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Avishar
08-11-2011, 04:01 AM
Since the day I started preparing food in a professional kitchen I always have tried to take the time to watch how everyone cuts different products and tried to figure out which way is fastest, wears the edge of our blades the least, and can be repeated continuously without excessive fatigue, thereby optimizing efficiency. I figured it would be helpful to many people to discuss different ways to cut different products, and different ways to use the blades. Diagrams, Videos, Pictures, Notes, Tricks & Cheats, and outside the realm of functional fixedness techniques are all awesome, how do you all do things and why?

To get things started:

Diced Onions: Radially, traditional French grid style, or other? Which way do you find the best? parallel cuts or no?

Bell Peppers: Cutting panels, cutting in half, or cutting tops and bottoms off and "rolling" them out?

Mincing Herbs: Rocking like a mill, once over, two knives, or the two handed side to side see-saw like motion?

Fish Skin: Which knife do you use? Do you saw, or hold the knife in place and pull the skin right through?

Tomatoes: If doing concasse, do you scoop out the center with a spoon, or splat it on the cutting board to remove the seeds and pulp?

etc. etc.

stevenStefano
08-11-2011, 10:40 AM
Onions: I cut radially, I think it is a lot neater than the traditional way and making parallel cuts.
Peppers: I just sorta roll them on the board with the knife then cut off the ends
Herbs: Just rock chop, don't bother putting both hands on the blade, it seems unnecessary to me
Fish: draw cut with whatever knife I have, usually a gyuto

I think generally, different foods merit different techniques. For example, I always draw cut if I am dicing tomatos with the skin on. If I am dicing cooked bacon I would rock. I don't really push cut as such, I use a slight drawing motion. I have tried the Japanese style thrust cutting but I just suck at it even though it looks cool

MadMel
08-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Onions: Traditional way
Bell peppers: I roll them out but do not cut off the tops and ends.. Those go off AFTER rolling it out.
Herbs: Rocking.. Fastest way IMO
Fish skin: Fillet knife, 6". Depending on how large the fish is, I use different techniques. For large fish like cod/tuna etc, I do something like what you would do while dressing meats. Other, more "manageable" sizes I would hold it down and pull basically.
Tomatoes: Now this is really subjective.. I've worked with 6 different chefs, 4 wants the concasse with seeds in cause that's where the liquid flavour is. For the others, seeds are a big no no.. As such, I usually de-seed each quarter with my knife...

Generally, I would push/trust/draw cut most stuff. Rocking for fine chopping herbs. Now if I was going to halve grapes/olives/tomatoes/rolls, the technique I use is the exact same one that is demonstrated by Theory in is recent vid.. That minimizes the number of times my edge touches the poly boards that are used by all the places that I have worked in so far..

Besides that, has anyone have a chef come up to them and tell them not to use a specific technique?? I have been told quite a few times by different chefs not to push/trust cut, but rather to do the traditional rocking motion for everything...

mhlee
08-11-2011, 02:11 PM
Avishar:

For fish skin, are you referring to portioning out fish fillets, skin on, with the skin on the board?

BertMor
08-11-2011, 04:33 PM
He means in butchering, prepping the fish, removing the skin. I use Either a long slicer, yanagiba or a chef/gyuto. I saw while shaking and pulling the skin.

Onions the traditional way. I have no problem getting them nice and even. I am a classicist
I've used all those methods on peppers. It depends what I am doing and how much I have to make
Herbs I do the two hand rock

Concasse - if i am doing traditional classic style, I quarter, cut out the pulp, then dice the fillets. I use the pulp for other things. Avoid using seeds they are bitter, but the pulp and liquid are yummy

mhlee
08-11-2011, 05:38 PM
Thanks Bert.

Here's what I do for fish:

For filleting fish, I use whatever I have around for small fish (a sharp point is crucial, however). For large fish, I use a combo of a cleaver (to hack of heads and collars, break pin bones or belly bones), and a larger knife (gyuto, breaking knife/scimitar, long flexible fillet knife, gyuto).

