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View Full Version : 60 year old cleave 1 - ptolemy 0



ptolemy
08-06-2011, 01:11 AM
This is my grandmother's cleaver. I think she got it in 1952, when she got married and never sharpened it since.

Last few years when she used it, she just used it to cut up very soft things to mix. It is actually duller than anything else.

I have tried attackingwith 240 grit to no avail. Today I spent good 30 min with 140grit stone, made a nice slurry, and nothing!

Is there a chance to do this without actually getting a powertool involved?

Here is how it looks (I have no idea what steel it is either)

Thanks for advice :)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p63/ptolemy2k6/knife/IMG_1934.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p63/ptolemy2k6/knife/IMG_1935.jpg

jm2hill
08-06-2011, 01:17 AM
I had one of my dads prestige schimitar butcher knives. Hasn't been sharpened in 30 years. 5 and a half hours on a 120 grit stone. It took forever. Maybe 9 hours of sharpening. Then maybe an hour and a half on a 320 then just the regular progression up to two thousand.

It took forever and luckily it was on a dull rainy weekend but this thing is sharp now!

Short of getting a 120 belt grinder I'm not sure what else you could do. DMT XXC?

ptolemy
08-06-2011, 01:22 AM
I had one of my dads prestige schimitar butcher knives. Hasn't been sharpened in 30 years. 5 and a half hours on a 120 grit stone. It took forever. Maybe 9 hours of sharpening. Then maybe an hour and a half on a 320 then just the regular progression up to two thousand.

It took forever and luckily it was on a dull rainy weekend but this thing is sharp now!

Short of getting a 120 belt grinder I'm not sure what else you could do. DMT XXC?

hell, i was thinking maybe using a dremel to take some off and then try 120 again....i spend good hour and didnt even see any reaction besides removal of patina

Lefty
08-06-2011, 01:24 AM
A dremel will just create a hollow grind, and even more issues.
I'd go belt grinder, if I were you.

jm2hill
08-06-2011, 01:30 AM
hell, i was thinking maybe using a dremel to take some off and then try 120 again....i spend good hour and didnt even see any reaction besides removal of patina

Dremel may not be a bad idea but you would have to be very very very careful to keep it only on the edge. With a very light touch. I'd be nervous to put a hole right through! Otherwise your looking at thinning steel above the edge as well then reprofiling the cleaver. Which if your comfortable with is definitely do able.

otherwise belt grinder or lots of time on the stone seem the best idea

Chef Niloc
08-06-2011, 01:31 AM
Dave could do it in 5 min

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/893f9008.png

Eamon Burke
08-06-2011, 01:37 AM
:plus1:

indeed

ptolemy
08-06-2011, 01:46 AM
Dave could do it in 5 min

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/893f9008.png


:plus1:

indeed
Oh ya, Dave will get it done :)

This is an old cleaver so was kinda a project for me to try to revive, so sending it to Dave would defeat the purpose. I also don't have a belt grinder.

Hmmmm, I have to think about it :)

aaronsgibson
08-06-2011, 07:53 AM
I feel you there. A lady at work had a SS cleaver and it was DULL. I told her that I sharpen knives and such and for people who want to use me that I always to the first knife free, if you like it then the next one well work out a payment. But anyway, It took me an hour using a 300 or 400 stone (can't remember its a Norton cheep stone) the damn thing seemed to have never been thinned, it had been sharpened before by the guy who does our knives at the restaurant (please don't get me started) and as I said, it was fully dull to the point where she didn't really use it because of it. So after the hour long session, I finally had enough material off of it (I also took away a lot of old metal that was fatigued) then I was able to move up to my King 1.2 green brick and sanyo 6k. The last three was only about maybe 10 minutes per stone (had to make a good impression :) When all was said and done it could push cut paper no problem and I really didn't want to see that damn thing again. Took it back and she was very happy, it was then that she told me that it hadn't been properly sharpened in about 8 years. She then told me that she had a carbon clever that needed it to. Am I just a glutton for punishment? Oh how I feel your pain. But for that I'm thinking XXC or belt grinder (if you can borrow one from a friend)

maxim
08-06-2011, 08:10 AM
Ohh... Russian cleaver never seen one before :)

ecchef
08-06-2011, 08:38 AM
Ryan's probably got three of them in a shoebox somewhere. :laugh:

stevenStefano
08-06-2011, 08:55 AM
In work we have something that looks basically the same as that, but it is English. We ust it exclusively for chopping lamb racks and anything else that requires cutting through bones. I would never try and sharpen it, but it is used for bones anyway so it doesn't need to be super sharp

Ordo
08-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Three possible solutions to even the edge, which is the first you must do:

1. Use a drill and a rough wheel, cooling frequently in cold water to preserve the temper. You need some tool experience to do this.
2. Run the edge over rough wet-dry sand paper. You can use a piece of wood to hold the sandpaper and run it over the edge until you get a nice curve.
3. Run a file through the edge. Idem.

