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View Full Version : Need help with a finishing stone??



jgraeff
07-27-2011, 10:41 AM
so i use a 1000 mino sharp and a 6000 king for my normal stones.

i was looking for a finishing stone to add to it and i have been wanting to try a natural stone because i like the finish that they leave.

the couple im looking into are Takashima Awasedo, Ohira Tomae, and i have spoke with maxim which he has Ozuku nr 35 or 36 he recommended but are out of my price range. He said he will be getting some Yaginoshimas in next week and that they are a bit harder but will be ok for kitchen knives.

have any of you used these stones and have any preference or do you recommend anything else? Want to stay under 200$.

Dave Martell
07-27-2011, 10:48 AM
What knives are you sharpening?

goodchef1
07-27-2011, 10:54 AM
beautiful question. I think many need to look more at steel, hrc, geometry, finish, etc. not the one style, edge, stone fits all category. A whole new world opens up between the relationship of blade and stone.

jgraeff
07-27-2011, 11:02 AM
well pretty much all my knives, misono suji 240, misono santoku 7, tojiro dp honesuki 150mm i will probably only take to the 6k, but the kono hd gyuto 240 and gesshin ginga 210 petty id like to get a nice finish and refine the edge just a bit more. i may even use the finishing stone for more frequent touch ups so that i dont have to take it all the way down as much on just about all of them.

most of them are stainless, except the kono hd is semi stainless. which im sure you all know more about the steel involved than i do.

might i mention id like to use it on my straight razors as well but thats just an option it will be purchased for use on the knives so that is my main focus.

Adagimp
07-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Your preference for using the stone for both knives and straights might be satisfied by the purchase of a good natural stone.

Although, naturals are generally more expensive than synthetics and their quality varies between nearly every stone.

Budget allowing, a naturally stone would probably be what I went after, if I was looking to sharpen knives and straights on the same stone.

If you're just looking to sharpen knives a natural would still be a good option, but a synthetic will probably save you some money.

The naniwa super 8k or 10k have gotten good reviews as finishing stones, though I've only used the 8k and found it a bit soft.

Dave Martell
07-27-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm being very general here but with the way I think if you're looking at naturals you'll probably want something on the medium to hard side. I say this because you're looking to use the stone for both straights and double bevel knives and this is do-able if you find the right one although the price point is going to be a ***** unless you go for smaller razor sized stones (coppa). If you were also doing double bevel knives then this would all be blown out of the water.

tk59
07-27-2011, 01:19 PM
My favorite finishing stone for kitchen knives is an 8kSS. It is relatively fast and works well on all steels. After that, it would be a Belgian coticule. I also have an Awasedo. At this point, I really like it for carbon steel but not so much in general for stainless. It works but it's slow compared to the SS. The Kitayama 8k is quite serviceable and I use that from time to time although I find that carbon/iron claddin rusts fairly quickly on this stone. I use a 12k SS for razors. It works fine with knives, too.

jgraeff
07-27-2011, 01:30 PM
if i do go synthetic i was thinking either the 8kSS or the 16k shapton glass because for the price thats pretty decent but i haven't really seen any review and im not sure if that would be too fine for a kitchen knife.

although i would really like to try a natural stone, but dave makes a good point about the size and price. I believe either one that jon or mark carries would be fine for knives to finish with right? or would i be better of going with the synthetic?

JBroida
07-27-2011, 01:36 PM
the takashima wouldnt be the best for razors.... its a little too soft and muddy. Its much more of a knife stone.

tk59
07-27-2011, 01:41 PM
I think synthetics are much better multipurpose stones. Naturals are tricky. Plus, they are slow. I'm not very experienced with them but if you're gonna go for a japanese natural, I think it's best to get them with a single purpose in mind. A belgian coticule, however is a nice all purpose stone.

jgraeff
07-27-2011, 01:53 PM
Jon thanks for the input! so that one would be out because i would like to use in on my straights as well.

I have been wanting to try a natural because of the nice finish it leaves but the cost is just too high, i will wait to see what maxim gets in next week just to see.

What are some synthetics that work well, i know some say the shapton glass stones are too hard is this true? I have heard good things about the SS stones.

also what would be the best grit option i was thinking 8-12k somewhere between there.

