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WillC
08-07-2011, 09:51 AM
This is the little Petty and Nakiri I posted before, with some nicer handles I made. The previous ones were bought in and a bit small and light. I also updated the geometry a bit. Making a secondary bevel and micro bevel seems to do the job for ripe tomatoes.

Petty
Specifications
Materials – 15n20 and plain carbon, (ave. 0.8%C) this is a high layer W’s pattern forged out so the W’s stretch out and unravel. I call it unravelled W’s.
Blade length – 156mm
Blade width – 31mm
Blade Thickness – 1.8mm tapering to 1.2mm to 2/3rds of the spine, before tip taper.
Handle length – 118mm
Handle Materials – Maple Burl.
Balance point – Finger on Choil.
Grind – Full flat with approximately 7 degree per side secondary. Micro-bevel set at 11 degrees per side.
Finish - Hand rubbed to 1200gt.


http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1006.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1005.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1011.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1008.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1007.jpg


Full Damascus Nakiri.
Specifications
Materials - 15n20 and plain carbon, (ave. 0.8%C) This is a high layer W’s pattern forged out so the W’s stretch out and unravel. I call it unravelled W’s.
Blade Length – 115mm
Blade Width - 49mm
Blade thickness – 1mm
Handle Length – 115mm
Handle Materials – Maple Burl
Balance point – 10mm in front of Choil
Grind – Sabre grind to halfway up blade, blended. Approximately 7 degree per side secondary. Micro-bevel set at 11 degrees per side.
Finish - Hand rubbed to 1200gt.


http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1029.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1027.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1025.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1030.jpg
Lastly a cute little Damascus Utility, I did this to get a look at a 4 bar W's pattern billet I made. Not quite what I expected to see, the w's are a bit small, but I like it:laugh:



Small Damascus Utility.
Materials - 15n20 and plain carbon, (ave. 0.8%C). The pattern is a high layer W’s pattern twisted and stacked to make a 4 bar pattern.
Blade Length – 84mm
Blade Width – 42mm
Blade thickness – 1.5mm at back tapering all the way from there.
Handle Length – 92mm
Handle Materials – Amboyna Burl
Balance point – Finger on choil.
Grind – Full flat with approximately 7 degree per side secondary. Micro-bevel set at 11 degrees per side.
Finish - Hand rubbed to 1200gt.



http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1034.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1033.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1018.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1017.jpg
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1014.jpg


Lastly a group shot.
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP1038.jpg


Next time I promise to show some WIP, maybe some pattern development if anyones interested. Taking an etch of the end of the bar every now and then helps me anyway. Not sure what patterns I'll do next yet. I'm enjoying playing with W's at the moment and am not quite seeing what I want to see at the moment, so I shall persist.
Of course all feedback and thoughts gratefully received.

jmforge
08-07-2011, 01:23 PM
Very nice, Will. I have been told (and actually experienced this once) that when you are doing the initial "crushes" to make W's, if you square the sides of the billet too much, you can end up undoing the W's.

WillC
08-07-2011, 01:28 PM
Cheers Joe. Not sure there lost, just too small, like nearly too small to see at all, If you look into the little rivers of movement. Thats my W's:laugh: I think I got carried away on stacking, for a 30 layer start. Thinking about it the billet was rounded for the twist. Then the stack to 4 for 4 bar made them super small. The larger swirls are just straight layers I added in the final W's stack before forging down and twisting. This is the end of the billet so there is not much twist going on in the top bars.

jmforge
08-07-2011, 01:33 PM
Unfortunately, the best way to expose W's seems to be twisting and cutting into the billets, laddering or accordion/tile cutting, all of which end up either wasting 40-60% of your billet or all of it if you mess up the welding of the tiles. But they sure look good when you are done. I have heard guys refer to that stetched out pattern like yours as "seaweed" pattern/ John Perry built an entire folder, blade, bolsters, frames, etc, out of a very bold, high contrast version of that type of pattern a couple of years ago. Bill Buxton made s pair of knives recently with something similar.
Cheers Joe. Not sure there lost, just too small, like nearly too small to see at all, If you look into the little rivers of movement. Thats my W's