For cutting steaks from loins of fish, for small loins, I pull cut if I'm sure I can cut through the skin in one stroke. If not, I push. I usually use a breaking knife/scimitar or yanagiba. My reasoning is that you'll be able to exert more force at the heel of a knife than the tip when finishing a cut, and if the skin that you're trying to cut at the end of your stroke is tough, you might as well be cutting with more force than less. For larger loins that require two strokes, I pull and push - same reason as above. A really sharp knife makes this a LOT easier and allows me to only pull cut.

For skinning fillets, I do not saw. I pull straight through. Sawing, in my experience, creates divots or ridges in the meat. I use either a cheapo stainless 8 inch Dexter flexible fillet knife or 240 yanagiba. I try to hit that sweet spot between the skin and flesh (where there's oil and fat) and keep my edge angled slight down, not parallel to the board; I cut in between the skin and meat, grab the skin, and just pull the skin, but angling my knife down so it doesn't flip up into the meat. This is easiest on fresh fish; older fish may require a little of a "sawing" motion, but I move the skin slightly side to side, and push the knife a little forward.

Onions: haven't decided yet. I've been doing the traditional French style, but starting to do radially. Radially seems to be much better for slices, but still need to do more to see if it creates more consistent cuts when it comes to chopping and dicing. Theoretically, it seems that it would.

Bell Peppers: I generally roll out after cutting the tops and bottoms off.

Concasse: No preference, but I keep the seeds and juice. :)

Herbs: Depending on how finely I want them cut, I'll push cut for coarse chopping; rock cut for super fine cuts (sometimes just one hand, sometimes two).

Eamon Burke
08-12-2011, 12:01 AM
Diced Onions: Radial cuts, then across the grain. Quick and uniform.

Bell Peppers: Cut em in half, reach into the halves and put your fingers around the membranes and fingertips around the seeds, and pull it out over a trash can. Slap the cavity against your other palm to de-seed. Slice horizontally starting with the top end(because the tail end is more stable), and if you want the chopped, just turn the stack sideways and chop it up.

Mincing Herbs: Chiffonade, turn sideways, chop it up. Two-handed walk if necessary.

Fish Skin: I use what ever knife is not blazing sharp, so whatever I just broke the fish down with. I move the knife, not the skin(that would never work on a sani-tuff).


I actually have a method for dicing strawberries I am pretty proud of, you do it with a petty:
Strawberries: Grab by the tip, and push the knife in midair through the top. This way, the leaves don't cut and just come off with the top. Place cut end down. Pinch the strawberry in an upside-down 'u' shape grip, and pull the knife through the strawberry between your thumb and fingers, quickly twist the strawberry 90deg, and push the knife through 1/3 of the strawberry at a 45deg angle, creating two small pieces. Drop the strawberry over on the new cut surface, and push cut it 1 or 2 times, depending on the berry's size. Sounds complicated, but I can make a gigantic bowl of hacked up strawberry chunks in VERY short order. Each one is just zip-zip-zip--6 even pieces.

MadMel
08-12-2011, 12:40 AM
Diced Onions: Radial cuts, then across the grain. Quick and uniform.

Bell Peppers: Cut em in half, reach into the halves and put your fingers around the membranes and fingertips around the seeds, and pull it out over a trash can. Slap the cavity against your other palm to de-seed. Slice horizontally starting with the top end(because the tail end is more stable), and if you want the chopped, just turn the stack sideways and chop it up.

Mincing Herbs: Chiffonade, turn sideways, chop it up. Two-handed walk if necessary.

Fish Skin: I use what ever knife is not blazing sharp, so whatever I just broke the fish down with. I move the knife, not the skin(that would never work on a sani-tuff).


I actually have a method for dicing strawberries I am pretty proud of, you do it with a petty:
Strawberries: Grab by the tip, and push the knife in midair through the top. This way, the leaves don't cut and just come off with the top. Place cut end down. Pinch the strawberry in an upside-down 'u' shape grip, and pull the knife through the strawberry between your thumb and fingers, quickly twist the strawberry 90deg, and push the knife through 1/3 of the strawberry at a 45deg angle, creating two small pieces. Drop the strawberry over on the new cut surface, and push cut it 1 or 2 times, depending on the berry's size. Sounds complicated, but I can make a gigantic bowl of hacked up strawberry chunks in VERY short order. Each one is just zip-zip-zip--6 even pieces.

