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maxim
07-26-2011, 08:57 AM
I thought i share some of my thoughts about fingerstones.

I got some very nice Ohira Uchigomori sword polishing quality !

Finger stones is bit difficult to choose because they are used for final finish on your knife or sword so they have to be of very best quality to not to destroy your finish after all that hard polishing !!

Here is 2 examples of bad and good Uchigomori

At the looks you cant see much differens but after use the bad one is very soft and fragile it will ruin your finish.

Uchigomori is a layer in Tenjyou strata so it is not name of the stone but just a layer, this layer is very good for fingerstones because it is soft and dose not have to much cutting power to ruin the finish so it is safest stone to use for fingerstones ! But very difficult to get a good one


First stone on top is very fine and sword polishing grade Uchigomori, one below is very bad uchigomori !

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-drN2f7dfU7A/Ti6fc_STkgI/AAAAAAAALnM/9XmHoWwA9QU/s1600/IMGP7021.JPG

Bad one
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t59N75FlEd0/Ti6fbbd_v9I/AAAAAAAALnI/kDKqyALPqb0/s1600/IMGP7022.JPG

Good one
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WDw3vP7avrg/Ti6fakMUfSI/AAAAAAAALnE/K_PkERN0gX4/s1600/IMGP7023.JPG

Nakayma Fingerstones the best fingerstones i have tried so fare milky mirro finish and very smooth polish
This one is more for advance users very hard to make slurry but very stable and fast cutting stone it is not Uchigomori but harder Maruka Nakayama.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v9f_br8o8Po/Ti6fXc4G7eI/AAAAAAAALm4/V_0TfBw1yRk/s1600/IMGP7026.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-siUNM6yVJ1Q/Ti6fZrmyJqI/AAAAAAAALnA/Q_DWKHzN3lI/s1600/IMGP7024.JPG

Ozuku super hard VERY difficult to use will scratch soft steel if not used correct but will leve super mirro polish, i use it very rare because its very easy to ruin your finish.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pLpqC1CIF2Y/Ti6fYdgVlTI/AAAAAAAALm8/YcZdB4n2ysk/s1600/IMGP7025.JPG

Ready to use fingerstones

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KR6XYpNVtJU/Ti6fVO-sJpI/AAAAAAAALmw/bpkKiILkaKA/s1600/IMGP7028.JPG

Will continue :)

Lefty
07-26-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm looking forward to this, Maksim. Finger stones are intriguing to me, because I have next to no knowledge when it comes to them. I have a feeling we might all learn a far bit from this thread :)

steeley
07-26-2011, 07:45 PM
Very nice looking forward to more from this thread.:nicethread:

Adagimp
07-27-2011, 01:12 AM
Oh fingerstones. So frustrating in the inconsistency from one stone to the next, but so useful for finishing when you finally get a couple good ones.

I've got oodles of the buggers and it seems like each finishes a little differently.

Dave Martell
07-27-2011, 01:20 AM
These little things can drive you crazy.....and also make you smile.

DrNaka
07-27-2011, 01:24 AM
These little things can drive you crazy.....and also make you smile.

And if you slip bleed your finger...

Dave Martell
07-27-2011, 01:47 AM
And if you slip bleed your finger...


Oh don't I know that!?!?!?! :D

maxim
07-28-2011, 06:14 PM
Preparation:

It is very very importent to make good preparation befor using fingerstones !!
Take good time to prepare because it is last polish you dont want to ruin anything.
I use chisel to make my fingerstones from a big rock, then i flatten them on both sides with Atoma 140, then i flatten useable side with 600 grit and up to final natural i used.
You have to round all the conners and make sure that nothing sit lose on that small stones .

Now for polishing aria, it have to be very very clean in that room where you polish, so no dost or lose particles dont scratch your finish ! Make sure you have a lot of clean tissue papers reedy.

Ok here is Shigefusa Kasumi Mukimono 180mm with Patina
It will be my test knife:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2rUR1gbCn9M/TjE3KBOvkWI/AAAAAAAALq4/QRDWGrsL-hE/s720/IMGP7077.JPG

Firs Ohira Uchigomori fingerstones:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PrpLqzNld40/TjE3JIbV3cI/AAAAAAAALq0/_QN9f_9B3Iw/s720/IMGP7078.JPG

It is medium hardnes for finerstones, my Shigefusa was very good polished befor i got patina so i dont have to start up with very soft fingerstone like Hakka or soft Ohira.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Kbwm7hdApSI/TjE3IGqgnqI/AAAAAAAALqw/1lxUnI2fBZg/s720/IMGP7079.JPG

I am polishing only in one direction to get nice even scratche,
Before i was thinking to much about removing all scratches and it resulted that i got many scratches in all directions that is much easier to se then even and nice scratches in one direction ( i think that is Shigefusas sicret :) )

