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View Full Version : Whats your favorite super petty?



Mattias504
07-22-2011, 03:48 PM
So I have been feeling lately that I need to get a long petty or short sujihiki. You know, something in the 180-210mm range. Probably wa handled and carbon vs stainless doesnt matter as much to me but I do love steels that sharpen easily and are responsive to stropping. I touch up my knives on the stones pretty often so crazy edge retention isn't my top priority.

What knives do you guys use for these purposes? I haven been looking around and the Gesshin Ino 180mm pettys(especially the single bevel one) and the Heiji 210 suji are peaking my interest. Hmmmm:tongue:

Cadillac J
07-22-2011, 03:57 PM
210 Suisin Inox Honyaki...one of my most-used knives.

Love it so much, but I'm sure Kono HD or Gesshin Ginga would be just the same.

You are a sujihiki main-knife kinda guy like myself, correct?

Crazy as it might sound, but a 240 suji has been on my mind lately as a replacement for my 210 petty, but it would be too much overlap with my 270 and 300 sujis to really justify...then again, I'd find a way to fit it in and use them all per usual.

tk59
07-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I like all of the options you guys have proposed. I was close getting all of them at one point or another. Here's a couple more options I've tried recently. Adam made a 240 mm suji out of AEB-L that was very nicely put together. His grind was flat and a little uneven on one side but I would imagine he can fix that. Of course, we all know he makes a nice handle. The other is a 210 suji made by a guy on this forum. His handle is Rottman. This knife is flat out awesome. I'm composing a review of this one at the moment. Both of these guys price competatively.

stevenStefano
07-22-2011, 05:47 PM
I have the Sakai Yusuke White #2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Sakai-White-Steel-Wa-Sujihiki-Knife-210mm-Octa-/230644643183?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b37df56f) 210 petty and it is very very good. It is very thin and has great fit and finish. There aren't a whole lot of 210 pettys and I'm definitely gonna buy another in the future

Pensacola Tiger
07-22-2011, 06:30 PM
One vote for the Konosuke HD.

jm2hill
07-22-2011, 07:27 PM
I just bought the Gesshin Ino last week and I'll get it on monday! I'll report back and let you know. Single bevel petty - yanagiba combo sounded awesome to me!

TB_London
07-22-2011, 07:53 PM
My first custom has just arrived (3 hours ago) and it's a carbon damascus 180mm petty, pics will follow once i've put a handle on it. Needless to say i'm itching to see how it will perform :D but i'm hoping it will fill the gap between my 120ish petties and my 240 gyuto/270 suji, plus it looks awesome

Lefty
07-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Who made it???

mainaman
07-22-2011, 08:18 PM
210mm Sakai Yusuke white 2 suji from Blueway Japan

Seb
07-22-2011, 08:32 PM
I have the Sakai Yusuke White #2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Sakai-White-Steel-Wa-Sujihiki-Knife-210mm-Octa-/230644643183?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b37df56f) 210 petty and it is very very good. It is very thin and has great fit and finish. There aren't a whole lot of 210 pettys and I'm definitely gonna buy another in the future

One reason the Yusuke line is special is that the handles are epoxied rather than burnt in. It's the major difference between it and my Ashi (which is burnt and with slightly less perfect F&F).

However, my current favorite petty is a Tanaka Blue#2 Wa-petty from 330mate (who takes custom orders and you can also get them in Ginsanko and VG-10, IIRC you can also order an upgrade to rosewood and buffalo horn instead of the standard el cheapo magnolia with plastic ferrule). What I love about the Tanaka is the perfect profile (almost like a skinny, mini gyuto) and the steel which takes a great edge and is not too reactive.

spaceconvoy
07-22-2011, 08:37 PM
I had a Konosuke HD 210mm wa-petty, just sold it because it was the classic jack of all trades, master of none... Also, I've become convinced that wa-handles on petties are almost always awkward. They're too big for such a narrow blade, and the knife ends up being awkwardly light (if that makes sense).

That said, I think a 180 western handle petty could be very useful, and I've been eyeing this knife, in 180mm: http://www.ichimonji.co.jp/shopping/goods_detail.php?id=372

jgraeff
07-22-2011, 08:48 PM
i just got the gesshin ginga 210mm petty and its awesome, so light and thin, super sharp, and has pretty good edge retention. I love this knife, its stainless so no need to worry about certain foods, and it sharpens up pretty easy i touched it up on a 6k and its been 4 days of constant use and it still feels very sharp. the edge also seems quite durable, i have chopped herbs with it and even used it to french a rack or lamb.

