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Dave Martell
03-05-2011, 11:37 AM
I need to recommend a gyuto to someone who is purchasing it as a gift for a chef friend of theirs. Since I don't know what he uses and prefers but do know that he's a pro I figure he needs stainless and likely 240mm in length.

So based on these variables what would you recommend here?

1. Stainless

2. 240mm

3. Western handled

3. Thin

4. $150 (max)

Thanks!

obtuse
03-05-2011, 11:47 AM
My vote is for a hiromoto gingami

Cadillac J
03-05-2011, 12:03 PM
JCK CarboNext...no question.

Pensacola Tiger
03-05-2011, 12:04 PM
It's not stainless, just semi-stainless, but what about the JCK CarboNext?

FryBoy
03-05-2011, 12:46 PM
JCK also has a new JCK Original 輝 KAGAYAKI VG-10 (ES) Series (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKIVG-10.html). I haven't read much about them, but they look very nice, and I trust Koki to provide a good product. Price is a couple of bucks more than the CarboNext series, but a 240 Gyuto is still well under $150 shipped.

JohnnyChance
03-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Miyabi Fusion 10"

$140

It is a little bit longer than a 240mm, but not quite as long as most 270's, 257mm edge length. Not super thin, 2.14mm spine thickness at the heel. I think it makes a good line knife that you dont have to worry about being too thin for certain tasks. Spine and choil nicely rounded, comfy western handle.

Chef Niloc
03-05-2011, 02:11 PM
270mm DP

iceman01
03-05-2011, 03:05 PM
JCK also has a new JCK Original 輝 KAGAYAKI VG-10 (ES) Series (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKIVG-10.html). I haven't read much about them, but they look very nice, and I trust Koki to provide a good product. Price is a couple of bucks more than the CarboNext series, but a 240 Gyuto is still well under $150 shipped.

These have been around for more than a year I think. I own the 24cm with Wa and western handle, as well as the 15cm petty. Decent knives that take and hold a keen edge very well. And by the way, in reality, the purple looks much darker, so you don't have to fear being laughed because of purple handles.

By the time they were new, there was a long thread with lots of pictures over at KF.

thistle
03-05-2011, 04:03 PM
+1, on the JCK Kagayaki-I got it because I wanted a purple handle, but the color is very subtle, the knife is still nice. I can also recommend the Hiromoto AS & the Togiharu Inox. I tend to buy 'value priced' knives, & these 3 are all well used in my kitchen...

Dave Martell
03-05-2011, 04:16 PM
How the thickness on the Kagayaki?

unkajonet
03-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Don't know if you remember me asking about a knife I was having trouble de-burring a few months ago, but it was the Kagayaki. Lent it to a friend who wanted to take a stab at it, and he disliked it just as much. Profile is nice. It's pretty thin, but has a few fit & finish issues (spine is sharp, scales don't meet the tang flush). I ended up giving the knife away. Although I don't have one, I think the CarboNext would probably be a better bet. If there's a way to convince your friend to go a tad higher, I'd go Glestain (or maybe wait for the korin sale). Or the Tojiro DP.

Dave Martell
03-05-2011, 06:42 PM
How reactive is the CarboNext?

Pensacola Tiger
03-05-2011, 06:44 PM
How reactive is the CarboNext?

Not very. About like the TKCs.

FryBoy
03-05-2011, 08:15 PM
These have been around for more than a year I think. I own the 24cm with Wa and western handle, as well as the 15cm petty. Decent knives that take and hold a keen edge very well. And by the way, in reality, the purple looks much darker, so you don't have to fear being laughed because of purple handles.

By the time they were new, there was a long thread with lots of pictures over at KF.Koki posted a link on the "products" page of his site saying "Up! Feb 18th," and I assumed it was this year.

tk59
03-06-2011, 02:41 AM
I don't have a problem with the Kag blade. It's decent and on the thin side. The handle is slick and the bolster (which is not integral) has a rather large gap where rust was clearly forming. Edge holding and taking were fine, imo. I would probably go for the Miyabi Fusion (if you want pretty), Tojiro, CarboNEXT or Fujiwara. I tested a CarboNEXT for reactivity. Vinegar for 30 min leaves a light gray spot hardly perceptible after wiping with a kitchen cloth. Lime juice for thirty minutes leaves a light brown/gray spot that does not wipe off. It does not discolor food.

BTW, Koki has been peddling the new "ES" service. Extra sharp apparently is mediocre according to some. The regular stock edge is decent and 2 min on a 5k + strop brings it to hair-popping sharp.

Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 09:35 AM
Doesn't sound like the CarboNext is very reactive at all then?

iceman01
03-06-2011, 09:46 AM
How the thickness on the Kagayaki?
I will measure for you. But I can already tell you that the western handled version is the thinner one.

tk59
03-06-2011, 11:25 AM
Doesn't sound like the CarboNext is very reactive at all then?

The CarboNEXT I tested was MUCH less reactive than simple carbon steel. If I had to rate it, I'd say it's about 2/3 of the way to stainless, maybe more. I hope this description means something to you. It's very unscientific. :p

unkajonet
03-06-2011, 01:48 PM
What about a Mac pro? No one really talks about them anymore, but they're stainless, well built, thin but not too thin, and keeps a nice edge.

Cadillac J
03-06-2011, 02:39 PM
JCK CarboNext...no question.

I really don't think you can do better for the price and performance with a western handle, so just wanted to reiterate this.