The you can begin to sharpen as you like. Convex 50/50 may be the best choice here.

Lefty
08-06-2011, 09:13 AM
True. Meat cleavers are a lot nicer to use with a rounder edge. You definitely don't want/need it shaving sharp.

Marko Tsourkan
08-06-2011, 10:52 AM
Can you have a close-up of the logo on that cleaver? It looks like it's in Cyrillic and one of the words is ОКТЯБРь and the other a fragment what I think is ОДЕССА. This might be a much older cleaver than you think.

M

Dave Martell
08-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Meat cleavers should have a convex edge if at all possible. Taking out damage or re=setting bevels on thick cleavers by hand is a really tough job that I'll never do again. The hardest are the really old cast steel cleavers like Beattys.

I'd love to hear more about the mark and the history of where this might have come from and who made it.

ptolemy
08-06-2011, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone. Just thinking back, brings a lot of good memories. The reason I am fairly confident about the age is because she got a set of pots/pans at her wedding too (cast iron, which she used for 50+ years too). The mark on the cleaver and it is indeed says October in Cyrillic, which I think is likely the brand name, and Odessa, is where it was made. My Grandmother lived all her life there and as a child I spent a lot of time there as well.
Now, whether the cleaver was given new or old, I have no idea but I know she used it for 2 dishes. One was to chop through the rib bones and then slowly stew them (my grandmother was a huge fan) and then make an eggplant dish, which my mother still loves.

Here is the close up picture of the log and if someone wants to just have a first hand look at it or try to play with fixing it I can mail it over. After thinking last night I came to likely obviously conclusion that I will never get it fixed by hand.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p63/ptolemy2k6/knife/IMG_19341.jpg

Dave Martell
08-06-2011, 03:02 PM
Are there many Russian knife brands made in Russia? This is something I know nothing about.

ptolemy
08-06-2011, 03:30 PM
Are there many Russian knife brands made in Russia? This is something I know nothing about.

That's a good question. This is old brand in the USSR era, so who knows if there is anything left of it. But, as far as knife brands, I am sure there are many. Better question is, how is the quality and whether it's even forged. Also, what steels they use and such.

Chef Niloc
08-06-2011, 03:32 PM
True. Meat cleavers are a lot nicer to use with a rounder edge. You definitely don't want/need it shaving sharp.
But it's so much more fun when they are


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/826837ea.jpg

SpikeC
08-06-2011, 07:24 PM
Ah, just give it a micro bevel!

sudsy9977
08-06-2011, 08:15 PM
my two cents....u will never be able to do it by hand...could u ?...sure i guess....you'd go throug h a hell of alot of sandpaper or stones though....and it'd take u forever.....i would send it to dave for a professional sharpening.....if it really does mean alot to you i woulkd send it there....there might be a dip or hole in the edge that needs addresing or something like that......ryan


p.s.-i keep my cleavers in the closet in a big huge tupperware....not a shoebox....ryan

Dave Martell
08-06-2011, 09:38 PM
p.s.-i keep my cleavers in the closet in a big huge tupperware....not a shoebox....ryan


Yeah but you could....your shoeboxes are big enough! :p

Dave Martell
08-06-2011, 09:41 PM
Ah, just give it a micro bevel!

:happy2: :happy2: :happy2: :happy2:

ptolemy
08-06-2011, 09:58 PM
You guys are killing me!

Chef Niloc
08-07-2011, 12:44 AM
Yeah but you could....your shoeboxes are big enough! :p


Ahggggg RYAN get MAD!!!!!




http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/95ba235a.png
:angel2:











RYAN KILL DAVE Agggggkkggh


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/cfc81417.png

Vertigo
08-07-2011, 12:49 AM
*rofl*

Glad I'm not the only person who thinks it's hysterical to clumsily ape attacking friends and coworkers with dangerous tools!

"Sorry Chef! It won't happen again!"