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View Full Version : Help to Design a Forum Knife!



Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 05:14 PM
Hi folks, I'm hoping that I can get some input on a knife design made from YOUR collective minds. As we've seen in the past, forum groups can come up with some great ideas that meet the demands of many.

So my questions (to start off with anyway) are what knife type, steel, handle configuration, and handle material would you go with for your perfect knife?

Drawings, pictures, etc are all welcome to help illustrate your ideas.

Let's see what you can come up with for me to make, it's an open slate so please speak up! :)

Thanks,
Dave

UglyJoe
03-06-2011, 05:45 PM
There have been several of these in the past, and personally I'd like something a little different. Maybe a go at a single bevel knife? I'd love to see a forum designed deba. I guess the problem is we'd be needing a stock removal as opposed to forged knife, and I don't know if you can get the kind of laminated steel you need for traditional knives via stock removal. It would be cool though.

obtuse
03-06-2011, 06:08 PM
I would like a classic french profile with a thin, concave grind. I would like the steel to be DC53. I would like a stabilized wood handle.

Jim
03-06-2011, 10:27 PM
If I had my way, a carbon steel scimitar on Devin's pattern. :)

Pensacola Tiger
03-06-2011, 10:34 PM
If I had my way, a carbon steel scimitar on Devin's pattern. :)

If Dave starts making knives in Devin's feather pattern damascus, I might just as well start a direct deposit to him.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx226/Pensacola_Tiger/Misc%20Photos/1294714204-Dad_003_new.jpg

ecchef
03-06-2011, 10:47 PM
There seems to be some interest in the Tojiro boning knife at present, and with so few options something in that direction might be appealing.

Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 10:55 PM
Man are we all over the place or what? :D

Keep the ideas flowing though guys, I'm open to try almost anything.

Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 10:56 PM
PS - I LOVE Devin's feather pattern!!!!!

UglyJoe
03-06-2011, 11:04 PM
Dave, is a single bevel traditional knife even possible? I've often wondered why we have a lot of solid steel options in the western knives (like konosuke, etc.), but not for traditional knives, other than the forged honyaki knives. Would it be possible to do say a mioroshi deba in solid white #2 or something like that, stock removal and normal heat treat, no mizu hamon line, etc., maybe keeping the hardness down a little to help with brittleness? I don't even know if I'd want a knife like that, but I have often wondered why the option isn't there. Surely if one can make a solid suji 300+ long and Konosuke thin then you could do the same thing with a deba or yanagi. Maybe not?

Dave Martell
03-06-2011, 11:26 PM
I think it's about the complexity of the grind?

obtuse
03-06-2011, 11:36 PM
I meant convex grind.

UglyJoe
03-07-2011, 12:20 AM
I think it's about the complexity of the grind?

Hmm. Don't know how that would cause a problem... unless you mean the ura side.... but that side is already steel in traditional knives, so I don't really like that either.... other than that you'd have the shinogi, but I can't see why a billet of white #2 can't work from stock removal, but can work for forged honyaki... I just wonder if no one has ever tried it before.

Dave Martell
03-07-2011, 12:34 AM
Yeah that's the issue, no one does it much. Butch has ground 2 yanagis to date, though both not in Japanese steel, they are mono steel knives non the less.

JohnnyChance
03-07-2011, 02:23 AM
There seems to be some interest in the Tojiro boning knife at present, and with so few options something in that direction might be appealing.

another vote for a western style boning knife made with better steel . i would prefer it even longer than the tojiro boning knife. carbon and western handled is fine by me.

sw2geeks
03-07-2011, 02:44 AM
Hey, being a cleaver guy I vote... a cleaver!

obtuse
03-07-2011, 08:58 AM
I would like a boning knife. Maybe out of a steel that's tough, dc53, a2, o1, aeb-l. Definitely something fun, I haven't used a knife made out of a2 and that's easy to acquire.

Jim
03-07-2011, 09:43 AM
If I had my way, a carbon steel scimitar on Devin's pattern. :)


PS - I LOVE Devin's feather pattern!!!!!