So here is the final result of Uchigomori i polished only one part of the blade to compare to Maruka fingerstones. It was only 2 min polish

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GfOX66KvxS4/TjE3HHW5D-I/AAAAAAAALqs/j4tnyxYkMb4/s720/IMGP7080.JPG

Now you can clearly see that old jigane with many impurities Shigefusa use, they call it "clouds"

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jW8Ovuow5_M/TjE3GTVeEyI/AAAAAAAALqo/FotQhgl6FSY/s720/IMGP7082.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mxkaEYc8O-g/TjE3FcyDVrI/AAAAAAAALqk/Fq9Sv2XCsB4/s720/IMGP7085.JPG

Now for Maruka Nakayama fingerstones:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EG2cmr6U51U/TjE3EhvZmxI/AAAAAAAALqg/fbolkbzbRzQ/s720/IMGP7087.JPG

They are much harder and do not relise any slurry, swarf only !

If someone wonder, it is my girlfriends nail polish on back of the stone to stabelise it more.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SCneqc1658s/TjE3DmRnZsI/AAAAAAAALqc/J_gHSSx5Poo/s720/IMGP7088.JPG

Here is with 3 min work harder stones need more time and you have to ad very little water, make sure that your mud do not dry out it can scratch the finish !!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RDGkP4UUdhk/TjE3C9TXF2I/AAAAAAAALqY/-x8swh0y1nE/s720/IMGP7090.JPG

Final result:

You can see that Nakayama maruka is much more brighter and more mirro, but stil haze and very good contrast between the steels.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-E9Wt5SmkSIY/TjE3Bqj4jRI/AAAAAAAALqQ/YLWafJ-DF7M/s720/IMGP7093.JPG

Both finishes looks very good and its really depend on the knife and on the personal preference what finish you will choose for your knife. You can also use both one on uchigomori on soft steel and maruka on hard, that what sward polishers do.

But i am to laze and i take all Marukas on that one 3 min total :)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hMrbmTkcg_Q/TjE3AR_66aI/AAAAAAAALqM/Yzx35341n0w/s720/IMGP7100.JPG

You can even out your finish by adding more mud or making more mud on your finishing stone then transfer it on your knife.
But still make sure all is very very clean and there are no big particles around that can mess all things up, THATS WHAT MAKE PEOPLE CRAZY :razz:

maxim
07-28-2011, 06:15 PM
But luckily i have made my own mud to even out the finish and i will experiment with it here :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uN37490S0SQ/TjE2-aN8uvI/AAAAAAAALqE/GNsDAQVrU8M/s720/IMGP7108.JPG

I use wadding for last polish ( i never done it before so its a first time )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hVOZeA2Rqf4/TjE29o3DvhI/AAAAAAAALqA/a_ysIRla_t8/s720/IMGP7109.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MqzVGuzTYrE/TjE28rPfEKI/AAAAAAAALp8/9C92SGt5qo0/s720/IMGP7110.JPG

You can see that its removes some steel it get darker and darker.
I make some long strokes at last like i will do with fingerstones too without any pressure.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d9ldF0RIPsw/TjE276cVRCI/AAAAAAAALp4/X0Xc-4G4cns/s720/IMGP7112.JPG

Here is result :jumpy:

You can see it is haze but mirro too in reflection, that what i like with those natural buggers

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gINee1tlKR0/TjE252H4m1I/AAAAAAAALps/LY2N5DrLptI/s720/IMGP7115.JPG

Closeup

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u-UMYB5ImqQ/TjE246Z1H9I/AAAAAAAALpo/sSN9x1Nb5Nc/s720/IMGP7117.JPG

I toke pictures in all different angles so you have idea of finish

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rbhsSVoiIhY/TjE9pkM4_WI/AAAAAAAALrU/uc-PdzAT86Q/s720/IMGP7120.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2Qn2od1luBU/TjE9ozjFyqI/AAAAAAAALrQ/FIl3FpwCDqc/s720/IMGP7125.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jhboMs-EGHY/TjE9oFAfrPI/AAAAAAAALrM/CYBZDOMls5g/s720/IMGP7129.JPG

Thats it for now :ninja:

UglyJoe
07-29-2011, 12:27 PM
That Shigi jigane is beautiful. Just beautiful. Great work, Maksim.

DrNaka
07-29-2011, 03:17 PM
Maxim san

Wonderful finish.

Though Iizuka san official says that it is by chance that you get "clouds" on his Kasumi knives I think lot is on your craft and the wonderful JNS you have.
I see it is not only luck that you have "clouds" on all your Shigefusa Kasumi knives.

maxim
07-29-2011, 06:52 PM
That Shigi jigane is beautiful. Just beautiful. Great work, Maksim.

