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G-rat
09-21-2011, 04:39 PM
So it came in the mail! My first gyuto and its a beaut. Koki did a nice job making sure I got one with a nicely rounded spine and choil. Its not perfect like on my buddy's Konosuke but it the nicest finish I've bought on a spine or choil. As you can see it has the large cosmetic secondary bevel. It is interesting because the hamon line bleeds into this cosmetic finish and disappears underneath the cladding. It is certainly cosmetic but it also begins exactly where the knife begins to taper down to its incredibly thin edge. It looks like the grind was convexed from the shop. When I received it there wasn't really much of an edge on the knife. It was super thin and would cut but I wouldn't call it sharp. Here's where I got giddy.

So I am bad with uploading photos. I will just give you the link to my public mobileme gallery. You can check it out there.

http://gallery.me.com/sllathan#100086

I decided to take the knife to the stones and put a new edge on it. This steel is TOUGH! I mean really tough. I am used to Aogami Super that sharpens up super easily. I can create a burr on any of my moritakas in what feels like a blink of an eye. Not so with this knife. It took 15 minutes of sharpening on my naniwa 400 to begin to run a burr the length of the knife and about 5 minutes more once it finally started to take one. The steel just feels immensely sturdy and like it would hold the edge you put on it for a long long time. I guess time will tell at the kitchen I work at. I finished sharpening and polishing the new edge up to my 5k Naniwa superstone and finishing with a strop on felt and chromium oxide. As you can tell by the scratches I am not the most skilled but I can put a nice edge on a knife at least I think so! When I was done I put a microbevel on the edge and started shaving a sweet potato on the board. Sure it wedges a little but that's cause its got a thick spine and the knife does a lot of the cutting obviously especially at the heel.
Another thing that is awesome is the hamon is far enough back on the blade that there are a good 8-10 flattenings I can get out of this knife before it starts to wear into the cladding. My Moritakas hamons come almost to the edge of the blade making the core steel in them less available for extended years of flattening and resharpening.

This is my first gyuto and I am super impressed.


Here's what is dissapointing.
You can see on the top of the ferrule whoever fixed the tang in the handle used some sort of epoxy or something to seal it off airtight around the tang and ended up letting a lot of the goop dry on the top of the horn. Kinda looks gross, But then again soon enough this thing is gonna have all sorts of dead animals all over it anyway. I wasn't looking for a drawer queen I wanted a bulldozer that would dish out a beating and be able to take one.

Only other thing is that the handle kind of blows but after sharpening this knife I know I paid for amazing quality steel and not a nice handle.

Let me know if the pics don't work. It was just easier to post them there than to set up an account with some picture hosting website. I'm in the middle of a couple heavy assignments for grad school.

Also sorry the pics suck I just used my iPhone and its camera with my crappy skills makes for poo poo pictures.

G-rat
09-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Last thing is that the geometry is wonderful. In a pinch grip it feels like an extension of my arm. I like a blade heavy knife and my moritaka cleaver which I sometimes use for 4 or 5 hours at a time is probably time and a half the weight if not twice the weight so I was surprised at how light this knife feels in the hand. Very nimble and very comfortable. Obviously it could be more nimble with a little more distal taper towards the tip so that the tip was pointier and skinnier but I like it the way it is.

Citizen Snips
09-21-2011, 05:24 PM
First of all, Congratulations buddy!!!

you are really gonna love this knife. i like that you took the time to get a knife that is exactly what you wanted. cant wait to get my hands on it :D

anyway, if you really do not like the handle, im sure you could ask around here for a new one (ahem marko) and ship it off. i personally do not like "D" shaped handles and think they are uncomfortable but really its all up to the personal preference of the user as its going to be in their hands for countless hours, not mine.

please keep us posted on how this works out for you after a few weeks of shifts and sharpening sessions.

stevenStefano
09-21-2011, 06:05 PM
I love how all the photos are from in your car. Couldn't wait till you got it home eh? :biggrin:The Mizuno isn't super common but it seems to be highly regarded by some members here, glad you like it

G-rat
09-21-2011, 06:08 PM
I love how all the photos are from in your car. Couldn't wait till you got it home eh? :biggrin:The Mizuno isn't super common but it seems to be highly regarded by some members here, glad you like it

haha yeah citizensnips was joking with me about that today when I txted him about the knife. I was trying to shave my arm with it at 9:30am in my car outside the post office while smoking a cigarette...the looks I got were awesome.

EdipisReks
09-21-2011, 09:14 PM
i really like mine, especially once i got rid of the stock handle. i don't really find the steel to be hard to work on; sharpens up quickly and nicely, just like all the other carbon knives i have. good geometry, especially at the tip, and thin behind the edge. doesn't corrode particularly readily. really nice knife. these don't have a hamon, which is caused by differential hardening, what you are referring to is where the higane (core steel) is exposed past the jigane (cladding).

tk59
09-21-2011, 11:19 PM
I need to try one of these! I've been meaning to ever since I saw UglyJoe's (I think.) review.

joex175
09-21-2011, 11:33 PM
may I just ask , not sure if you mentioned in the post and I just dont see , is this the Hontanren series mizuno ?

I have been thinking of purchasing one for seemingly forever , or a masamoto KS , it takes forever for me to decide on these things :(


it really looks like a nice knife , cant wait to hear a review after some usage

G-rat
09-22-2011, 12:11 AM
may I just ask , not sure if you mentioned in the post and I just dont see , is this the Hontanren series mizuno ?

I have been thinking of purchasing one for seemingly forever , or a masamoto KS , it takes forever for me to decide on these things :(


it really looks like a nice knife , cant wait to hear a review after some usage

Yep its the hontanren.

It is a nice knife. I'll be using it all weekend. It will be interesting for me to see how the edge I put on the blade holds up. I'm so used to sharpening a straight edge on my cleaver or my bosses' nakiri that it is really difficult for me to get the curve of the blade sharpened correctly (or if you want to be picky you can tell from my freshly sharpened picture that I have trouble with the whole process.). My petties have a curve but are much smaller and weigh less and are easy to manage. All this to say my review will be colored by whatever kind of edge I put on it. It is nice and even but as I cut things with it tonight the edge just doesn't quite feel right. I mean it basically flies through stuff and cuts evenly and swiftly through stuff but on a slightly under ripe tomato it was squishing when I push cut just a little. Guess I just need to keep working on the edge and perhaps thin behind the edge a little?

UglyJoe
09-22-2011, 12:36 AM
I noticed this a little bit with mine as well when I first got it. It is my opinion (hotly debated by others here) that the shinogi on this knife is NOT cosmetic. In fact, I use it as a guide for sharpening. The angle difference between the blade road and the thick of the blade is very, very small, so if you try to sharpen it like you would say a yanagi, it's almost guaranteed you will "break" the shinogi line, and the knife won't be as pretty... particularly if you work with a lot of mud on your stone. This doesn't bother me. I sharpen mine by putting pressure just on the edge of the knife but having the knife flat on the stone at the edge, so that the scratch marks hit almost all of the hagane (the hard core steel that makes up the edge). I then lay the knife flat on the stone and put pressure right below the "shinogi" line on the opposite side of the blade (the side your fingers are actually touching). This, for me, would abrade metal from the shinogi down to the bevel that I hit in first step. Then with a gentle rolling motion I blend both bevels together. This makes it look like one bevel from the shinogi down to the edge. It also gives the knife a very thin edge with a nice convexness to it that makes it a superior cutter. Finally I put a microbevel at 35-40* on the outside face of the knife only, and call it done. It's a long process, but I've found that I only have to touch up the microbevel, usually on a strop but every once in a while on my finishing stone, to bring the edge back to screaming life. I only have to go through the whole sharpening process maybe once every 6 months, if that (home user, so I'm sure more often for a pro). I think this is the way the knife was designed to be sharpened. One hint is that everyone I've known to get one (including myself) has commented on their being basically no edge bevel (like we see on most gyutos OOTB, even if the edge itself isn't great), but that the knife still cut well OOTB. I think this is because the knife was initially sharpened the way I described, with the edge bevel blended back up into the secondary bevel of the knife so that you don't really see it, with a tiny microbevel, if they bothered with a microbevel at all. I wish I had the opportunity to see another one OOTB to see if my suspicions are correct.

Anyway, sharpened this way the knife flies through almost everything - it's still a thick knife at the spine and so it will wedge in tall, hard produce a little regardless of what kind of sharpening you put it through, unless you thin the knife from spine to edge which is basically changing the knife completely.

memorael
09-22-2011, 01:25 AM
Congrats on the new knife. One question though, how do you know the steel is tougher? reason I am asking is that I've had cases when the first sharpening job takes longer than usual and then after that one it all kinda compensates. I think its because some of these knives come with a not so great edge and some thinning happens on the first sharpening job.

memorael
09-22-2011, 01:30 AM
I need to try one of these! I've been meaning to ever since I saw UglyJoe's (I think.) review.

So this knife got you all knife horny??? I think this one and a Carter are on my to do list LOL.

Salty dog
09-22-2011, 08:08 AM
Just for the helluv-it I have a stainless 270 wa coming.

G-rat
09-22-2011, 08:16 AM
I noticed this a little bit with mine as well when I first got it. It is my opinion (hotly debated by others here) that the shinogi on this knife is NOT cosmetic. In fact, I use it as a guide for sharpening. The angle difference between the blade road and the thick of the blade is very, very small, so if you try to sharpen it like you would say a yanagi, it's almost guaranteed you will "break" the shinogi line, and the knife won't be as pretty... particularly if you work with a lot of mud on your stone. This doesn't bother me. I sharpen mine by putting pressure just on the edge of the knife but having the knife flat on the stone at the edge, so that the scratch marks hit almost all of the hagane (the hard core steel that makes up the edge). I then lay the knife flat on the stone and put pressure right below the "shinogi" line on the opposite side of the blade (the side your fingers are actually touching). This, for me, would abrade metal from the shinogi down to the bevel that I hit in first step. Then with a gentle rolling motion I blend both bevels together. This makes it look like one bevel from the shinogi down to the edge. It also gives the knife a very thin edge with a nice convexness to it that makes it a superior cutter. Finally I put a microbevel at 35-40* on the outside face of the knife only, and call it done. It's a long process, but I've found that I only have to touch up the microbevel, usually on a strop but every once in a while on my finishing stone, to bring the edge back to screaming life. I only have to go through the whole sharpening process maybe once every 6 months, if that (home user, so I'm sure more often for a pro). I think this is the way the knife was designed to be sharpened. One hint is that everyone I've known to get one (including myself) has commented on their being basically no edge bevel (like we see on most gyutos OOTB, even if the edge itself isn't great), but that the knife still cut well OOTB. I think this is because the knife was initially sharpened the way I described, with the edge bevel blended back up into the secondary bevel of the knife so that you don't really see it, with a tiny microbevel, if they bothered with a microbevel at all. I wish I had the opportunity to see another one OOTB to see if my suspicions are correct.

Anyway, sharpened this way the knife flies through almost everything - it's still a thick knife at the spine and so it will wedge in tall, hard produce a little regardless of what kind of sharpening you put it through, unless you thin the knife from spine to edge which is basically changing the knife completely.

Uglyjoe

I assume you do this on both sides of tge knife? Also are you holding the knife flat against the stone the entire time and just changing where your fingers are applying pressure to the knife? Or are you starting out kind of flat and then getting flatter? I think you are right about the shinogi. The knife currently does not feel correctly sharpened to me. Something seems off. I just simply put a bevel on it at around 12 degrees. It cuts really well but still feels like it gets hung up on stuff and a tomato just slightly squished with it.

UglyJoe
09-22-2011, 09:06 AM
Uglyjoe

I assume you do this on both sides of tge knife? Also are you holding the knife flat against the stone the entire time and just changing where your fingers are applying pressure to the knife? Or are you starting out kind of flat and then getting flatter? I think you are right about the shinogi. The knife currently does not feel correctly sharpened to me. Something seems off. I just simply put a bevel on it at around 12 degrees. It cuts really well but still feels like it gets hung up on stuff and a tomato just slightly squished with it.

Watch Jon at JKI's videos on single bevel sharpening and basically do what he does on the blade road side of a single bevel knife, but do it on both sides of the Miz. At least, that's basically what I do. Again, this will ugly the knife a little bit, unless you are far better than me, which you might be - I am not a paragon of sharpening. The knife lays almost flat on the stone... but because that bevel is slightly convex already what you will find is if you put pressure right behind the edge the spine will raise up just a bare fraction higher than if you put pressure behind the shinogi line. You want to maintain those angles. Kind of like what Jon does in that video. Lay the knife flat on it's secondary bevel, then ever, ever, ever so slightly raise the spine just a little bit and you should be hitting just that edge bevel. Be warned though - if you try this, depending on how much metal you've already removed when cutting in a new bevel, you might be looking at a lot of work. You are basically going to be removing the edge bevel that you just put into the knife with your first sharpening, and that can be a pain (I had to the first time I sharpened the knife this way as well; my previous edge bevel was much like yours now and I wasn't really pleased with the knife's performance).

G-rat
09-22-2011, 10:21 AM
Watch Jon at JKI's videos on single bevel sharpening and basically do what he does on the blade road side of a single bevel knife, but do it on both sides of the Miz. At least, that's basically what I do. Again, this will ugly the knife a little bit, unless you are far better than me, which you might be - I am not a paragon of sharpening. The knife lays almost flat on the stone... but because that bevel is slightly convex already what you will find is if you put pressure right behind the edge the spine will raise up just a bare fraction higher than if you put pressure behind the shinogi line. You want to maintain those angles. Kind of like what Jon does in that video. Lay the knife flat on it's secondary bevel, then ever, ever, ever so slightly raise the spine just a little bit and you should be hitting just that edge bevel. Be warned though - if you try this, depending on how much metal you've already removed when cutting in a new bevel, you might be looking at a lot of work. You are basically going to be removing the edge bevel that you just put into the knife with your first sharpening, and that can be a pain (I had to the first time I sharpened the knife this way as well; my previous edge bevel was much like yours now and I wasn't really pleased with the knife's performance).

Thanks that makes complete sense. Yeah I've for my work cut out for me. I just convexed my Moritaka cleaver so to some degree I am used to what you are talking about here. Guess I know what in doing tonight.

EdipisReks
09-22-2011, 01:12 PM
Just for the helluv-it I have a stainless 270 wa coming.

i'm really interested in knowing your opinion of that knife, once you get it.

G-rat
09-22-2011, 09:04 PM
Ok...uglyjoes method is spot on. Sharpened the top of tge "shinogi". Then sharpened to tge edge . Then convexed to blend. Then polished underneath the shinogi to the edge at 5000. Then polished the blended section by convexing at 5000 grit. Then 35 deg micro on 5000. Cut carrots like nothing was there. Thanks uglyjoe. The cuts felt right. Where previously they didn't.

G-rat
09-22-2011, 09:09 PM
Congrats on the new knife. One question though, how do you know the steel is tougher? reason I am asking is that I've had cases when the first sharpening job takes longer than usual and then after that one it all kinda compensates. I think its because some of these knives come with a not so great edge and some thinning happens on the first sharpening job.

I think you are right. Sharpening new bevels that work against the geometry are probably harder to cut

UglyJoe
09-22-2011, 11:10 PM
Ok...uglyjoes method is spot on. Sharpened the top of tge "shinogi". Then sharpened to tge edge . Then convexed to blend. Then polished underneath the shinogi to the edge at 5000. Then polished the blended section by convexing at 5000 grit. Then 35 deg micro on 5000. Cut carrots like nothing was there. Thanks uglyjoe. The cuts felt right. Where previously they didn't.

Glad to hear it worked well for you. I felt the exact same. Something was missing before, and afterwards the knife felt at peace... Wow, that's the lamest thing I've ever written on a message board before...

EDIT: If you don't mind me asking, how clean were you able to keep the shinogi line? I could keep it very clean near the heel, but towards the tip the transition from the secondary bevel to the thick of the blade is so small that sharpening rounded over that distinct line very quickly for me...

G-rat
09-22-2011, 11:22 PM
Glad to hear it worked well for you. I felt the exact same. Something was missing before, and afterwards the knife felt at peace... Wow, that's the lamest thing I've ever written on a message board before...

EDIT: If you don't mind me asking, how clean were you able to keep the shinogi line? I could keep it very clean near the heel, but towards the tip the transition from the secondary bevel to the thick of the blade is so small that sharpening rounded over that distinct line very quickly for me...

I'll post some really embarrassing photos when I get home man

G-rat
09-23-2011, 01:22 AM
Ok so it might look crappy but it cuts like a dream...

http://gallery.me.com/sllathan#100086/IMG_4726&bgcolor=black
http://gallery.me.com/sllathan#100086/IMG_4725&bgcolor=black
http://gallery.me.com/sllathan#100086/IMG_4723&bgcolor=black

You cant see the mirror finish but its there at the edge...wish I was a better photographer

G-rat
09-23-2011, 01:49 AM
Ok one more time...

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z306/GratSara/IMG_4725.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z306/GratSara/IMG_4723.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z306/GratSara/IMG_4726.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z306/GratSara/IMG_4722.jpg

Its awful...

memorael
09-23-2011, 02:35 AM
damn... I know the feeling bro, remember its meant to be used not looked at.

G-rat
09-23-2011, 09:01 AM
Right right. Yeah I mean holding the knife Basically flat on the stone I guess it's unavoidable to some extent. I also was in sort if a rush when polishing cuz I had a meeting but whatever. It cuts stuff like it's not even there. And I'm sure this knife could get way sharper too.

Citizen Snips
09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
remember you can always polish more with a 10k or something. i think there is one up for sale here.

i like the attitude. i did the same thing with my HD when i got it. i dont think it went 3 shifts before i started thinning and the only reason i waited was to give an initial edge quality and profile description and review to everyone here. you should see what it looks like now (only on one side tho)

UglyJoe
09-23-2011, 11:47 AM
G-Rat, I wouldn't worry about that at all. Mine was similar, though I kept it a little cleaner - I have some experience with single bevel knives, so I can get a pretty good polish. Plus, I spent quite a bit of time flattening the secondary bevel which is basically a necessity for getting a good finish off of stones. You could actually polish it up with sandpaper or micromesh and not have to worry so much about flattening the bevel. Just looking at it, I would say that you need a better grit progression to get a better looking polish - I can still see a lot of heavier marks from lower grit stones in their. I once polished mine up to a kasumi natural stone finish. If you ever want to play around with getting a cool finish this knife is a good one to work on. But to be perfectly honest, the iron cladding on this knife patinas extremely fast and get's quite dark (at least in my experience) and makes spending a lot of time on the polish not worth it, IMO. Whenever I sharpen the knife now I just polish up to my 6k King and just try to have a basically even scratch pattern, and the patina will cover the rest up - it's a waste of time to try and bring out the contrast of the jigane/hagane on this knife IMO. I usually only hit the edge bevel and microbevel with my natural finisher, and don't bother hitting the secondary bevel at all at that high of a grit.

I'd like to hear what your experience is about the reactivity of this knife. I find that the knife patinas very fast, but that the food I cut with it tends to not suffer any ill effects from the reactivity of the knife. Now I'm not a pro, so I'm not cutting things that need to stay clean and fresh with no browning for a full service, but I do make a lot of dips and salsas in batches where I leave - for instance - my onion dice sitting out for a time while I prep all of the other ingredients. I've never experienced any browning or off odors or anything with this knife, even with a completely fresh polish and all patina removed. Okay, that's not exactly true. I got an awful stink from a vinegar/mustard combo that I used to force a patina early on, but that actually set on the knife for an extended time and you expect to get funky colors and stank when forcing a patina.

Seb
09-23-2011, 10:38 PM
I had a similar issue when I thinned and mirror-polished my White#2 Sakai Yusuke and then shortly after decided the mirror was too 'sticky' - so I decide to instal some scratches with my Chocera #400:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/aurochs_2006/ThinnedYuke003.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/aurochs_2006/ThinnedYuke001.jpg

EdipisReks
09-23-2011, 10:48 PM
I had a similar issue when I thinned and mirror-polished my White#2 Sakai Yusuke and then shortly after decided the mirror was too 'sticky' - so I decide to instal some scratches with my Chocera #400:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/aurochs_2006/ThinnedYuke003.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/aurochs_2006/ThinnedYuke001.jpg

that looks pretty nice, for a 400. how long did you spend on that?

Salty dog
09-23-2011, 10:58 PM
Blasphemy

Marko Tsourkan
09-23-2011, 11:39 PM
You can always refinish your knife with silicon carbide automotive sandpaper. It takes a little more elbow grease on monosteel knives than clad knives (most cladding on carbon knives is soft), but totally doable. Start with 220grit and take the finish as high as you like. Normally 600-800 gives you a nice satin finish. Removing a handle on a wa gyuto would be advisable, so you have clean scratch pattern.

M

EdipisReks
09-23-2011, 11:49 PM
You can always refinish your knife with silicon carbide automotive sandpaper. It takes a little more elbow grease on monosteel knives than clad knives (most cladding on carbon knives is soft), but totally doable. Start with 220grit and take the finish as high as you like. Normally 600-800 gives you a nice satin finish. Removing a handle on a wa gyuto would be advisable, so you have clean scratch pattern.

M

yep. i've found that foaming hand soap is a great lubricant for this. i use method "sweet water," but i bet other scents would work nearly as well. ;)

Marko Tsourkan
09-24-2011, 12:01 AM
Some folks use WD-40 as a lubricant, but I am don't like the smell of it, so I stick with water or Windex.

EdipisReks
09-24-2011, 12:03 AM
Some folks use WD-40 as a lubricant, but I am don't like the smell of it, so I stick with water or Windex.

i've used all three of those. the foaming hand soap honestly gave me the best results, and it easily washes out of the sandpaper (i use automotive and micro-mesh).

Seb
09-24-2011, 02:21 AM
that looks pretty nice, for a 400. how long did you spend on that?

Thanks!

The #400-grit scratches? No time at all - about a minute. It's just a superficial layer to break up that sticky mirror-polish. I also experimented with a Suehiro Rika but found I preferred the Chocera #400.

EdipisReks
09-25-2011, 10:52 PM
must be my shaky hands, because i bet mine would look like crap after breaking up a mirror polish with a stone that coarse. :)

Seb
09-25-2011, 11:15 PM
Cheers! One reason I preferred the Chocera 400 over the Rika was that the coarser scratches seemed more forgiving.

memorael
09-27-2011, 02:11 AM
Blasphemy

LOLZ

tk59
09-27-2011, 02:22 AM
i've been refinishing blades on my cheap belt grinder. it really takes no time at all to get a like-new finish.

G-rat
10-04-2011, 04:17 PM
SO just wanted to report back in and I'll post some pics later tonight when i get home.

This knife is has wonderful edge retention; the steel is incredibly tough. Now know that my current standards for sharpness and edge retention are with aogami super from moritaka. These were my main knives. My cleaver seemed to hold its ground for at least two sessions of the stone, then drop to 75% and stay there for a while, eventually degrading to 50% after about two weeks of relatively intense use. My moritaka petty in super which actually probably has seen more work as an all around knife in the last 6months than the cleaver would hold at about 85% and stay there for a month of pretty regular use. Obviously there is more weight behind the edge of the cleaver than behind the petty and so that might have something to do with it. Regardless this mizuno outdoes them both. It lost perhaps 10% of its initial sharpness after the 6th session off the stones. Then I left town to cook for an event across the country and it stayed there through an intense weekend with lots of squash and pears and apples, you know harder stuff on an edge (whole bushel of pears and apples, 70lbs of brussels, 30lbs butternut squash, 20lbs japanese eggplant and so on and so forth). It will still shave my arm but it needs some work...it has dropped down to like 70% sharpness (know these are all relative gauges they aren't scientific just impressions. Love this knife. Edge retention is really important to me because I work about 30 hours a week, am in grad school and don't have much evening time to spend sharpening knives because I want to hang out with my wife who I get to see like every other day. This knife is not only a beast in terms of size, weight (although it isn't heavy...just not a laser which leaves my hands tired from using more force at least in my experience) but it also holds a serious edge. This could change over time as I sharpen it but so far so good. Its next session on the stones is set for tomorrow. One thing that has bothered me has been the fact that slight rust collects where the tang goes into the ferrule. I try to be diligent with wipe downs by hitting that part of the knife each time...but anything you guys do other than epoxy to deal with this sort of thing?

G-rat
10-04-2011, 04:35 PM
Last thing. As far as reactivity goes it has been mild. The pears and apples were the worst for the knife with just a slight patina. The patina is building but I haven thad much bloody meat or time to do Darkhoek's method. If I cut with the heel of the knife to split the pears and apples and then used the tip to cut those in half and then came back to the heel it would leave black pear juice on the pear...didn't matter cuz they were going into a lemon water bath so as not to oxidize but nonetheless this was as bad as it got and it happened in less than 2 seconds. I assume that once I get a better patina on this bad boy it won't be an issue.