I was suggesting a plain carbon steel knife, it would then be much more affordable to many of the men.

cnochef
03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
I would be on board for either a honesuki/garasuki or scimitar with 01 Steel and western handle.

add
03-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Gyuto is the easy answer but perhaps with so many different ideas on the ideal gyuto, you may end up having something watered down.

A good effective parer or cleaver (Chinese) seem to be pretty well defined by most kitchen knife knuts.
It would seem the modern home cook may not bone that often (;)) anymore to justify interest.

Priorities from my experience:

1) Blade geometry (profile, cross sections, etc.) and design
2) Proper heat treat (and specifically hardness to type of steel to be used)

3) Steel type- junk aside (and a distant third in relation to the two above),

cnochef
03-07-2011, 04:59 PM
It would seem the modern home cook may not bone that often (;)) anymore to justify interest.

While that may be true for the general public, I don't think it is true for the knife nuts here. I think many of us de-bone and cut our own meat, making the choice of a honesuki/garasuki or scimitar viable.

obtuse
03-07-2011, 06:28 PM
I could definitely use a nice boner or butcher knife... I have 11 gyutos...

tk59
03-07-2011, 06:29 PM
I'd suggest not doing anything single bevel except a honesuki-type knife. It seems like everybody and their mother is doing gyutos. It also seems like small blades are disproportionately expensive (I doubt we'll be seeing too many DTITK pettys.) Therefore, I would say it has to be 200+ mm suji or cleaver. I don't think a gyuto would necessarily be a bad idea but it will have to be "different." Think of a wierd profile that works and people will buy it. Of course, I'm assuming you want to sell a lot of them and make them semi-custom. Somebody on one of the forums posted a cleaver with a point cut into it like a really tall kiritsuke-type profile. I'm thinking about trying this out...

echerub
03-07-2011, 08:52 PM
I think the gyuto market is pretty crowded at the moment - it'll be hard to make something truly unique. That, and many of us who would be the initial market already have many gyutos on hand for different times, uses, and moods. A cleaver would be nice indeed. I happen to like nakiri, but they're not widely popular so that's not a good start to the series.

If we're sticking with double-bevels, I think a full-size cleaver is about all that appeals to me at the moment.

deanb
03-07-2011, 09:40 PM
Dave,

I'd be interested in a honesuki or a deba, wa stabilized handle, and AEB-L steel. I'm running out of room for new knives but I have neither a honesuki nor a deba. I love AEB-L. Best wishes on Your new venture.

Dean

UnConundrum
03-07-2011, 09:50 PM
How about something different? What about a steak knife designed along the lines of a honesuki. I always loved the ones Joe bought. There's something sexy about how a really sharp knife cuts through a good steak (of course, not all the way to the plate).

vai777
03-07-2011, 10:04 PM
How bout a super high end sujihuki / gyuto hybrid ... a true do it all knife....White #1 / W2 for carbon options or AEB-L / SRS-15 for a stainless option

Marko Tsourkan
03-07-2011, 10:15 PM
gyuto - suji hybrid, like well used Masamoto KS gyuto?

vai777
03-07-2011, 10:23 PM
gyuto - suji hybrid, like well used Masamoto KS gyuto?

yes exactly like that....

vai777
03-07-2011, 10:29 PM
Funayuki

vai777
03-07-2011, 10:43 PM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5554/50751x.jpg

see...

l r harner
03-07-2011, 11:22 PM
quote
How about something different? What about a steak knife designed along the lines of a honesuki. I always loved the ones Joe bought. There's something sexy about how a really sharp knife cuts through a good steak (of course, not all the way to the plate).
end quote
wait till you see what im working on they will be WA handeled and there will be 4 of them

get you wood cutting plates ready :)

mr drinky
03-07-2011, 11:27 PM
I second a good parer. That last Devin Thomas parer was oh so sexy.

k.

EDIT: Second thought, I read tk59's comment and agree that small knives are disproportionately expensive. Strike that. ...but that knife was pretty cool...

mr drinky
03-08-2011, 12:10 AM
I am in a very tiny minority here I think, but I wouldn't mind a western handled slicer that is 220-230mm. If you look at the middle photo on this link it will give you some idea.

http://www.maruyoshi-mtc.co.jp/merchandise1-6.html

Since most wouldn't probably care for that, I wouldn't mind a honesuki either.

k.

Dave Martell
03-08-2011, 12:15 AM
I know I said anything but the cleaver is off the list. They just flat suck to grind. :)

PierreRodrigue
03-08-2011, 01:22 AM
Ground out my first one today, and yes it was a chore, took two hours steady going.

Marko Tsourkan
03-08-2011, 01:38 AM
Funayuki

I like a narrow gyuto, 2" or slightly under. Maybe I started liking narrow ones, because I have a piece of damasus I forged at Devin's that is 2" tall, and using it for a narrower slicer seems such a waste of good steel! :)
Masamoto shape is my favorite along with Shigefusa's (similar to shape you picked for your knives, Dave) just a little bit narrower.

Mr. Drinky - there are some folks here who like slicers in 240mm length.

ecchef
03-08-2011, 02:11 AM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5554/50751x.jpg

see...

Wow...that's nice Bruce. What is it?

Vertigo
03-08-2011, 02:31 AM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5554/50751x.jpg

see...
Um... this gets my vote please.

antonio_luiz
03-08-2011, 05:29 AM
I would like to see a parer - maybe partnered to something else but definitely a parer

obtuse
03-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Um... this gets my vote please.

One more vote for that as well... +1

obtuse
03-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Um... this gets my vote please.

One more vote for that as well... +1

Jim
03-08-2011, 12:11 PM
How about a 260mm funayuki? :)

oivind_dahle
03-08-2011, 12:31 PM
How bout a cleaver/noodle knife - call it a cleanoodle knife :)

Jim
03-08-2011, 12:34 PM
How bout a cleaver/noodle knife - call it a cleanoodle knife :)

Or noodleaver?
hahaha.

sudsy9977
03-08-2011, 01:30 PM
I vote for Western boning knife, one that doesn't suck to sharpen, thin, carbon, not flexible, ryan

UglyJoe
03-08-2011, 02:09 PM
Wow...that's nice Bruce. What is it?

That's a Carter gyuto/funayuki. Just way, way longer than Carter would ever do except for a custom order. I like this as well if we can't do something single bevel.

I tend to agree with a lot of people talking about how the gyuto market is kind of flooded. Unless we can do something to keep the price WAY down, then you are talking something in the $300 range. A lot of people have mentioned the Masamoto KS for profile, but unless the price is well below or at least competitive with the Masamoto, most people would just buy the Masamoto. Same thing with the other forum knives. It's hard to get a niche that makes designing a guyto worthwhile.

I kind of like the boning knife idea, and if there was any way to do a nice petty but keep it down in price that would be ideal, I think, but from the other petty's in this range of similar knives, I don't think there is any way to do one that would cost less than $200. Hard to compete with Konosuke, etc. in petty costs. I still like the idea of a single bevel if it could be pulled off...

Chef Niloc
03-08-2011, 02:15 PM
I like the scimitar idea as I only have cheep ones. I like the stainless clad carbon steel knives a lot these days. looks cool & you get the best of both worlds, easer to use at work

add
03-08-2011, 04:34 PM
A shorter "Carteresque" funayuki or a BBQ knife like a criollo?

The knife may well need to have some broader appeal to carry a decent sized run and keep costs down... :)

JohnnyChance
03-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I like the scimitar idea as I only have cheep ones. I like the stainless clad carbon steel knives a lot these days. looks cool & you get the best of both worlds, easer to use at work

This is definitely an over looked part of the market. Boning knives and scimitars are mostly only available by cheap manufacturers in poor steel. Granted these appeal to pros way more than the home user, but I think even some home users here would end up with one seeing as they are unique and we find any excuse to get a new knife. The BBQ guys could use both, boning for trim, scimitar for slicing.

chuck239
03-08-2011, 06:24 PM
Dave,

How about something like a Masamoto KS gyuto/suji hybrid. I find myself using a suji more but like more knuckle clearance. I have a 240 suji that I had custom made from Pierre with more height than a normal suji and I love it. But would love something in a 270 size and the Masamoto profile is great.

I must say I do also like the idea of some butchering knives.

-Chuck

jaybett
03-08-2011, 07:00 PM
I know I said anything but the cleaver is off the list. They just flat suck to grind. :)

Wimp!

Jay

l r harner
03-09-2011, 12:49 AM
for sure cleaves suck to grind out and till you do one you will never really know (its not jstu 2 8 inch chef blades on top each other )

sw2geeks
03-09-2011, 01:10 AM
How about a Mini-Cleaver, sort of like my saw cleaver. But this time more of a chopper.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4510069390_14e3844c21.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/11879543@N06/4510069390/)
CornishHen-5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/11879543@N06/4510069390/) by Steve_3D (http://www.flickr.com/people/11879543@N06/), on Flickr

Bryan G.
03-09-2011, 05:45 AM
yes exactly like that....

I'm down with this. Suji's are my favorite style ... This is something I've been interested in ever since Scott brought the Massamoto to my attention.

As well I am a big Funyuki fan. If you are doing a gyuto you need to hollow ground/large bevel front and back sides so it tapers down. Thin is good but thin all the way through is not an all around knife.

Another thing I have always wanted but not sure if it is able to be done, is a single bevel gyuto (on thinner side but not a complete laser) that is hollowed on the backside like a yanagiba or deba. And at the tip, Kiritsuke/suji style.

Steel ... I know everyone is into higher-end stuff... But honestly some of the cheaper carbons work really well and would help keep the price down, gaurantee you would sell more. You NEED a budget line from a Chef standpoint.

After that on a more custom level, I love any carbon, white, blue, even semi-stainless, you name it.

Stainless I will leave to you guys. Just go stainless or carbon. Leave the cladding to the Hiros Dave, please.

This is if I had the know-how to play Frankenstien.

-Bryan

obtuse
03-09-2011, 10:33 AM
I think cladding would bring the price up too high. Also a steel that needs cryo will bring the price up. I say stick with O1 or AEB-L at 58 rockwell. The handles should be simple wa, or bolsterless western to keep the price down. AEB-L and O1 can be bought in strip form and water jet cut to cut costs.

Dave Martell
03-09-2011, 11:21 AM
You guys are really coming up with some great ideas and concepts. I'm watching and listening here - trust me I am. :)

obtuse
03-09-2011, 11:26 AM
I wrote "O1 or AEB-L at 58 Rockwell" I meant O1 at 60+ Rockwell; AEB-L, without cryo, treated to 58 Rockwell. I don't think ultra high hardness is needed in something that will contact bone.

Darkhoek
03-09-2011, 05:54 PM
How about a Mini-Cleaver, sort of like my saw cleaver. But this time more of a chopper.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4510069390_14e3844c21.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/11879543@N06/4510069390/)
CornishHen-5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/11879543@N06/4510069390/) by Steve_3D (http://www.flickr.com/people/11879543@N06/), on Flickr

That was a cute little thingy :D
Lovely cleaver!

DarkHOeK

oivind_dahle
03-09-2011, 05:56 PM
I would like a forum bread knife. However serrated edges kill my boards.

I need a 300 gyuto / deba bread knife. Anyone got ideas?

Tristan
03-10-2011, 03:39 AM
Forum bread knife in damascus, or 6 damascus forum steak knives with burl wood handles.

I'll park some money aside in a bank account. Let me know when I need to make a withdrawal...

Marko Tsourkan
03-10-2011, 09:24 AM
I think cladding would bring the price up too high. Also a steel that needs cryo will bring the price up. I say stick with O1 or AEB-L at 58 rockwell. The handles should be simple wa, or bolsterless western to keep the price down. AEB-L and O1 can be bought in strip form and water jet cut to cut costs.

Some heat treat processes are a must for a quality product, so I see no point of skipping them for the sake of lowering costs. At the same time, one doesn't have to go crazy with some time-intensive multi-step HT process, if it might only provide some marginal benefit.

Water jet cutting blanks, less expensive handle options for sake of keeping costs down would be fine.