I know its very similar to the kono HD which i have the gyuto version but i gotta say if i were to purchase it again i prolly would have went with the gesshin gyuto. great knives. Just my 2 cents.

Mattias504
07-22-2011, 10:54 PM
Good stuff. Thanks guys.

I'm really curious to hear about that Ino 180 yanagi. The more I think about it the more I like it. Believe it or not I worked pretty much an entire day today at the sushi bar using only my Nenox 150. Its not the best thing ever for slicing fish but its just so easy to use for everything. Awesome for cutting rolls.

Of course I want the most expensive one(Heiji) because apparently I hate saving money. Haha
It just looks functionally like the most awesome one. If its anything like Heiji's gyuto I'm sure it is.
Anybody out there pick one of these up yet?

Cipcich
07-22-2011, 11:54 PM
I acquired a 180mm Ino Wa-Petty (Yanagi style) from Jon last year.
I like the knife, but there were some initial sharpening issues. I sent it to Dave, who said it was a good thing it was short, because it was a lot of work.

JBroida
07-22-2011, 11:59 PM
I acquired a 180mm Ino Wa-Petty (Yanagi style) from Jon last year.
I like the knife, but there were some initial sharpening issues. I sent it to Dave, who said it was a good thing it was short, because it was a lot of work.

thanks to your feedback, I addressed the issue with the maker

Cipcich
07-23-2011, 01:17 AM
I still like the knife, and enjoyed doing business with Jon. In fact, I turned around and bought one of the double beveled versions as well.

ajhuff
08-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Good stuff. Thanks guys.

I'm really curious to hear about that Ino 180 yanagi. The more I think about it the more I like it. Believe it or not I worked pretty much an entire day today at the sushi bar using only my Nenox 150. Its not the best thing ever for slicing fish but its just so easy to use for everything. Awesome for cutting rolls.

Of course I want the most expensive one(Heiji) because apparently I hate saving money. Haha
It just looks functionally like the most awesome one. If its anything like Heiji's gyuto I'm sure it is.
Anybody out there pick one of these up yet?


I have a Nenox 150 petty also, western handle. I was using it today to cut beef in class for a stir fry. I can put the tip of the knife on the board and pull the knife through the beef for thin cuts faster than I can cut in anyway with a gyuto or chef knife. And faster than my classmates can with their knives. But I was thinking today, if only it was just a little longer, I might not need any other knife! It felt that good cutting with it.

Is the Nenox petty really a petty when it comes to geometry? http://korin.com/core/media/media.nl?id=32803&c=832324&h=55e9874faa8e5f0c6e44
I have a short 100mm petty and they don't look like scaled versions of each other. Is a petty and a suji basically the same knife but just called PETTY if less than 180mm and SUJI if more than 180mm?

Thanks,

-AJ

JBroida
08-01-2011, 04:24 PM
for MOST (but not all) makers, pettys and sujis are pretty much the same profile and shape... its just a size difference. There are some exceptions, but this holds true for a good number.

ajhuff
08-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Thanks Jon, as always, that helps A LOT!!!

-AJ

Seb
08-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Isn't 'petty' really short for 'petite gyuto'?

Marko Tsourkan
08-01-2011, 06:39 PM
I had a Konosuke HD 210mm wa-petty, just sold it because it was the classic jack of all trades, master of none... ...[/URL]


That is where I was heading... Why do you guys need a 210 petty? I find it the most redundant knife (size-wise) out there. I think anything over 150 is where a gyuto comes into play or a short suji (if you do trimming).


@spaceconvoy

Wa handled petties (150mm that is) are fine but a handle has to be of a right size in relation to the blade and a hand of a user and I give a D-shape handle an edge over an octagonal. Your experience is probably due to the fact that petty handles on Japanese knives rarely matched to the knife (that has been my experience and I rehandled a few), so they are either too small or too big.

M

Vertigo
08-01-2011, 06:48 PM
Isn't 'petty' really short for 'petite gyuto'?

Lol. This whole time I thought it was for "petty" tasks. I suppose your suggestion makes a lot more sense.

:jumpy:

Marko Tsourkan
08-01-2011, 07:01 PM
Lol. This whole time I thought it was for "petty" tasks. I suppose your suggestion makes a lot more sense.