And vids for the strawberries??? LOL I really would wanna see that.. I'm more of a visual person.

JohnnyChance
08-12-2011, 01:24 AM
I actually have a method for dicing strawberries I am pretty proud of, you do it with a petty:
Strawberries: Grab by the tip, and push the knife in midair through the top. This way, the leaves don't cut and just come off with the top. Place cut end down. Pinch the strawberry in an upside-down 'u' shape grip, and pull the knife through the strawberry between your thumb and fingers, quickly twist the strawberry 90deg, and push the knife through 1/3 of the strawberry at a 45deg angle, creating two small pieces. Drop the strawberry over on the new cut surface, and push cut it 1 or 2 times, depending on the berry's size. Sounds complicated, but I can make a gigantic bowl of hacked up strawberry chunks in VERY short order. Each one is just zip-zip-zip--6 even pieces.

I have no idea what that means, haha. Pics or vid please.

I do radial cuts on onions. Much neater and uses more of the onion.

Peppers I cut the sides and bottom off, stack and cut as necessary.

Herbs for garnish I never mince. Mincing bruises them too much. I just go with a very fine chiffonade when I want something small.

MadMel
08-12-2011, 10:59 AM
I have no idea what that means, haha. Pics or vid please.

I do radial cuts on onions. Much neater and uses more of the onion.

Peppers I cut the sides and bottom off, stack and cut as necessary.

Herbs for garnish I never mince. Mincing bruises them too much. I just go with a very fine chiffonade when I want something small.

I also have some difficulty picturing radially cutting onions.. An explanation maybe?
I also agree with not mincing for garnishes. Usually it's herbs that go into a marinade/rub that gets the mince treatment.

Zerokhmer
08-12-2011, 11:16 AM
Onions - I do radial cuts vertically and I cut horizontally for a nice dice. I think this is the fastest way. Although, my chef will dice the onion by making batons and then dicing it like that which i think is ridiculous but whatever

Bell peppers - I roll them with out cutting the top or bottom off. The way I roll cut a bell pepper allows me to utilize as much of the pepper as possible and the only part left is the bottom which I cut after rolling it. If you do this right you can essentially skip the step of cleaning the ribs off of each panel of pepper.

Herbs - I bunch them up into a little bundle, as tight as possible, then I rock chop.

Fish Skin - I usually use whatever knife I have out whether it be my filet or my chefs/gyuto. I use a combo of sawing and pulling the skin while keeping the knife in one spot.

Tomatoes - For concasse, I cut the tomatoes in half and squeeze the seeds out then dice it up.

mhlee
08-12-2011, 12:09 PM
Fish Skin: I use what ever knife is not blazing sharp, so whatever I just broke the fish down with. I move the knife, not the skin(that would never work on a sani-tuff).



Actually, I learned to cut fish on a huge sani-tuff rubber board. A little moisture on the board may have helped (board was constantly wet with the fish we were cutting), but it most certainly can and does work on a sani-tuff board.

JohnnyChance
08-12-2011, 02:31 PM
I also have some difficulty picturing radially cutting onions.. An explanation maybe?
I also agree with not mincing for garnishes. Usually it's herbs that go into a marinade/rub that gets the mince treatment.

Cut off the top and bottom of onion so there is no root left over. Put them on the board right next to each other, with the ends touching. I start with the one on the left, so the half on the right helps keep the slices from falling apart. The slices I make are usually less than .25" thick. I slice the long way, like parallel with the "equator" of the onion, not top to bottom. After I finish the half on the left, I pinch the sliced half and the whole half and spin them 180 degrees so the whole half is now on the left. I then slice that one the same way, right to left, letting the other onion hold the pieces. After they are both sliced, I usually cut one half at a time top-to-bottom to finish the dice.