I think 60-62RC hardness would be more desirable for fine grained steels, like O1 for the edge retention. For the abrasion resistant steels, 57-58RC would be more appropriate.
M

obtuse
03-10-2011, 09:53 AM
Ashi Hamono and other makers seem to make quality blades out of AEB-L at 58 Rockwell. Cryo would be nice, I would love a Devin Thomas style AEB-L heat treatment.

Marko Tsourkan
03-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Ashi Hamono and other makers seem to make quality blades out of AEB-L at 58 Rockwell. Cryo would be nice, I would love a Devin Thomas style AEB-L heat treatment.

It depends on what quality IS. Ashi Hamono is a production-oriented company and produces knives in high volume inexpensively, as they do a lot of OEM for other brands. Ashi has plenty of equipment, so labor input there can be reduced. I think the consensus has been that in a production knife-making, heat treatment is often not optimal as no company will spend 6-8 hours on heat treating a knife to get most of a steel.


Forum Knife would be a custom or semi-custom (depends how you look at it) knife, the only exception is that steel is not forged. Anything that labeled custom or semi-custom, should have an appropriate quality and an appropriate price, in my opinion.

M

obtuse
03-10-2011, 10:21 AM
If it's within the means of the knife maker I'd be very happy with a better heat treatment. I just don't know what kind of equipment Dave has or if he's going to out source HT.

EdipisReks
03-10-2011, 10:24 AM
i think a carbon suji would be neat. wa or yo, either would be great. 270-300mm. a little bit of meat to the spine, but not too much.

WildBoar
03-10-2011, 05:43 PM
boning, scimitar or deba -- already have kick-ass gyutos, suji, petty and paring :)

echerub
03-10-2011, 06:03 PM
If a single-bevel knife is a possibility, I'd be all over a nice deba.

Avishar
03-11-2011, 12:52 AM
I would like to see a Kiritsuke or that style design, a well made honesuki, or something that differs or distinguishes itself from the usual/already available options of previous forum knives! Carbon (O1) would definitely be a plus, and I think a little bit of heft in it wouldn't be a bad thing whatever style it ends up being.

EdipisReks
03-11-2011, 05:03 PM
a Kiritsuke would be cool.

Dave Martell
03-11-2011, 05:57 PM
So we have votes for a lot of different things, almost all over the place, but yet a few common things have come up. First you guys would like to see something different being done, second is the call for boning knives (the assorted family) to be made, and third is a cleaver. Well since I'm not trying to be masochistic I will steer away from the cleaver which then leaves boning knives which of course fulfills the requirement of being a bit different. Why don't we head in that direction then?

If I we are to go that way what patterns should we consider? There's western and Japanese types. I know that I'd be loving to try doing some scimitars (I already have a great pattern) but what about the rest?

obtuse
03-11-2011, 08:24 PM
For a boner, I'd like a stiff one about 6 inches long; also, I'd prefer if it were western. O1 60-61, 13C26 58-62. Scimitar! O1 60-62, CPM or traditional D2 61 with cryo, just think of that toothy edge. Maybe there should be a poll =)

cnochef
03-11-2011, 10:38 PM
For a boner, I'd like a stiff one about 6 inches long; also, I'd prefer if it were western. O1 60-61, 13C26 58-62. Scimitar! O1 60-62, CPM or traditional D2 61 with cryo, just think of that toothy edge. Maybe there should be a poll =)

+1 on all of that!

UnConundrum
03-11-2011, 10:43 PM
For a boner, I'd like a stiff one about 6 inches long

OK, I'll behave myself and make no comment.

SpikeC
03-11-2011, 10:43 PM
I don't think that I want a toothy edge on my boner..............

JohnnyChance
03-11-2011, 10:48 PM
If I we are to go that way what patterns should we consider? There's western and Japanese types. I know that I'd be loving to try doing some scimitars (I already have a great pattern) but what about the rest?


Western boning with good steel and handle. For pros that style is useful, and it basically doesnt exist, save for the tojiro boning knife, and one know those DPs leave something to be desired in the handle department. Japanese style you can get, either a hankotsu or honesuki. If you made a "butchers set" with a boner and scim i know id buy one.

ChrisBelgium
03-12-2011, 12:38 PM
Hi Dave, I made a design of the kind of knife I would really like, namely not to much curve and above all elegant, hence the worktitle I gave them; Chowa.
I posted a few drawings some time ago on KF, but I returned the designs to the freezer. Personally I'm a stainless steel guy and I prefer western handles. These drawings were made on my computer, so I printed them out in a 1/1 version. There are 2 slightly different western handled ones. Actually, I can't decide which one. I cut out the prints and glued them on a piece of cardboard. Here they are compared to my Hattori 240.
Oh, yes, isn't a 240mm version something probably most viewers are after?
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/compare.jpg

The following drawing is what they could look like. Same knives as above, but pimped on my computer.
I already have a slight preference for the first handle. It also feels better in hand (well, the cardboard version does);
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/ChowaWestern4.jpg

And since most knifenuts prefer wa-handles, here is the whole family in uni-clothing
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/chowaCollectieUni.jpg

And the same ones in fantasy-clothing.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/chowaCollectieDiv.jpg

Dave Martell
03-12-2011, 01:04 PM
Oh damn - an entire knife line! Very nice.

ChrisBelgium
03-12-2011, 01:28 PM
Just to make it all a little more confusing (the best ideas occur in total chaos), these slicers.
I'd love to hear suggestions on these, since the latest post are all about "boning". Would you guys use the short one as a de-boning knife?
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/asadoCollectie.jpg

obtuse
03-12-2011, 01:55 PM
Damn, You put a lot of thought into that! Just one suggestion from me, the gyuto's tip is really low--almost santoku like. I like a flat profile, but with a tip a little higher.

I like the BBQ slicers. I think the small one is too big for boning. Right now I'm deboning chicken with a 210mm yo-deba and it's too clumsy.

JohnnyChance
03-12-2011, 02:55 PM
Just to make it all a little more confusing (the best ideas occur in total chaos), these slicers.
I'd love to hear suggestions on these, since the latest post are all about "boning". Would you guys use the short one as a de-boning knife?
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/asadoCollectie.jpg

I really like the 240 here. I want a custom carving scimitar in a similar shape to this, something I can bring to friends and family's house when I am in charge with carving something. But the heel is still big enough for knuckle clearance if I have to use it on a board for misc prep tasks. I was planning on getting a damascus one with an exotic handle, since it would be used mostly for presentation carving, i feel something elegant and fancy is appropriate.

The 210 would be useful as a boning knife if the heel was like 18-20mm tall, the profile is good for one, just too tall. You could also shorten it to about 190-200mm.

so_sleepy
03-12-2011, 03:36 PM
The western 240 looks great, you could put it into production just like that. I don't think I have seen anything like that BBQ slicer it looks just right for brisket. It might be better at 300mm but 270 is more versatile.

Pensacola Tiger
03-12-2011, 04:18 PM
The western 240 looks great, you could put it into production just like that. I don't think I have seen anything like that BBQ slicer it looks just right for brisket. It might be better at 300mm but 270 is more versatile.

Looks a bit like the Bark River carver:

http://barkriverknives.com/albums/album310/Kit_Cvr_Amb_Red_Liners_S.sized.jpg

so_sleepy
03-12-2011, 04:28 PM
I forgot about the Barkie. if I remember correctly, it was only 9.5 inches, so 240mm territory, a little short for a BBQ slicer, but great for a fancy carving knife at the table. I would have bought one, but didn't realize they were a limited run. They were discontinued before I got around to it.

mr drinky
03-12-2011, 06:07 PM
How about a damascus prison shank ;)

http://specialmagickitchen.com/prison_shank.jpg

k.

obtuse
03-12-2011, 06:19 PM
How about a damascus prison shank ;)

http://specialmagickitchen.com/prison_shank.jpg

k.

Please!

Pensacola Tiger
03-12-2011, 06:29 PM
I forgot about the Barkie. if I remember correctly, it was only 9.5 inches, so 240mm territory, a little short for a BBQ slicer, but great for a fancy carving knife at the table. I would have bought one, but didn't realize they were a limited run. They were discontinued before I got around to it.

