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oivind_dahle
07-25-2011, 04:31 PM
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/893780/



Adam, Marko, Mario, Dave, Tom, C9,and anyone else who is getting into knife making, I propose that we have a competition.


So time has come....
A competition always need an ending. Im ready to see the winner :)

riverie
07-25-2011, 05:12 PM
exciting....

RRLOVER
07-26-2011, 04:51 AM
Marko,Dave,and Adam are "Pros" I am just a novice with a homemade grinder,but I am always up for a challenge.

oivind_dahle
07-26-2011, 05:39 AM
Nice!

I would like to see who got potensial to become great.
I see Dave has started to take ordes
I saw Adams name at CKTG
I know Marko is soon ready to take orders.
I know Spike got something going on...

Marko Tsourkan
07-26-2011, 11:52 AM
Marko,Dave,and Adam are "Pros" I am just a novice with a homemade grinder,but I am always up for a challenge.

Don't belittle yourself, Mario -
I know your work. :)

I don't think a competition like this makes sense anymore. Pass-arounds are probably more relevant. No two knives from different makers are ground the same, so on what criteria would be compared and evaluated? For example, to assess the performance, knvies have to have same geometry and same grind.
M

Dave Martell
07-26-2011, 12:41 PM
I don't like to think of myself as competing with anyone. I compete with myself which in my mind is a tough enough critic to satisfy.

Marko Tsourkan
07-26-2011, 12:45 PM
I don't like to think of myself as competing with anyone. I compete with myself which in my mind is a tough enough critic to satisfy.

Me too, and I am not sure I will ever. :(

M

Lefty
07-26-2011, 01:05 PM
It would be fun to watch, but I agree it's next to impossible to say which knife is "best", unless there's a clear cut winner.
With the guys here, and the skill we've seen, it would be too tight to give a definitive "#1".

WildBoar
07-28-2011, 07:09 PM
x2 on pass-arounds probably being better development and sales tools for the new makers.

tk59
07-29-2011, 01:37 AM
I don't think it would be all that hard to find a winner or a couple of winners. I think the problem is there is no advantage to participating in such a contest unless you are the winner. Everyone else would risk losing business. It would be interesting to see how many custom sales are made to relative noobs that happen to have money, find a picture of a cool-looking custom, do a quick search on the maker and buy based on that alone. If the search turned up something less than first place, how many of those sales would likely go to the winner (assuming the style points work out)? There's too much risk unless it's just a hobby project.

oivind_dahle
07-29-2011, 04:37 AM
I like competition, it keeps the makers on the edge ;)
I also like winners, I have to admit that I like high end makers and I like goodlooking knives. I also like preformance and quality. But I like a history of the knife and maker as well.

When I get my Pierre or my Burke (my first full custom knives) I can tell a story. I can tell cool stories about the making and the makers. Since I spend a lot of time around the kitchen table with friends I love telling cool stories. We like to discuss the food, the wine, the taste, the making of the food. Lots of my friend are now starting to ask for knives. One even both 2 knives from Pierre, without knowing **** about knives - he just wanted great knives.

I would like to see a winner. And I like to nominate Theory, JohnnyChance and Colin as judges. 240 Guytos.
Im willing to send in my Burke and Pierre in the contest. I want to see Devin, fowler and all the other also enter the competition.
Someone can contact Blade Magazine about it as well - I guess they would be interested.

Cipcich
07-29-2011, 05:38 AM
And, of course, by pursuing such a course, you could conceivably reduce knife making to the same level that popular television has tried to make cooking. A sport.

oivind_dahle
07-29-2011, 05:56 AM
I would like to point out for you that Gordon Ramsay, Nigella Lawson and Jamie Oliver have done far more to the world of food than Charles Tjessem, Rasmus Kofo and Fabrice Desvignes....

You may see it as a sport, I see it as marketing and branding. World depends on marketing and branding. And wouldnt it be great to have more makers compete about beeing the best? This way they earn more and we get better knives. If thats a sport, its ok for me...

Cipcich
07-29-2011, 06:06 AM
I

World depends on marketing and branding.

This is a good thing?

oivind_dahle
07-29-2011, 06:11 AM
Absolutely!

World depends on selling and buying, without this the world would stop. And that would be catastrophic! :)

apicius9
07-29-2011, 06:40 AM
Can we make them use a secret ingredient? And have Simon Cowell in the jury?

Cipcich
07-29-2011, 06:49 AM
Absolutely!

World depends on selling and buying, without this the world would stop. And that would be catastrophic! :)

No. I do not agree with you. Ramsey is a mean-spirited clown. Oliver is just a clown. What passes for culture in television America, and apparently elsewhere, is crass and stupid.
I would be surprised if any of the knife makers you say you admire buy into this crap.