Did that make any sense? I can take some pictures/video instead.

jmforge
08-12-2011, 08:56 PM
Skinning a dolphin (mahi-mahi for you overly sensitive types) using the Key West dockside method. One cut behind the gills one lengthwise top and one bottom, short cut forward of the tail, grab the skin up by the gills with pliers, peel it off, take out the fillet with a Dexter fillet knife by running it under the fillet and connecting the original cuts for lack of a better explanation.........next!!!:biggrin:

stevenStefano
08-12-2011, 09:29 PM
Something I was thinking about is the size of blade and how it changes techniques. I think if you use 270s they make push cutting a lot easier because obviously with a bigger knife there is more of a sweet spot. I find 240s suit me ok but I might get a cheapish 270 like a Carbonext to see if I like it. If you rock I think smaller knives are ok because you are basically using the whole length of the blade, not just one flat part

JohnnyChance
08-13-2011, 02:02 AM
Skinning a dolphin (mahi-mahi for you overly sensitive types) using the Key West dockside method. One cut behind the gills one lengthwise top and one bottom, short cut forward of the tail, grab the skin up by the gills with pliers, peel it off, take out the fillet with a Dexter fillet knife by running it under the fillet and connecting the original cuts for lack of a better explanation.........next!!!:biggrin:

This guy has done a few.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_ZN1mHKvo&feature=player_detailpage

jmforge
08-13-2011, 04:08 AM
He left the skin on, but as you can see, if you have a sharp knife, the fillets pop right out. Our former captain used the typical Dexter knife, but he always had a basic water stone on the table.
This guy has done a few.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_ZN1mHKvo&feature=player_detailpage

sachem allison
08-13-2011, 05:13 AM
i dice my onions radially, it saves time
bell peppers i stand on their ends and cut down the sides, no ribs seeds or coring needed.
herbs I finely chiffonade and then rock and roll few seconds
Fish sometimes i saw and sometimes I pull depends if I remember what i am doing. I use my chef knife most of the time.
Tomatoes I do the same as the peppers and then take the cores and pulp and make sauce.

MadMel
08-13-2011, 06:14 AM
Cut off the top and bottom of onion so there is no root left over. Put them on the board right next to each other, with the ends touching. I start with the one on the left, so the half on the right helps keep the slices from falling apart. The slices I make are usually less than .25" thick. I slice the long way, like parallel with the "equator" of the onion, not top to bottom. After I finish the half on the left, I pinch the sliced half and the whole half and spin them 180 degrees so the whole half is now on the left. I then slice that one the same way, right to left, letting the other onion hold the pieces. After they are both sliced, I usually cut one half at a time top-to-bottom to finish the dice.

Did that make any sense? I can take some pictures/video instead.

I can slightly picture that but as I said I'm a visual person lol so vids/pics would be more of a help :)

bieniek
08-13-2011, 09:00 AM
When I was apprenticing in hotel I would have to chop around 50-100 kilos of onions a week.
I up-down rock chop them either if in dice or slice. For the start it was heavy job but once you get used to volume it doesnt trouble you anymore.
Im peeling onion with paring, cutiing the just the top of the bottom part and the tail. Then cut in half and start off with the tail-end.

"Conasse" just by cutting tomato into 4 pieces, insides out with a knife and i cut around to get rectangle shape. I would say around 12-15 squares out of each wedge from medium sized plum tomato - if I ever use them.

Fish skinning with yanagi but more often gyuto, I dont move fish but the blade, looking slightly downwards, sometimes I would help myself moving the knife a bit to the sides.

I never actually chop herbs anymore. I just slice them thinly stacked together. I hate oils/juices flowing out, so I try as neat cuts as possible without too much pressing.

Peppers I turn around without cutting tops and bottoms first, as mentioned earlier. From hows capsicum built you can guess how thick the walls are and cut enough so theres no white parts left.

Avishar
08-14-2011, 12:51 AM
I cut onions both ways actually, I am leaning towards radially because it seems to be more efficient, and the theory is right (onions grow in layers, not flats, so it would seem to make more sense). I do find I can get a fine mince easier with the standard cross cutting method. Do you guys like to slice horizontally first? It seems to make more sense to do that, but it also seems to mess up the vertical or radial slices, in terms of more pieces coming out when cutting.

For shallots, I like cutting them in half, cutting vertical slices and then cutting crosswise to mince.

Bell peppers I typically roll out, but I am finding that cutting panels gives longer strips and eliminates the need for cutting the tops and the bottoms seperately. Do you all like to stack the pile of strips (not calling it julienne to avoid offending people who use words for precise dimensions) or just do a pepper or two at a time? As long as its not a picky precision cut I find stacking them to work just fine!

