to finish each knife from this point on?

apicius9
07-21-2011, 10:46 PM
This seems like a problem with a good solution. Maybe remove entire cavities of wood, and fill them in with something lightweight and permanent? It doesn't have to be pretty, it's the interior. Maybe Great Stuff? With the low level of abuse kitchen knives see, this seems solvable.


You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people ;)

Stefan

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 11:04 PM
Dave, looks excellent. Like others have said I prefer the look of the pin-less bolster. Logo looks good, I'd skip the steel info on there to save time/work. All in all it looks like one hell of a knife and if it performs as good as it looks we have another great knife option.

What is your expected timeframe to finish each knife from this point on?


I'm reluctant to say....or even guess.

Thanks for the feedback!

Dave Martell
07-21-2011, 11:05 PM
You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people ;)

Stefan


That's it.....now I'm saving them up.....all for you again. :razz:

Burl Source
07-22-2011, 12:06 AM
I think you did good :)

The logo shouldn´t be underlined....

I thought that was a link.
Kept clicking on it but nothing happened.

Beautiful knife Dave.
If I could give an opinion from a cosmetic point of view?
The Martell & # marking look good, like a handmade limited edition.
But.......the cryo treated and O1 steel markings start to give it the look of a factory production knife.

I am probably way off base, but that was my first impression.

I like the plain silver pin in the bolster and only 1 mosaic pin in the handle.

Vertigo
07-22-2011, 12:11 AM
You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people ;)

Stefan
I sent him my last knife packed in luxurious, high end lime green packing peanuts, and the bastard had the unmitigated audacity to return the knife with his crappy ones mixed into mine.

I was appalled.

:nono:

PierreRodrigue
07-22-2011, 12:57 AM
I sent him my last knife packed in luxurious, high end lime green packing peanuts, and the bastard had the unmitigated audacity to return the knife with his crappy ones mixed into mine.

I was appalled.

:nono:


I swear! That man has no limits to what he'll try to get away with! Blending peanuts! :tease::pirate2: Gotta be the hair cut!

Jim
07-22-2011, 01:05 AM
Like any other "pusher" he cuts the good stuff with junk to stretch it!

Dave Martell
07-22-2011, 01:15 AM
:lmao: