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Chef Niloc
09-09-2011, 10:28 AM
I'll bet you have answered this question before but I don't see it posted here?
Do you use power tools like a router and sander to make your saya or hand tools chisel and plane? If you you both how do you use them (I.E. Power to shape and form, hand to finish)?
Side question have you ever tried and succeeded at making one out of Burl? If so how did you keep the "pull out" under control.

Lefty
09-09-2011, 10:55 AM
I'll answer the start of this, because I used to hassle Marko all the time about tools. For sayas, he uses Japanese woodworking chisels, because there is more control, and you can give it a more "natural feel".
I'll let him handle the Burl question.
I'd guess, if you had the right piece of Burl, you could pull it off. I've seen some pretty tight work in a set of
Burls bowls that wouldn't be too far off from a saya, minus the glued together pieces.
Just thinking out loud, here....

Chef Niloc
09-09-2011, 11:01 AM
I'll answer the start of this, because I used to hassle Marko all the time about tools. For sayas, he uses Japanese woodworking chisels, because there is more control, and you can give it a more "natural feel".
I'll let him handle the Burl question.
I'd guess, if you had the right piece of Burl, you could pull it off. I've seen some pretty tight work in a set of
Burls bowls that wouldn't be too far off from a saya, minus the glued together pieces.
Just thinking out loud, here....

No router just chisels, wow he must love to make life hard? I wood:D think a router wood:D get the jod done in 1/2 the time.

Marko Tsourkan
09-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I use the following hand and power tools for making sayas:

Band saw for splitting wood, cutting out a profile ( I do it after glue-up)
6x48" sander for rough flattening, rough-sanding, distal taper forming
Granite plate for precise flattening
Saya chisels for carving
Drill press for pin hole drilling
Bessey clamps for gluing
TD-90 for grinding to shape and rough finishing
Final hand-sanding and oil/shellac finishing

The Process
I typically let re-sawn wood sit for a couple of days, to release tension, then flat-sand glue-up sides, carve a cavity on one side, glue the halves together, profile, form a distal taper and bevels, and then shape it. Some woods I finish with tung oil and shellac and some with natural oil/wax blend.

M

PS: with sharp chisels, you have a better control and a better result. As Devin and Mario can attest, I can carve a cavity in 10-30 min on most woods. Some woods like burls are trickier, but sharp chisels will do. You might have some tear-our, but not too much, as long as you are "shaving" the surface with chisels, and removing a little material at a time. It's important to carve with the grain, though sometimes the grain on burls is all over the place and sometimes I carve against the grain to get a better grain figure on the saya.

Router would be faster, but you won't be able to remove the material to mirror the blade geometry for a tight fit. I made a few sayas from walnut burls and even red wood burl. Didn't hear any complains about twists or shrinkage. On a red wood saya I ground tip area too thin, so it chipped off on a burl figure, so it is for a re-make. Red wood is pretty brittle and have to be left a little thicker.

SpikeC
09-09-2011, 01:01 PM
The key is a chisel that is SHARP, not just sharp.

SpikeC
09-09-2011, 01:04 PM
The problem with using an electric router to make the recess for the knife blade is that the recess needs to be tapered in depth to match the grind of the knife. A power router can't do that. If all you want is a big honkin' hole, go with the power tool!

Marko Tsourkan
09-09-2011, 01:45 PM
The problem with using an electric router to make the recess for the knife blade is that the recess needs to be tapered in depth to match the grind of the knife. A power router can't do that. If all you want is a big honkin' hole, go with the power tool!

Exactly.

M

Chef Niloc
09-09-2011, 03:18 PM
Cool thanks
Love it that good old hand tools can still out perform the power tools.

SpikeC
09-09-2011, 04:26 PM
For most small projects setting up the power tools takes me longer than just doing them with hand tools.

Marko Tsourkan
09-09-2011, 05:57 PM
Cool thanks
Love it that good old hand tools can still out perform the power tools.

Collin,
if you want to make a trip to Westchester, I will be happy to show you how I make a saya from start to finish.

M

Chef Niloc
09-10-2011, 03:14 AM
Collin,
if you want to make a trip to Westchester, I will be happy to show you how I make a saya from start to finish.

M
Wow how's that for a invitation, westchester closer then a trip to Dave's, but let me guess Saturday the only day that's good for you?

Marko Tsourkan
09-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Weekend is fine. PM me and we'll work out a schedule. And bring a few knives along. :)

M

Chef Niloc
09-10-2011, 10:36 AM
Any day. PM me and we worked out a schedule. And bring a few knives along. :)
M
Agggggkkggh always the catch :angel2:let me guess, a few Burkes, a Kramer or two, sound about rightn:biggrin::D maybe I should bring some old vintage tools too??? Like a old 1879 Walker Bros Wood Turning Lathe, right?

Marko Tsourkan
09-10-2011, 10:04 PM
You will have a hard time moving heavy machinery into my basement shop. My Bridgeport was a huge PITA to move in. I am considering taking over 2nd floor of the building (if I only can figure how to pay for it!), so I can get in some equipment that I can't get into the basement. I could use a metal lathe, a cabinetmaker table saw, a wide-belt sander among others. This is a wish-list, hehe, these machines cost thousands of dollars, but I can't help it - I have a soft spot for American-made vintage equipment - the heavier, the better.

Yes, Collin, bring knives you think are the best performers. :)

BTW, Walker Turner is a brand that needs to be taken very seriously. These machines are practically indestructible, even with little or no maintenance. I just got my hands on 1953 WT drill press. You will that beauty when you come over.

M

Mike
11-04-2011, 10:54 AM
The problem with using an electric router to make the recess for the knife blade is that the recess needs to be tapered in depth to match the grind of the knife. A power router can't do that. If all you want is a big honkin' hole, go with the power tool!

Its not impossible, nor is it difficult. If you use a tapering jig it is quite doable, though building the jig takes some patience and practice to get it just right. The great thing is that once you've set it up, it shaves a load of time off of your projects. If you haven't seen a tapering jig before, its is basically the same as a router planing jig (which I use for burls or pieces too small to feed safely into my planer) with an incline.