WillC
08-07-2011, 01:42 PM
I know what you mean, and I guess this would be seaweed twisted with W's. As the seaweed would be on the sides, (or the top if you forged it out the wrong way). I learnt that on my feathered seaweed:D I really think you can get good W's using this method, but the start layers and compression had to be spot on. Just look at Toby's lovely feather patterns he has done without cutting the thing up. There is more movement and randomness to it than a tiled pattern but that to me makes the pattern.

goodchef1
08-07-2011, 01:52 PM
really nice work. I was looking at those layers, and got back to my previous lust for a fine layered steel that looks like grind marks/lines that go the entire length of the blade, that are ridiculously straight and even throughout the whole blade. I don't know if that is even possible.

WillC
08-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Thanks, yeah I think it would be if you did a high layer straight laminate and managed to keep it dead straight. Not an easy thing to do mind. The top 2 blades of mine look quite like a straight laminate. But its actually a w's pattern forged out with the w's going with the length of the blade rather than across the blade. So the layers are stood on end rather than running flat. Of course the w's get stretched out and you loose the W effect but I got left with some cool movement in a fine pattern. Quite smokey. These things are hard to explain but easy to show with a quick etch after each process.:)

jmforge
08-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Normally, I would think that the only way you could get a dead straight pattern like that would be if you had a BIG press that would take bites on an entire billet or if you did all of your forge welding on a rolling mill. Even then you would probably have to figure a way to keep everything nice and flat all the way though the forge welding process and stock remove from flat stock as opposed to forging to shape to get that kind of effect.

Eamon Burke
08-07-2011, 05:50 PM
These designs(especially the Nakiri) are not for me at all.

But you are a fantastic finisher! These things are cleaned up like jewelry, and it communicates complete precision. Like super-attractive women that are not my type.

Marko Tsourkan
08-07-2011, 05:54 PM
Cool, though I would have to agree with JohnDoughy on the design. I think a safer road would be to use a tried-and-true design as a starting point and modify to your liking but preserving all important pats like profile, grind, etc.

M

WillC
08-07-2011, 06:12 PM
Cheers Guys. I have a load of blacksmithing to catch up on before I can get much else done but in the mean time I think the next step is to make a couple of pretty rough single steel knives that I can use myself for a while to develop a feel for what works in practice. I like the wackier shaped knives, its just in my nature. But the next 2 will be a medium sized Gyuto and something about 150mm not sure yet, suggestions? Just for me to use and adapt and tweak. At the moment anything that seems sharp and finely ground seems good to me for my own humble use. So what in your opinion would be the 2 chiefs essential and classic design. I think I'm on the ball with a 220-240 Gyuto as one of them. Maybe 3 if I get time.
What about the designs specifically would put you off these as users?

Eamon Burke
08-07-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't think you should change them, as long as you are confident in them, and know customers will want them.

For me, they are very inoffensive, the edges are so extremely rounded off that it reminds me of how children's toys are made to be safe. The tip on the nakiri is not uncommon(though not usually as dramatic), but I HATE the rounded tip thing, I want a point, or it drives me NUTS. I have a cheap chinese cleaver with a belly-tip and it sucks to use.

The handles are one piece design, which is not bad at all, but I think knives really need something to visually separate the handle-to-blade transition, it's just an aesthetic thing. I don't mind it if they knives are being kept cheap, but in nicely finished knives like this, I like to see a little more.

Your maker's mark is confusing to look at. I'm not sure what it is. If I didn't see the mark next to a few others EXACTLY like it, I would think it was sloppy.