JBroida
07-27-2011, 01:57 PM
maxim would be the guy i would talk to in your situation

on GS, i personally find them too hard for my taste (when using with kitchen knives)... they arent bad stones...i just dont like them.

The SS could work well for both knives and razors... i've heard a lot of razor guys use them. Sadly, as i'm not a razor guy, i know very little about that. Consider this though... the 10-12k range in synthetics will likely leave you with very little bite to your edge on kitchen knives. That may not be in your best interest.

99Limited
07-27-2011, 02:05 PM
Maybe you should talk to Jon about one of his Gesshin 15k stones. Another option in the 8k range is the Naniwa 8k Snow White.

jgraeff
07-27-2011, 02:09 PM
maxim would be the guy i would talk to in your situation

on GS, i personally find them too hard for my taste (when using with kitchen knives)... they arent bad stones...i just dont like them.

The SS could work well for both knives and razors... i've heard a lot of razor guys use them. Sadly, as i'm not a razor guy, i know very little about that. Consider this though... the 10-12k range in synthetics will likely leave you with very little bite to your edge on kitchen knives. That may not be in your best interest.

ya thats what i was worried about if i go to high then it could refine my edge too much for kitchen use, what would you recommend as the highest grit for use in a pro kitchen? I mean my 6k works fairly well i have no complaints just considering other options as well.

as far as hard stones i dont think i would like them either, the mino sharp i have is really hard and i really dislike that stone and have considered replacing it. The main focus for my finishing stone is my knives so i will forget the razor and maybe get another stone just for that i know maxim has some small ones for razors for sale.

SpikeC
07-27-2011, 02:46 PM
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on the Chinese natural stones that Woodcraft sells? They say that they are 8-12K.

JBroida
07-27-2011, 02:53 PM
ya thats what i was worried about if i go to high then it could refine my edge too much for kitchen use, what would you recommend as the highest grit for use in a pro kitchen? I mean my 6k works fairly well i have no complaints just considering other options as well.

as far as hard stones i dont think i would like them either, the mino sharp i have is really hard and i really dislike that stone and have considered replacing it. The main focus for my finishing stone is my knives so i will forget the razor and maybe get another stone just for that i know maxim has some small ones for razors for sale.

I generally stop around the 4-8k range depending on the knife and its intended use (when using synthetic stones)... there are some exceptions to this and even some high grit stones that dont leave too smooth of an edge, but this is a good general rule.
For naturals, it just depends on the stone and what kind of edge feel it leaves.

JBroida
07-27-2011, 02:54 PM
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on the Chinese natural stones that Woodcraft sells? They say that they are 8-12K.

hard and slow

DrNaka
07-27-2011, 08:26 PM
There are ways to get Jnats for a limited budget.

1. If you want the nice finish on the blade get fingerstones.
2. If you want to a stone for razor and knife get a hard and fine Jnat. It is OK if it is slow. Use this stone for micro bevel (Itoba) only on knives and to deburr on the back side. For micro bevel you can use slow stones.

SpikeC
07-27-2011, 09:32 PM
hard and slow

Sounds like a good razor hone.

JBroida
07-27-2011, 09:50 PM
Sounds like a good razor hone.

I think a lot of razor guys use it

goodchef1
07-27-2011, 09:54 PM
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on the Chinese natural stones that Woodcraft sells? They say that they are 8-12K.

got em about a two months ago, as Jon says "hard and slow" I use it as a paper weight now for my newspapers

jgraeff
07-27-2011, 10:33 PM
There are ways to get Jnats for a limited budget.

1. If you want the nice finish on the blade get fingerstones.
2. If you want to a stone for razor and knife get a hard and fine Jnat. It is OK if it is slow. Use this stone for micro bevel (Itoba) only on knives and to deburr on the back side. For micro bevel you can use slow stones.

Im not sure i have the skill involved to use a finger stone on a gyuto :) im still working on getting even grinds on regular stones. But ya i dont mind if its a little slow im just using it for polishing, refining and adding micro bevels.

