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MB73
09-07-2011, 10:38 PM
Hello everyone - I am new to kitchen knives & was looking for an inexpensive start. Was looking to buy a gyuto and a paring knife. After much reading and researching, I am very much interested in the Tojiro DP and possibly the MAC Pro. Would like a stainless knife with a sharp, long lasting edge.

I know that I would be happy with either one, but was hoping someone could help me with a couple of concerns that I have.

One being the MAC Pro MTH-80 What happens when you sharpen to the point of reaching the dimples? Or is the MBK-85 a better choice?

Two. I like the price of the Tojiro DP much better (210mm gyuto & paring knife for $100!!!!) or would I be much happier with the longer 240mm? I am just using it for preparing meals for a small family at home.

I value any opinions on these knives & thank you for your time

MB

so_sleepy
09-07-2011, 11:16 PM
The Tojiro 210 was my first gyuto. I've owned at least 10 others since then, but I still keep it around and use it regularly for quick small tasks. After gaining experience, I prefer longer knives (240-270mm) if I have more prep to do.

If you are coming from using German knives, you will find that gyutos are lighter and more nimble. It is an easy transition from an 8" Wusthof to a 240mm gyuto (~9.5 inches). I would recommend it if you have the workspace.

I don't have any experience with the Mac, bu the Tojiro should serve you well.

Eamon Burke
09-07-2011, 11:22 PM
Welcome!

I think 210 is plenty long enough for you at home, unless you like big knives.

When you sharpen down far enough to reach the cullens, you have burnt out the knife. But it would take a good long while to get there. If this was intended to be a permanent, one-time purchase, that is an issue, but at $125, it's not exactly your life savings.

The Tojiro DP is a good inexpensive knife because it is thin. It is not as well finished on the handle/spine/bolster/pins as western knives are, so it might need some tweaking. The other thing to keep in mind is that while it is stainless, VG-10 is a bit chip-prone, and the edge will take on chips if you whack it into a granite counter, drop it, find rocks in your food, run it on a diamond hone, etc. They are great knives, but if you have the money to go with anything better, it really is worth it for a home purchase. Keep in mind that no matter how much you personally value your cutlery, your knife is part of your kitchen, and you will share living space with it, ostensibly, forever.

I'd suggest the JCK Carbonext 210mm gyuto, Suisin Inox Western 210 gyuto, or the Hiromoto AS 210 gyuto. Get a parer later. You'll be surprised how much one good knife can do.

tk59
09-08-2011, 12:00 AM
I think the telling phrase in your post is the "...with a sharp, long lasting edge..." This seems to imply that you aren't comfortable sharpening. I'd buy maybe one knife and a 1-3k stone and learn to sharpen first. Half the time I gift a nice knife, the edge is destroyed within a few weeks due to any number of things from cutting the wrong things to glass cutting boards to dishwashers and ceramic plates. I'd probably go with a Fujiwara stainless as a first knife over a Tojiro for a total noob. It's less chippy.

MB73
09-08-2011, 10:45 AM
This will be my first knife - I am not coming from a German set, so it seems that the 210mm may better suit me.

I do plan on sharpening my knives, just don't wish to be constantly putting them to the stones. Thought I would also keep up with it using a ceramic rod in between sharpenings if that is a wise choice?

I will be cutting on an old butcher block board that I got from my parents, mostly trimming meats & cutting up vegetables. I don't own a dishwasher and will not be trying to be hard on the knife. I would like to buy a quality knife, that will last a long time, & not hurt the wallet to bad.

I am really not sure about the carbon steel knives. (whether or not I like the patina look or not). I guess I always thought of showing off a nice, clean, shiney blade. Although, If the pros outweigh the cons, then maybe I need to take a better look at what best suits me.

MB73
09-08-2011, 11:24 AM
Please do not think I am arguing with anyone, I REALLY REALLY appreciate every opinion you guys have. There is just so much that I am learning and I just want to make sure that I make the wisest decision I can for myself.

Do you ever feel that instead of narrowing down to a decision, you are widening your selection, and making things harder. maybe I am overthinking all of this.

tk59
09-08-2011, 01:16 PM
...Do you ever feel that instead of narrowing down to a decision, you are widening your selection, and making things harder...Why do you think we are on this forum? A lot of folks here have way more knives than we "need." I still have a long list of knives I need to try out, if not own, lol.

Anyway, if you want something that stays shiny and you can keep up with ceramic rod for a long time, I might suggest something stainless clad. Most of the high performance steels are not nearly as stain resistant as a German knife, for example. This is one line I like for the price is the Inazuma line here: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html but if I were you, I'd pay a bit more and go for and Ashi or Konosuke stainless or quite a bit more for an Ashi/Gesshin. In my opinion, it just doesn't get much better than that regardless of price.