There's still one here:

http://www.knivesshipfree.com/index.php?cPath=465_485_572

so_sleepy
03-12-2011, 07:35 PM
There's still one here:

http://www.knivesshipfree.com/index.php?cPath=465_485_572

They have a picture of the chef's knife posted with the carving knife listing. I'll give them a call to see what's up.
Thanks.

ChrisBelgium
03-13-2011, 10:24 AM
Damn, You put a lot of thought into that! Just one suggestion from me, the gyuto's tip is really low--almost santoku like. I like a flat profile, but with a tip a little higher.

I like the BBQ slicers. I think the small one is too big for boning. Right now I'm deboning chicken with a 210mm yo-deba and it's too clumsy.


The idea behind the gyuoto was indeed to have a flatter curve than usual. It's a matter of preference.
The slicers are ment to be nothing else, but the idea of a deboning knife in the same shape could be done. I would also make a deboning knife shorter and lower like you and JohnyChance suggest

ChrisBelgium
03-13-2011, 10:34 AM
The western 240 looks great, you could put it into production just like that. I don't think I have seen anything like that BBQ slicer it looks just right for brisket. It might be better at 300mm but 270 is more versatile.

Thanks! I really like that western 240 too. I cook a lot as a home cook and this is what I'm looking for. I'm convinced it is a very usefull design. The low tip makes it more user-friendly; you don't have lift the handle too much when cutting with the tip. The flat curve makes it ideal to make long and steady slices. There's also not one single straight millimeter in that curve, imo something really necessary in using a cooking knife on a cutting board.

cnochef
03-13-2011, 02:58 PM
If you made a "butchers set" with a boner and scim i know id buy one.

Now we're onto something, a butcher's set would be totally unique in the annals of Forum knives not to mention totally cool for both knife nuts and pros.

I really don't think we need more gyutos at this time, besides Dave is already doing one for his first run of knives.

Next, I think a (relatively) reasonable-priced AEBL paring knife with a thinner profile micarta handle would be very useful and popular.

Dave Martell
03-13-2011, 06:05 PM
You guys are really winding me up with ideas. I feeling the butcher's knife set is something worth pursuing for the forum knife (well knives in this case) but some of the other ideas can be follow ups.

So what do you all feel is required in a western styled butcher knife set?

Scimitar

Boning knife

???

Dave Martell
03-13-2011, 06:09 PM
Here are a few old style butcher knife patterns, some (I believe) not made anymore.

UglyJoe
03-13-2011, 06:45 PM
Uh oh. Niloc's gonna be all over this...

cnochef
03-14-2011, 09:31 AM
You guys are really winding me up with ideas. I feeling the butcher's knife set is something worth pursuing for the forum knife (well knives in this case) but some of the other ideas can be follow ups.

So what do you all feel is required in a western styled butcher knife set?

Scimitar

Boning knife

???

Just the two, or it's gonna get out of hand (even though we're used to that).

JohnnyChance
03-14-2011, 09:19 PM
Just the two, or it's gonna get out of hand (even though we're used to that).

yeah, i thought about trying to add a third piece, like a fork or steel, but neither of those things would be worth adding $50-100 to the set. I find forks to be pretty useless, and 99% of people here would rather strop than steel their knife.

if you wanted to add something to make it a bit interesting, maybe a leather fold or roll to hold them? kinda like two sheaths that are connected and can be folded together and then tied, maybe with an additional flap to fold over the handles before closing it up. nice storage solution for home users and pros, can easily be added to a kit bag. and it is more "american" than a traditional saya.

Dave Martell
03-14-2011, 09:22 PM
Belt loop option for Colin? :)

JohnnyChance
03-14-2011, 09:36 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_ldEKzBPytxs/TX60LiOx_rI/AAAAAAAAAPA/ZPliSUXuIro/s800/sheath.jpg

kinda like this one. please ignore the over priced and poorly shaped knives.

Dave Martell
03-14-2011, 10:06 PM
Warren (Unconundrum) talked about making these years ago, wait until he see this picture.

UnConundrum
03-14-2011, 10:07 PM
Similar design, isn't it Dave ?

Dave Martell
03-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Similar design, isn't it Dave ?