Thats why i have so many of them :drool:

Thanks !!

It will continue....

rulesnut
07-30-2011, 08:37 AM
If someone wonder, it is my girlfriends nail polish on back of the stone to stabelise it more.

Have you tried a more dedicated nail hardener on your fingerstones?

I have had good results with this stuff: Nail Tek II: Intensive Therapy (http://www.nailtek.com/nail_tek/nkII.html)

You can buy it pretty cheaply on Amazon or Ebay.

mainaman
07-30-2011, 08:52 AM
Have you tried a more dedicated nail hardener on your fingerstones?

I have had good results with this stuff: Nail Tek II: Intensive Therapy (http://www.nailtek.com/nail_tek/nkII.html)

You can buy it pretty cheaply on Amazon or Ebay.did you find any advantage over nail polish?

rulesnut
07-30-2011, 09:08 AM
This stuff is really, really, really hard and multiple layers meld together.

SpikeC
07-30-2011, 02:53 PM
Sounds like shellack!

rulesnut
07-30-2011, 04:46 PM
No. This is Shellacque.:tooth:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63i0ncXiaXE

SpikeC
07-30-2011, 06:15 PM
Typical Canuck!

rulesnut
07-30-2011, 07:58 PM
Blahahaha

jmforge
08-01-2011, 05:44 AM
The Japanese sword polishers chisel off thin slices of these stones and attach them to a paper backing using a lacquer and resin mixture, let them dry for a week (traditional mixture) or 1-2 days (modern synthetic resin mixture) and then cut them up into little squares and dress them on another stone. They don't polish with "raw" stone. The hardest stones are used on softer blades and the softer stones on the harder blades. hadr and softer are a relative term when talking about nihnto because on a sword, unlike on a kitchen knife, the only softer low carbon steel exosed is along the spine. .You are also not going to get the full effect unless you go two steps further using a mixture of very fine magnetite powder, clove oil and one other ingredient that I can't recall as opposed to "mud" That what fully develops the hamon features. Some guys that I know rottenstone and other very fine abrasive powders (1500-2000 grit aluminum oxide, I think) to get a similar effect. There is a very good book called "The Art Of Japanese Sword Polishing" that gives a very good introdution to this particular form of tradtional japanese insanity. I bought it and it inpired me.............to try and learn how to do a more simple modern "hybrid" form of polishing that doesn't require purchasing stones that can cost thousands of dollars for the best examples and hundreds for more pedestrian sets..:scared4::lol2:

maxim
08-01-2011, 06:12 AM
I did try to glue paper to the fingerstones but it did not work for me that well :(
But maybe i used wrong paper.

I think powder works very very good, but you can also use mud from your fingerstones as powder
When the knife is covered with mud from your fingerstones wile you polishing your knife use cotton cloth with a lot of pressure to even out the finish.

jmforge
08-01-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm sure that you have to use the special Japanese paper that cost 10 times as much. Having bought some of those real stones, you know how that goes, right?:lol2: John White is the guy who told me about rottenstone. Nick Wheeler is the one who wa using the other abrasive powder. I will ask him what it was.
I did try to glue paper to the fingerstones but it did not work for me that well :(
But maybe i used wrong paper.

I think powder works very very good, but you can also use mud from your fingerstones as powder
When the knife is covered with mud from your fingerstones wile you polishing your knife use cotton cloth with a lot of pressure to even out the finish.

mainaman
08-01-2011, 02:49 PM
I'm sure that you have to use the special Japanese paper that cost 10 times as much. Having bought some of those real stones, you know how that goes, right?:lol2: John White is the guy who told me about rottenstone. Nick Wheeler is the one who wa using the other abrasive powder. I will ask him what it was.

washi paper is pretty cheap

Chef Niloc
08-06-2011, 01:36 AM
washi paper is pretty cheap

If you used washi paper then you got the right stuff. Did you use cashew lacquer? cashew lacquer needs water to cure right so the stones should be wet

Chef Niloc
08-06-2011, 01:40 AM
O and marine epoxy works great to, no need for paper with that stuff

mainaman
08-06-2011, 01:52 AM
If you used washi paper then you got the right stuff. Did you use cashew lacquer? cashew lacquer needs water to cure right so the stones should be wet

cashew lacquer does not need water to cure , may be you mean Urushi?

Chef Niloc
08-06-2011, 03:42 PM
cashew lacquer does not need water to cure , may be you mean Urushi?

May be?? If so that's the stuff to use

mainaman
08-06-2011, 03:51 PM
May be?? If so that's the stuff to use

Unfortunately Urushi is similar to poison Ivy and causes severe allergic reactions. Cashew is much easier to handle and dries a lot faster with same effect as Urushi.
I have tried both and Cashew is the lacquer of choice for me.