Joh- the new videos are great, being able to see them and the finish they leave before buying them makes it so much better! Im not sure if you have used a 8kSS but how would you compare it to the Awasedo?
i think i will probably go with either of those they both seem like great stones.

jgraeff
07-28-2011, 01:04 PM
Im starting to think i should just get a 3-4k stone instead of a higher grit finishing stone i mean it would be nice to get a good polish on the knives but i get a good bite that works well right now. I could save money and get a stone solely for razors then. Do you think 3-4k is worth it or is that not needed?

What do you guys think?

JBroida
07-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Im not sure i have the skill involved to use a finger stone on a gyuto :) im still working on getting even grinds on regular stones. But ya i dont mind if its a little slow im just using it for polishing, refining and adding micro bevels.

Joh- the new videos are great, being able to see them and the finish they leave before buying them makes it so much better! Im not sure if you have used a 8kSS but how would you compare it to the Awasedo?
i think i will probably go with either of those they both seem like great stones.

i'll shoot you a pm

monty
07-28-2011, 01:38 PM
Im starting to think i should just get a 3-4k stone instead of a higher grit finishing stone i mean it would be nice to get a good polish on the knives but i get a good bite that works well right now. I could save money and get a stone solely for razors then. Do you think 3-4k is worth it or is that not needed?

What do you guys think?

I have been re-reading your posts and I want to throw out a suggestion. First, I have noticed that you are happy with your current set up. A 1000x and 6000x, right? It gives you the edges you need for your kitchen and you really don't have any complaints with they system you currently use. Second, there's no doubt that with a 1000x and a 6000x you probably have all the stones you NEED. So, here's my suggestion. Just admit that you want another stone because it's fun to try new stones out! :) Treat yourself, if you can afford it, and don't over think things too much. I have a whole table of stones I don't need, but I'm glad I bought 'em. Have fun and contribute some of your hard earned cash to the economy!!

I hope you take this in the spirit in which it was offered. :)

jgraeff
07-28-2011, 01:44 PM
I have been re-reading your posts and I want to throw out a suggestion. First, I have noticed that you are happy with your current set up. A 1000x and 6000x, right? It gives you the edges you need for your kitchen and you really don't have any complaints with they system you currently use. Second, there's no doubt that with a 1000x and a 6000x you probably have all the stones you NEED. So, here's my suggestion. Just admit that you want another stone because it's fun to try new stones out! :) Treat yourself, if you can afford it, and don't over think things too much. I have a whole table of stones I don't need, but I'm glad I bought 'em. Have fun and contribute some of your hard earned cash to the economy!!

I hope you take this in the spirit in which it was offered. :)

haha yes you are correct i would "like" another stone but i dont "need" one :)

i just dont want to waste my money on something that wouldn't benefit me at all. Im trying to decide what would benefit me more for pro kitchen use between a 4k and 8k stone. I like that n 8k leaves a great finish but then again i may not like the fineness of the edge and if i got a 4k i could use that more with the 6k with touch ups which i think i would like better rather than always having to take them down to the 1k.

so many choices with limited money so its difficult haha but im sure i will treat myself to at least one stone when i place the order for the deba. And dont worry i enjoyed your post pretty much spot on!

monty
07-28-2011, 03:28 PM
Yeah, and I hope I didn't come across as preachy. My sense is that no matter what stone you buy it will serve a proper function and will be worth the money you spend. Considering the stones you are looking at, you aren't going to get the wrong one no matter which one you buy.

mainaman
07-28-2011, 05:59 PM
Sounds like a good razor hone.

they vary in quality unless you find a really good one it is not worth it IMHO.

mainaman
07-28-2011, 06:03 PM
so i use a 1000 mino sharp and a 6000 king for my normal stones.

i was looking for a finishing stone to add to it and i have been wanting to try a natural stone because i like the finish that they leave.

the couple im looking into are Takashima Awasedo, Ohira Tomae, and i have spoke with maxim which he has Ozuku nr 35 or 36 he recommended but are out of my price range. He said he will be getting some Yaginoshimas in next week and that they are a bit harder but will be ok for kitchen knives.

have any of you used these stones and have any preference or do you recommend anything else? Want to stay under 200$.

the mine the stone comes from does not matter as long as it does work for your purposes.
Just make sure to ask if a particular stone works with knives similar to what you have.