For large sides of fish like salmon, I like to use a ham slicer/salmon slicer or yanagi and hold it almost parallel to the board and use the natural rigidity of the skin along with a kitchen towel to pull it right off. For fish butchery I like a Deba or Western Deba.

I don't do concasse as much, but when I do I like to splat the tomato half on the cutting board and the pulp comes right off! If I am doing a monder I like to cut the tomato lengthwise, roll it 90 degrees, cut it lengthwise, and line them up and cut them all with a sujihiki or slicer.

I like cutting cubes of hard boiled eggs for a salad by pressing them through the side of a deep fryer basket, anyone else do that?

And for parsnips and large carrots I like oblique cutting until I get to an unmanageable section, then cutting it into quarters and finishing

I like splitting green beans, scapes and other items of that nature by using a paring knife or honesuke and splitting them off the board by using the stationary blade and pulling the product through it.

Anyone here still do tourne where they work?

JohnnyChance
08-14-2011, 12:56 AM
Anyone here still do tourne where they work?

Fck no.



I like your hard boiled egg trick, haha.

Zerokhmer
08-14-2011, 02:28 AM
i dice my onions radially, it saves time
bell peppers i stand on their ends and cut down the sides, no ribs seeds or coring needed.
herbs I finely chiffonade and then rock and roll few seconds
Fish sometimes i saw and sometimes I pull depends if I remember what i am doing. I use my chef knife most of the time.
Tomatoes I do the same as the peppers and then take the cores and pulp and make sauce.

A little of topic but did you go to Sachem High School?

Citizen Snips
08-14-2011, 04:38 AM
we still turn veggies sometimes

stuck in the 70's

MadMel
08-14-2011, 05:21 AM
Anyone here still do tourne where they work?

Used to do it once in a while..

ThEoRy
08-14-2011, 11:06 PM
A couple of those things mentioned are in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPiz6Aaa7Eg

More peppers onions etc here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LtTbxIlTE

Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N1ZGkMzGPI

More Fish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77JuPxe_5Kw

Even More Fish!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpZVArgxJ2M


Plenty more where that came from. :laugh:

jmforge
08-14-2011, 11:36 PM
Cool videos, but the soundtrack fills me with the urge to go shoot up a fish market.:sad0::lol2:
A couple of those things mentioned are in here.

heirkb
08-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I'd also appreciate a video or just a picture of the radial cutting. I can't quite visualize it just from reading it.

Wagstaff
08-15-2011, 12:07 AM
I'd also appreciate a video or just a picture of the radial cutting. I can't quite visualize it just from reading it.

Look at the red onion in the second video. I think that's what you're asking about, anyway.

JohnnyChance
08-15-2011, 12:48 AM
That is the traditional onion, except Theory does the first set of vertical cuts before the horizontal cuts.

Wagstaff
08-15-2011, 02:25 AM
the vertical aren't really vertical though... a vertical cut at the top of the onion, angled more acutely (relative to the board) on the first "vertical" cut. That is, first after it's halved. No? The knife is clearly "tilted".

JohnnyChance
08-15-2011, 02:59 AM
True. I don't know what it is called, but here is how I cut an onion:

Halve it north to south and cut off the tip and the root completely. Peel. Stack north to north, or south to south.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VtgZB65aqxM/Tki1rf4iyeI/AAAAAAAAA2c/LFPPwojk0mE/s640/IMG_0776.JPG

Starting with the half on your left (if right handed), slice the long ways, parallel with the "equator" of the onion, at your desired thickness. Between technique and the other half of the onion holding the slices, the onions should stay intact. Each slice is a quick "snik" usually with the tip of the knife. Towards the end it likes to fall apart so I usually push cut the last couple slices.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hwy4gyu8xS4/Tki1gNDkG7I/AAAAAAAAA2Y/E7RUccfteLA/s640/IMG_0777.JPG

Pinch the two halves of the onion together and flip them 180 degrees, so the uncut half is now on your left, and you can cut it right to left without it falling apart.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_-O_mPkbhgs/Tki1gJRkMXI/AAAAAAAAA2Q/k-tc3OjAgQU/s640/IMG_0778.JPG