Monchoon
07-29-2011, 07:28 AM
Gordon Ramsay, Nigella Lawson and Jamie Oliver

I take it your in sales or marketing, what about Pepen, or Child's they put it out there a long time ago, some got it some didn't, but it seems now it's theatrics' first rating's content later.

Now it's Gorden F-Bomb Ramsey, Nigella chocolate, and Jamie come on.:spiteful:

Marko Tsourkan
07-29-2011, 08:00 AM
I think we need to put this issue to rest. There are no people interested in participating, including myself. It was a good idea at the time, but it no longer relevant for many reasons pointed in this thread.
Thanks Oivind for trying to keep us on the edge. :)
As for all those celebrity chef names mentioned, I don't know what most of them look like, or haven't heard names before, if that tells you anything. :) They would be likely using knives from the likes of Wusthof or Shun anyway, as that's where they get their endorsements. But I do like the "mean-spirited clown" description. I had displeasure to know people like that, so I can relate.

M

The BoardSMITH
07-29-2011, 08:06 AM
As an amateur knife user, I would like to add my 2 cents worth.

This forum is a very friendly place. I fear that a competition might get a nose or two out of joint and cause the friendly atmosphere to become clouded. The last thing I want to see is any sort of a melt down or find friend facing friend in a pointless showdown.

Do the pass around thing and instead. Much less likely to offend.

sudsy9977
07-29-2011, 08:07 AM
i think a good maker keeps himself on the edge....if they know what they r doing they constantly strive to push themselves to the next level.....a contest like u r suggesting makes absolutely no sense to me.......ryan

p.s.-if u think nigella lawson has done more for the food world than u have to re-examine some things!

Pensacola Tiger
07-29-2011, 09:36 AM
Řivind,

Just something for you to ponder.

Why would you want to substitute someone else's judgement for your own?

oivind_dahle
07-29-2011, 10:29 AM
First off: I have no problem with that you guys dont want a contest. A contest will often just make more sales to the top makers, so they can make a living of what they are doing. Do you guys really think that Global sells because its so damn good knife, or is it because of marketing? And to get this contest into magazines, would make more want to buy great knives. For the makers it would be interesting to get into a bigger marked with more buyers, than just this forum. (most people here even got to many knives all ready).

Secondly: The TV shows reach out to millions of viewers, lets say 10% of the viewers become a greater home chef after watching tv shows like this. This means a lot of people get into the world of food. This is a great thing, and these people starts to demand better quality food from the stores, so that is a huge impact in the world of foods. I live in Norway, and its hard to get ie. fresh garlic outside Oslo (the capital), but if a small town got a lot of demanding home chefs, then you will find fresh garlic in small towns. If you see the big picture you will see that TV show got a HUGE impact on the common man, and for me I would like to have 10000 great home chefs from watching a tv show, than 1 amazing great unknown chef. For few dont have a impact on the food industry, but large numbers of home chefs do....
So even if you hate Gordon or Jamie, they still have a huge impact in the home marked. And if you dont have a demanding home marked, then whats the point of starting gastronomical insane places? (they will disappear as fast as the came, cause no customers, and McDonalds would just open 10 times more junkfood places)....


Lastly Rick:
People seams to lean on others judgements. Do you really think people would buy a Bob Kramer for 50 000 USD, without the judgement of others? This is how the world is put together, but judgements of others. If you are about to open a restaurant in Manhattan, I guess you would have judgement of others, marketing and branding? I have my opinions about knives, but most of my knives are bought on judgement from others, cause in Norway I cant go into a store and just try a knife. I have to read, see pics and listen to others before I buy a knife. And with A LOT of makers popping up, it would be good pointer of whom that is worth buying from :)

WildBoar
07-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Nothing can stop you from pulling together a collection of gyutos from different makers and rating them. But I do not see the makers beating the door down to be in a contest. And the 'winner' will be based on a series of subjective criteria. It's one thing to see what knife is sharpest (and even that is not easy), but quite another to rate an edge profile, etc. Because at the end of the day, a lot of it is personal preference.

Good luck getting a knife magazine interested. If you actually wrote the article, pulled together the graphics, etc. it's possible they would entertain publishing it, but I would not hold my breath.

My decisions to commission knives from custom makers are based on: 1. Reviews/ feedback from others that have knives from those makers, 2. Personal experience with knives made by those makers, 3. Conversations I have had with the makers, 4. Price, and 5. Wait time.

When a maker like Pierre Rodrigue will make a blade to whatever you specs are (profile, distal taper, thickness), how can you compare one of his knives against, say, a gyuto from Delbert? The two knives may have been made to different specifications, and as a result the cutting performance, edge longevity, handle size, balance, etc. can be worlds apart. But that is the beauty of a full custom -- it is a knife made to meet what the customer requests.

Maybe a better contest would be to define a set of criteria for the blade and handle, and see which maker comes closest to meeting all of the requested criteria. To me, this would be the best way to judge the skill of a custom maker. Of course you would need to pay the makers to make the knives...