SpikeC
09-08-2011, 01:18 PM
The best thing about a carbon knife is that as the patina develops you appear to be a more serious cook! Only noobies have shiny blades!

stevenStefano
09-08-2011, 01:49 PM
If this is your first "proper" J-knife, I'd stay away from carbon. I've used the Tojiro DP before and I like them a lot, nothing flashy, slightly blocky handles but they are quite nice in terms of profile and geometry. I wouldn't say you are overthinking. There are hundreds of knives out there and everyone likes different ones for different reasons, there are no right or wrong choices, just those that are right or wrong for you. The more you buy the more you realise what you like and therefore you further and further hone your collection

Eamon Burke
09-08-2011, 03:23 PM
Narrowed down: Suisin Inox Western.

MB73
09-08-2011, 11:35 PM
Got a chance to look at a few of these knives suggested: I could not find much information on the Suisin Inox Western. Specs and whatnot. When someone commented on it as being "flexible", what are they saying? When I hear flexible, I think of something like a fillet knife. I do like the looks of the knife though. It does have my interest, but would like to know & see some more on it.

The JCK Inazuma line: Not sure if I would like the wa handle, but when I scrolled down to the "Gekko" line, WOW! That is a beautiful knife. Really like the look of the mahogany handle. How do you guys feel about that steel though? It seems as though some people don't really care for VG10.

I did also like the Ashi Hamono/Gesshin Ginga stainless western gyuto 210mm but they have been out of stock and I'm not sure that I quite wanted to go that high in price, same with the Konosuke (all I saw were wa handles in this also)

Still have the Tojiro in my head (budget minded I guess) & it sounds like a lot of people have used these knives and liked them for what they are. And the MAC MTH-80?

Thanks so much for your opinions and again for understanding what I'm going through. I very much appreciate everything you guys do for us "noobies"

Eamon Burke
09-09-2011, 12:20 AM
Yes, by "flexible" they do mean like a fillet knife, but not nearly as severe. It's not like it's flopping around or anything, just not as stiff(this is a minor difference compared to the jump from any gyuto to a fillet knife).

The Tojiro is cheap, it was my first, but there are things about it that I would change. I thought when I bought it that it was carbon-cored and stainless clad, which it is decidedly not, the balance is too handle heavy, it took work to get it comfortable, and it's chippy and the edge doesn't last THAT long and can be tough to deburr. You get what you pay for!

NO ChoP!
09-10-2011, 03:44 PM
Inazuma and Gekko are lookers that perform reasonably well.

I second the Fujiwara over Tojiro. I own a Tojiro Pro and love it, but as far as bang for the buck, Fujiwara is tough to beat.

I am the rare dying breed MAC fan left 'round these parts. That would be my choice for a first knife. Its razor sharp OOTB, F&F is always top notch, and it responds really well to ceramic rods; literally a few light, consistent strokes keeps it screaming.

MB73
09-10-2011, 10:10 PM
I just did some reading on the MAC Pro and became very interested. That, and the Masamoto VG jumped up pretty high on my list. What is there not to like about these knives?

tk59
09-11-2011, 02:34 AM
MAC used to have a couple of different steels. The higher grade had better wear-resistance and hardness. Now they use just the lower end steel which is solid but on the soft side. They are quite stainless, good cutters and come with good fit and finish. They are very similar to the Fujiwaras only more expensive and have more name recognition (a couple of high profile chef endorsements). I don't have experience with the Masamoto but from the specs, it is also very similar and has the name recognition (prob most famous producer of traditional Japanese cutlery: not what you're buying), endorsed by ATK but they couldn't have tested the dozens of options available. The bottom line is, I don't believe you will notice a difference in the quality of the Fujiwara vs the other two (or the Tojiro for that matter). They aren't bad knives. They are argueably the best of the more mainstream knives.

You know, you should think about Masahiro at Knife Merchant. I still use mine. Masahiro makes several lines that are very similar on paper. I like that one the best. I haven't seen it anywhere else.

bieniek
09-11-2011, 09:13 AM
Yes, and there is a clad Masahiro MC available. It develops patina on core very easily, cuts very well and is thin. Also costs peanuts.
The FF is dramatic and you could bend it so the tip of blade meets handle but for that money its great.

MB, the more you read and know, the more noob you will feel. Its all about personal preference, the cutlery. Go cheap for the start, and if the world wont end december next year, get something better.