Yeah isn't it though?

cnochef
03-15-2011, 09:47 AM
Steve Goodson in Texas custom makes knife rolls, maybe you could ask him

http://http://www.leather-worker.com/Chef-Knife-Roll.html (http://www.leather-worker.com/Chef-Knife-Roll.html)

Dave Martell
03-15-2011, 11:11 AM
Thanks!

ChrisBelgium
03-15-2011, 02:37 PM
I always wonder why people are so hooked on the traditional Japanese design, while you can draw a gazillion lines through 3 points and produce a gorgeous design. This was also thinking outside the box. Maybe some of you will like them, while another part of you will dislike them.. These have been posted on FF a long time ago. Yuuga is again just a working title. Want to have one made? Just ask, I'll send a 1/1 outline drawing to work with, same for the others already posted.

Let's start with an outline drawing of the gyotos;
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/yuugaGyoto.jpg

And, the sujis;
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/yuugaSujihiki.jpg

And a pimped version of gyotos and a suji below;
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/ChrisBelgium1/Design%20knives/yuugaCollectie.jpg

JohnnyChance
03-15-2011, 03:30 PM
i still think the butcher's duo is the most interesting forum knife idea, but if you wanted to eventually expand the line to gyutos and sujis, to make them unique, offer them in "half sizes". i know shige and nenox have some of them, but a lot of people cannot afford either of those, but would benefit from 225/255/285mm gyutos and sujis.

cnochef
03-15-2011, 04:56 PM
i still think the butcher's duo is the most interesting forum knife idea, but if you wanted to eventually expand the line to gyutos and sujis, to make them unique, offer them in "half sizes". i know shige and nenox have some of them, but a lot of people cannot afford either of those, but would benefit from 225/255/285mm gyutos and sujis.

Maybe it's because I'm a newbie knife nut, but I'm a little confused about what you mean by "half size" gyutos and sujis.

Do you literally mean something like 120mm or 135mm gyutos or what?

Thanks,
Lyle

Dave Martell
03-15-2011, 05:12 PM
I'm getting really excited about running with the butcher knife set idea, this is getting my creative juices flowing. :D

Why don't we focus on this and start discussing what we want from these knives?

JohnnyChance
03-15-2011, 05:59 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a newbie knife nut, but I'm a little confused about what you mean by "half size" gyutos and sujis.

Do you literally mean something like 120mm or 135mm gyutos or what?

Thanks,
Lyle

Haha no. That was my sneakerhead part of my brain talking. Half size meaning half way between the regular sizes. like in shoes 9.5, 10.5, etc would be half sizes. and for knives, the standard sizes being 210, 240, 270, and 300mm, half sizes would be 225, 255, 285mm.


I'm getting really excited about running with the butcher knife set idea, this is getting my creative juices flowing.

Why don't we focus on this and start discussing what we want from these knives?

Great! Maybe we should start a new thread so people who have given up on this one or dont want to read through 12 pages can get right to it and contribute to the butchers set idea.

Dave Martell
03-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Haha no. That was my sneakerhead part of my brain talking. Half size meaning half way between the regular sizes. like in shoes 9.5, 10.5, etc would be half sizes. and for knives, the standard sizes being 210, 240, 270, and 300mm, half sizes would be 225, 255, 285mm.



Great! Maybe we should start a new thread so people who have given up on this one or dont want to read through 12 pages can get right to it and contribute to the butchers set idea.


Good idea - I'm on it! :)

ThEoRy
03-16-2011, 01:07 AM
Hmm maybe something like a honesuke and a petty/boning knife combined. Or like a kiritsuke tip boning knife?

RobinW
03-20-2011, 10:46 AM
I realize Dave wants to focus on the butchers knives, but since i rarely have a need for these...

How about a very laser thin gyuto in Masamoto KS shape, AEB-L or another good stainless? Wa of course.

ecchef
05-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Hmm maybe something like a honesuke and a petty/boning knife combined. Or like a kiritsuke tip boning knife?

Already exists. It's called hankotsu.

MadMel
05-22-2011, 09:11 AM
Already exists. It's called hankotsu.

Maybe a hankotsu with a guard/bolster? Its kinda scary if you slip lol.