:jumpy:

Petty and petty chef or gyuto (150 or 180mm) are different things. Petty chef is much taller. Carter makes those.

M

Seb
08-01-2011, 07:25 PM
Maybe it stands for 'petite sujihiki' then? :D

stevenStefano
08-01-2011, 07:57 PM
That is where I was heading... Why do you guys need a 210 petty? I find it the most redundant knife (size-wise) out there. I think anything over 150 is where a gyuto comes into play or a short suji (if you do trimming).


I guess there are different ways of looking at it, but for me personally a 210 petty is the perfect length. It is small enough to use as a petty but big enough that if I occasionally need to do some fine slicing it can still do most things. If I did more slicing I'd buy a 240 suji but I need a petty/slicer more than a slicer/petty if that makes sense. Basically I don't think a 210 petty loses any of the precision of a 150, but it gives you a reasonably able suji too

Lefty
08-01-2011, 09:45 PM
I love my pettys, but I find one thing kind of funny. Back about 6 months ago, I was trying to decide whether or not a 240 suji would be worthwhile for me, and EVERYONE said to "go big or go home". Then a couple months later, the 210 petty/suji came into vogue and now it's a must have, with 240s hot on its tail.
This really shows two things; the ever changing trends in our knifeknut world, and how important it is to go with what YOU like. I love a 175 petty, while Marko would never buy one. I personally, would get zero use out of a 300 suji, while a guy like Rick might find it indispensable (I guess in his case it's his new 270 suji, but you get the point).

tk59
08-01-2011, 10:22 PM
I find my 210 suji/petty is perfect for peeling a large fruit while holding it in my hand or cleaning small to med pieces of meat, portioning small pieces of fish, etc.

Cipcich
08-02-2011, 09:25 AM
gyuto (150 or 180mm) are different things. Petty chef is much taller. Carter makes those.

M

Indeed. But a skilled knife maker might be able to make a better one.:cool2:

Marko Tsourkan
08-02-2011, 04:11 PM
180mm gyuto is a very versatile knife. Finalizing logo, Steve, so very soon. Will send you my current logo for an opinion.

M

chazmtb
08-02-2011, 04:36 PM
I just received my Hiromoto G3 210 Sujihiki/Petty. I is a very good complement to my other two knives that I use, a 270 gyuto and a 150 petty. I received it yesterday, and my wife and I prepared Tom Yum hot pot for about 15 family members yesterday. My job was to prepare the salmon and squid for the hot pot.

I initially broke out the petty/suji to use. It was relatively thin, much thinner than a 210 gyuto, a Tojiro DP for example, would be. I think this is where the 210 suji/petty has an advantage over a 210 gyuto, especially for quick preps, and line cooks (I have never been a line cook so don't hold me to this). I did like the fact that the G3 was a mono steel, which was probably why it was thinner than san mai knives of the same price range.

One thing was appearant was that OOB sharpness was not what I am used to, but hey it's a new knife and I am using it. After slicing the salmon into 1/4 x 3 x 1 inch strips, it was time for the squid to be cut into 1/4 inch strips. This was when I broke out my TKC 270 gyuto. The factory Hiromoto's edge took too much effort to entirely cut the squid into the strips without the outer membrane still sticking. The TKC did a good job, but for a slicing motion, I would rather have a really sharp 210 to cut a 3 inch wide squid into strips.

I broke out the stones after dinner and proceeded to go 500, 1000, 3000, 8000 and strop. This was a quick sharpening job, with scratches and rubs from the 500 to 1000 stones all over the place, but I didn't care. The edge was much better, and push cut paper really well. However I will work on it a little more on the 500 stone to really thin and refine the shoulders a little bit.

From initial use, I can see this knife being very practical, especially for slicing protiens. For vegetable prep, I would use a gyuto, but this can be very useful for every day home cooks like me.

Mattias504
08-02-2011, 07:22 PM
Marko, there are some tasks and techniques that I could imagine a 210mm petty or suji being very good for. I tend to use the tip end of my knife for most tasks at work. A full service sushi bar knife must be sharp, agile and tough. With one knife you are basically seeding avocados and then slicing sashimi. I could also see that size being great for cutting maki.

Marko Tsourkan
08-02-2011, 11:08 PM
Marko, there are some tasks and techniques that I could imagine a 210mm petty or suji being very good for. I tend to use the tip end of my knife for most tasks at work. A full service sushi bar knife must be sharp, agile and tough. With one knife you are basically seeding avocados and then slicing sashimi. I could also see that size being great for cutting maki.