All sliced. Please excuse my poor cuts. They are normally more uniform, I swear!
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gMsnXzy6HDQ/Tki1gGpgZeI/AAAAAAAAA2U/6AwrTItuiMg/s640/IMG_0779.JPG

Now you can either cut both at once, or one at a time. I usually do one at a time. Start cutting the onion north-to-south, an angle helps at first to get more uniform pieces.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e5pqZj73v68/Tki14cBbFtI/AAAAAAAAA2s/bchvP5HN7Ag/s640/IMG_0781.JPG

When I get to about here...
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tHnXyv9LnFw/Tki11LCttdI/AAAAAAAAA2o/gn9hkunyjzM/s640/IMG_0782.JPG

...I drop the last 1/4 of the onion down onto it's now bigger face.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iwcNV2gJWVI/Tki1sxyF4YI/AAAAAAAAA2k/vhM8imwY44U/s640/IMG_0783.JPG

And finish cutting straight up and down. And that's it!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UzO1JmXoYmM/Tki1svrj90I/AAAAAAAAA2g/kySjv7Mhs4c/s640/IMG_0784.JPG

heirkb
08-15-2011, 04:56 AM
Thank you for the pictures. It's similar to what I had imagined but not the same thing, so the pictures helped a lot.

stevenStefano
08-15-2011, 11:27 AM
I do it slighty different JohnnyChance. I keep the root on and do the angled cuts like in your 5th picture first. Then I cut the other way like in your second picture. Basically the same method just done slightly different

Wagstaff
08-15-2011, 10:31 PM
So vocabulary issue... I think the "angled cuts" is what's being described as "radial" cutting. Is this right? Just wanting to get on the same (semantic) page.

I've been doing it as steveStefano does, as of recently. Works real well without the angled cuts. (BTW, I first posted here having let it slip my mind that I was in the "Back of the House" section... so I'm sorry for interpolating my non-pro self in here, if that's a bother!)

Wagstaff
08-15-2011, 10:33 PM
Previous post - I meant not without the "angled" cuts, but without the horizontal cuts. And not only am I interpolating myself, but typing badly and can't figure out how to edit a post. n00bs. Whaddaya gonna do?

JohnnyChance
08-16-2011, 12:21 AM
I do it slighty different JohnnyChance. I keep the root on and do the angled cuts like in your 5th picture first. Then I cut the other way like in your second picture. Basically the same method just done slightly different

Well then I would say that is completely different. That is nearly the traditional way (root on, horizontal cuts, north-south cuts, then equator cuts). You just skip the horizontal cuts and angle your north-south cuts.


So vocabulary issue... I think the "angled cuts" is what's being described as "radial" cutting. Is this right? Just wanting to get on the same (semantic) page.

I've been doing it as steveStefano does, as of recently. Works real well without the angled cuts. (BTW, I first posted here having let it slip my mind that I was in the "Back of the House" section... so I'm sorry for interpolating my non-pro self in here, if that's a bother!)


Previous post - I meant not without the "angled" cuts, but without the horizontal cuts. And not only am I interpolating myself, but typing badly and can't figure out how to edit a post. n00bs. Whaddaya gonna do?

Haha, you are more than welcome in the Back of the House section. I am not sure what everyone else means by radial cuts, but I called mine radial because I was making the "equator" cuts first and not bothering with horizontal cuts or leaving the root on. The main reason I switched to my method was because I hated leaving the root on and having that piece at the end, that I feel is too big to throw away, and too annoying to make cuts from it match cuts from the rest of the onion.

Avishar
08-16-2011, 10:42 PM
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2998/oniondiagram.png

Although I have the MSPaint skills of a 2 year old, I think this is the visualization of what I consider traditional and radial, I still cut across when doing radial sometimes when the onion is huge but it might just be out of habit! Hopefully this clarifies things up a bit. I'm going to give your technique a shot Johnnychance, it seems effective!

Wagstaff
08-17-2011, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the graphic! That's what I was thinking. I'm cutting up a bunch of onions today at my parents' place, so I'm going to try Johnnychance's way, too. We're not doing anything that requires perfect uniformity. I'm going to show my dad 4 or 5 different ways I've learned, see what seems like most fun for him (and me).