:2cents:

WillC
08-07-2011, 07:00 PM
Great stuff, These are things I can work on. The stamp is a bit of a sloppy home made one. I made it years ago to stamp a dragons eyes for a weather vein. Its two half round files shaped and welded together at the sides. There is a guy on BB who makes etching machines and its on the shopping list for next time I manage to crawl out of my overdraft:running:
The Nakiri was not too well planned and ended up a bit different to what was intended, but i'm sure it will work for someone on a domestic level. Its too light I think as well. Due to a slip on the grinder it ended up a bit thinner than I wanted and with the rounded end:D

Aphex
08-08-2011, 11:59 AM
It's great to see a smith from the UK getting into kitchen knives, it seems everyone else is only interested in making outdoor type knives.

While i prefer carbon monosteel with a nice patina to damascus, it's clear from your pics that you have a great eye for detail. Your handles look really well designed with a nice gentle taper, the burl you used is quite simply stunning. As said before though, the handle would look better with a different colour, maybe darker ferule. It would really take it to the next level.

As for the style of a future gyuto, i really dont think you can get much better than this Masamoto as a perfect starting point.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5576/masamotohonyaki.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/masamotohonyaki.jpg/)

I'll be keeping a very close eye on your work. If your experiments with kitchen knives become as good as what i think they will, i would love to have a home grown gyuto in my kitchen. In fact i wouldn't mind a matching sujihiki either.:D

WildBoar
08-08-2011, 12:29 PM
The petty looks great, and I really like the damascus and the handles; you do some nice work! I'm not sure there is much of a market for 'fun' kitchen knife profiles the way there may be for carry-knives. If they are not functional they mainly just represent a waste of the buyer's $. Study the geometry of the traditional profiles, and maybe just tweak them slightly to make them 'yours'. But anything more then that will likely result in knives that have little utility.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.

jmforge
08-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Hmmmm..........that petty looks suspiciously like a seax.:lol2:

WillC
08-08-2011, 01:38 PM
Joe are you accusing me of grinding down old seax's into kitchen knives:D Would take too long. Here's my seax with notorious feathered seaweed pattern. Still needing a handle. Makes a very messy job of carving the chicken:tooth:
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/Feathered%20Seaweed%20Seax/IMGP0625.jpg

Thanks guys for your encouragement. That Masamoto looks very nice. Certainly something along those lines is on the cards. I do love my damascus though, nothing else gives me the incentive to polish the thing:laugh: Maybe some hamon going on would do it for me too. I'm working up to 2 piece handles, though my woodwork is a way behind my metalwork skills and equipment. I think i'll try T.B London's slotted dowel method. I would like to do a damascus integral too. I have a monster drill press which will do nicely in place of a Milling machine.
I do think there all useful knives though, the Nakari may look quirky buts is very thin behind the edge. It also parts food well due to the blended sabre grind. The rounded tip was a bit of a daft Idea and it a pain sharpening it round the corner. I can see how a square sharp tip would be allot more useful.
Its all good experience and its good to be here learning from people who use knives as their tools everyday.:biggrin:

SpikeC
08-08-2011, 01:49 PM
The dammy on that ax is stunning!

WillC
08-08-2011, 02:14 PM
Thanks Spike. I've still got half a billet of that left somewhere, though I think the pattern might distort too much on something thin. Maybe a feather pattern Deba. The pattern actually went a bit wrong, as I split the wrong side of the billet, so when I welded it back together I had something called feathered seaweed, (lots have made this mistake on this pattern), rather than feathered W's. But you can see some W's floating around in there. I was happy with it anyway.

Here's a vid of me doing the first weld by hand then squaring the billet up in the press, hope this works as its photo-bucket video

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/th_NewProject-Medium.jpg (http://s798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/?action=view&current=NewProject-Medium.mp4)

This is after one of the scary bits of the pattern, splitting the precious W's billet.
http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy262/catcheside/IMGP0570.jpg

SpikeC
08-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Cool stuff!