I guess, I just learned something new. 210 suji sounds like an interesting project.

Matt, when you say tough, do you mean the knife should not have much flex in the tip area? I took a good look at Shige petty today, and there is zero flex in the tip area, which also means the tip area is not thin. Would this be considered tough?

M

Citizen Snips
08-03-2011, 09:13 AM
I had a Konosuke HD 210mm wa-petty, just sold it because it was the classic jack of all trades, master of none... Also, I've become convinced that wa-handles on petties are almost always awkward. They're too big for such a narrow blade, and the knife ends up being awkwardly light (if that makes sense).

i think this is a great point a lot of us over-think. although i do not agree completely it is a very valid suggestion for those of you (myself included) looking for a "line knife". i wonder if the handle size for some makers has anything to do with the reasoning behind calling it a petty or a suji. ive been thinking about getting one for over a year now and cannot seem to pull the trigger on anything because im finished experimenting on expensive cutlery. i have tried many many knives and now only purchase when i have done extensive research or already tried knives.

all that said, my go-to knives are all konosuke and i have a 270mm HD but do not think it is the best idea for a 210mm petty. my options have been narrowed down to a suisin honyaki 210mm petty or sakai yusuke 210mm white 2 suji. if i could get off the fence and decide stainless or carbon the decision would be made for me

Citizen Snips
08-03-2011, 09:21 AM
That is where I was heading... Why do you guys need a 210 petty? I find it the most redundant knife (size-wise) out there. I think anything over 150 is where a gyuto comes into play or a short suji (if you do trimming).
M

i respectfully disagree. there are things in a professional kitchen that benefit from the mid-sized knife. a lot of people call them line knives and that is a great description. they are great for working a line when you dont want to have your whole kit handy. i personally do not care to use my 270mm gyuto on the line (once a month when i actually work it) because it is too big. i need something with more finesse. a 150mm does not have the ability to slice some things that we do to order. this makes it a great option to have. i would also like to note that in the past year i have become a minimalist and understand where you are coming from, i just think there is a use for this particular knife.

also i found that it would work very well for my daily jobs which is mostly fabrication of whole proteins (mostly fish, pig, lamb, and goat). my mioroshi deba does okay with some things like spanish mackerel or jon dory but i think a 210mm might fit the bill a little better.

stevenStefano
08-03-2011, 10:11 AM
ive been thinking about getting one for over a year now and cannot seem to pull the trigger on anything because im finished experimenting on expensive cutlery. i have tried many many knives and now only purchase when i have done extensive research or already tried knives.


For what it's worth I was in a similar situation for a long time, now that I have one I wish I had got one a long time ago. I used to take 2 gyutos and a petty to work, now I just take 1 gyuto and the 210 petty because I use it so much. I have the Sakai Yusuke btw

Marko Tsourkan
08-03-2011, 11:10 AM
i respectfully disagree. there are things in a professional kitchen that benefit from the mid-sized knife. a lot of people call them line knives and that is a great description. they are great for working a line when you dont want to have your whole kit handy. i personally do not care to use my 270mm gyuto on the line (once a month when i actually work it) because it is too big. i need something with more finesse. a 150mm does not have the ability to slice some things that we do to order. this makes it a great option to have. i would also like to note that in the past year i have become a minimalist and understand where you are coming from, i just think there is a use for this particular knife.

also i found that it would work very well for my daily jobs which is mostly fabrication of whole proteins (mostly fish, pig, lamb, and goat). my mioroshi deba does okay with some things like spanish mackerel or jon dory but i think a 210mm might fit the bill a little better.

Point taken, but from a maker's perspective, I would give a short suji a preference over a long petty.

Lefty
08-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Meh, poh-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe.

chazmtb
08-03-2011, 01:17 PM
Or whatever markets better and gets you more money.

Mattias504
08-03-2011, 05:49 PM
I say tough but what I mean is really more distal taper. Like somewhat thicker at the spine and thin and flexy towards the tip.

bishamon
08-04-2011, 12:26 AM
Oh, so is this the thread that generated all the interest in my suisin petty?
And I'd say a 210 suji and 210 petty are different animals. The sujihiki will feel a little sturdier and be better for carving. The 210mm wa-pettys I've tried (the suisin and an tadatsuna) are super light weight like a lightsaber, so they won't help do any of the work in terms of force.