However, you know the recipient better than us. Are they the type to leave a knife with water or acid on it for long periods of time? Do they have a proper cutting board to help protect their edges? If not, maybe a true stainless and tougher knife would fit the bill better, such as a Fujiwara FKM or Glestain?

Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 03:24 PM
I only know the chef from years ago before he started his culinary career (friend of the family) so I have no idea how he treats his tools or what his working conditions and habits are like. I know it makes more sense to stay on the safe side but I also want to blow his mind too.

kalaeb
03-06-2011, 08:30 PM
The Carbo next is not as reactive as most carbons, but will form very dull uneven patina after some use. It is substiantally more reactive than the HD from Konosuke, which is the only other semi-stainless I can compare it too. If your friend wants the shine all the time don't go for the Carbonext. But it is a great blade performance wise.

kalaeb
03-06-2011, 08:36 PM
I really need to figure out how to post some pics, I wish I could show you mine.

Pensacola Tiger
03-06-2011, 09:23 PM
I really need to figure out how to post some pics, I wish I could show you mine.

What website is hosting your pics? If it's Photobucket, the steps are:

1. Make sure you've allowed public access from the album options dropdown in Photobucket.

2. In Photobucket, click on "Direct link" in the window that pops up when you mouseover the pic you want to post; this copies the images address to your clipboard for the next step.

3. Back in the forum, when you're composing a post, click on the Image icon (it's the one with the tree in a square). An image address window will pop up.

4. Paste the direct link you copied from Photobucket into the address field.

5. Click on "Go Advanced" so you can preview your post and pic.

If it's another service, like Picasa or Flickr, the process is similar, but the steps probably aren't identical.

tk59
03-06-2011, 11:55 PM
I tested a Kikuichi TKC, Konosuke HD and CarboNEXT side by side for reactivity vs vinegar then lime juice. The result was pretty clear. None of them were particularly reactive but TKC was less reactive than HD which is less reactive than CN. Supposedly CarboNEXT = TKC, however, my particular pieces do not support that idea. CarboNEXT is a semi-stainless steel, not a carbon steel, per se.

bprescot
03-07-2011, 04:12 PM
The CN isn't very reactive at all. In fact, to say that it forms a patina is slightly misleading, as it's a very non-traditional patina. I'd say that like the Gokinko, you can discolor it somewhat, but like the gokinko active rust won't be an issue provided your habits are a quarter step above atrocious. As for the kagayaki, I had the wa and never had a problem sharpening it. It wasn't really thin, but wasn't thick either. It was a nice kinda use and abuse knife, but I hated the painted logo and the dead profile of the blade. Sold it to a guy over at FF, that is still raving about it some months later. Wasn't my favorite knife, but I do have to say that edge retention was pretty nice on that knife. It had an edge that just wouldn't quit.

mikemac
03-07-2011, 05:57 PM
If this is the Hiro G3 series...this is an outstanding blade for the money, and they could charge more....

I picked one up for the beach house and every time I use it I'm awed...thin sharp, really good F&F for ootb J-knives, sharpens up easily and gets sharp,(and I'm no DR.Sharp)

I can't comment about the 'mock' TKC's but the Ichi TKC is more stainless than semi. The few blemishes I have look more like water spots, so there you go.


My vote is for a hiromoto gingami

Eamon Burke
03-07-2011, 06:55 PM
Sounds like you're looking for a converter. I'd go with the DP, it's fairly idiot-proof and cuts like crazy. I've found it to be a snap to sharpen too.

Dave Martell
03-07-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm so torn on this decision. I can't believe the torment of picking this knife.

unkajonet
03-07-2011, 11:12 PM
Can you convince them to go to $200?

Dave Martell
03-07-2011, 11:26 PM
Nope, the budget stands firm.

iceman01
03-08-2011, 10:56 AM
So I broke out the calipers, here are measurements of the Kagayaki VG-10 24cm chef knives.

Measured at the spine: heel, 1/2, tip
western: 2.1mm, 1.8mm, 0.4mm
WA: 2.35mm, 2.2mm, 0.4mm

about .5mm behind the edge: heel, 1/2, tip
western: .4mm, .3mm, .2mm
WA: .45mm, .35mm, .2mm

chazmtb
03-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Henckels fusion. Great fit and finish. Kinda like the hattori FH for 40% less.10 inches for 140. Love the handle and the reground choi. Did I mention great fit and finish. If I were recommending for a friend I would go with the fusion.

Chef Niloc
03-08-2011, 12:03 PM
These have been around for more than a year I think. I own the 24cm with Wa and western handle, as well as the 15cm petty. Decent knives that take and hold a keen edge very well. And by the way, in reality, the purple looks much darker, so you don't have to fear being laughed because of purple handles.

By the time they were new, there was a long thread with lots of pictures over at KF.

I just took a look at this. If I was not a knife nut I would be totally wowed by this knife. But I stand by a 270mm, most pros like a bigger knife. Think of how many pros over the years have joined looking for a " really big chef knife". I'm not saying that a 360mm knife is more useful just saying size is impressive.

olpappy
03-08-2011, 08:33 PM
Most western handled gyutos are pretty similar in their blade profile, the differences are subtle. If you want to impress someone who's never used a Japanese gyuto before and are also on a budget, I would pick either the Fujiwara FKM as a true stainless which has impeccable FF, or if you wanted to go with a semi-stainless, I would pick the Kikuichi TKC.