View Full Version : A Kicj in the Teeth

09-21-2011, 07:14 PM
I have been in my new shop for about 14 months now. During that time I have spent a lot of money and time making the space livable and workable. I installed a propane heater when the landlord didn't provide heat, altered the electrical to work with my machines, added a wall to keep the cold drafts out during the winter, installed a HVAC system to work with the propane heater, installed new dust collection and generally made the space mine. Today that changed.

A flea market rents a large space adjacent to my shop. They aren't very good neighbors but they didn't bother me staying to themselves during the weekends and were not around much during the week. Now they are moving. I was told it was because their business had fallen off to the point they weren't making any money. The realtor showed the space yesterday and today I got the news a new tenant was going to take the flea market space as well as the 2nd floor. The total space will be in excess of 100,000 sq ft.

This afternoon the realtor paid me a visit to tell me the news. One catch, the new tenant needs a loading dock and the dock in the space is unusable. That leaves the two I have in my space. So, I have 30 days to vacate so the new tenant can have my loading docks and my space. (The new tenant will be paying 13 times more rent that I pay which explains why I am being forced out.)

They do have another building available with 5000 sq ft. and I am supposed to look at it tomorrow. I have been told they will make rental concessions to offset the cost of moving but I really wonder what they will be.

If I do move, it will take most of the month of October to complete the move and get the shop ready to work out of. If I move a notice will be placed on the web site.

09-21-2011, 07:20 PM
That is horrible news David. I hope you find a space suitable to your needs and they can compensate you for the trouble.

09-21-2011, 07:29 PM
Major Suckage in now on dooty.

09-21-2011, 09:04 PM
What are the terms & provisions of your lease? Check that fine print!

09-21-2011, 09:28 PM

Have/did you received any kind of credit from your current landlord for the improvements you made to the property? I'm assuming you received approval and paid for them all out of pocket. If they intend to keep them, I would recommend negotiating some kind of offset for this last month rent. Or, hopefully you can take out all that equipment and leave the premises as is. Since he's going to get 13 times more rent, I think he would be willing to accomodate your demands to get the new tenant in.

+1 to checking the fine print. Nonetheles, even if you're on a month to month, the landlord should only be able to evict you pursuant to the terms and conditions in that agreement, including giving you appropriate notice, which this does not sound like it is.

l r harner
09-21-2011, 09:41 PM
that is a big kick and right in the middle of you needeing to get the most work out of the shop (i would also show that this is prime time for you and your loss will be steep)

hope all goes well and on the other side i know you are a go getter and will make it work no matter what stands in your way
heres to you havign it the easy way and not the hard

Eamon Burke
09-21-2011, 09:44 PM
That is seriously crap luck. What a shame.

Sorry to hear that, Mr. Smith.

Eamon Burke
09-21-2011, 09:45 PM
Maybe find a better landlord.

09-21-2011, 09:49 PM
The rental is month-to-month and I have read the agreement which allows for 30 days notice. I expect I will have to be out by 10/31/11 so I will have the entire month of October to move and set up a new shop.

As for improvements, the only thing that is actually attached to the property is the electrical which was installed with their full knowledge and was inspected by the city inspections dept. The HVAC isn't attached to the building so I will take it and the wall I added which is only wedged into place to stop the drafts from around the other two roll-up doors.

I assume the allowances for having to move me will be enough to offset the expenses I will incur. I have a list of what I expect the expenses to be and I will negotiate the best I can. From what I understand all that is needed from the space I occupy are the two loading docks and nothing else. We'll see just how much they are willing to give up to get these for the new tenant without a fight from me. I'm PISSED!

09-21-2011, 10:14 PM
Damn. It's just one thing after another, isn't it? Can't a guy catch a break? Sorry to see that, David.

Dave Martell
09-22-2011, 01:44 AM
That just flat out sucks ass. Give 'em hell David!

09-22-2011, 10:11 AM
That really stinks. I hope whatever happens you are able to get a lease with at least a year or two term.

09-22-2011, 10:28 AM
That sucks David. My suggestion as a Montanan would be that you barricade yourself in your shop within a fortress of cutting boards, blast some CCR, and don't give up until they relent!

09-22-2011, 10:29 AM
Sucks Dave. Hopefully you have some good Karma coming your way to offset some of the recent history.

09-22-2011, 10:35 AM
Thats not very nice of them. 30 days is completely unreasonable I think. Moving workshop is like an investment and you need to get value out of it. I would firm up what deal they are offering, and put into figures an estimate of move costs. Last time I had to move it cost me around 5000 not including loss of work time, but I have some heavy kit and needed to install all the electrics, build shelves and benches etc. If they can't be clear about what they are offering I would find another landlord, as they just cost you a load of money. If your going to do a deal do it before you've moved your stuff, once you've done all that they know they have got you. I would look at other options just so as to not be put in a corner by them and you might find a real gem of a workshop for less money.
On the bright side, every time you move, your space gets better and better thought out and evolved for your needs.

09-22-2011, 12:27 PM

Just spent the morning with a rental agent looking at buildings. The first one depressed me greatly! Larger, further out, double the rent and looked like s*** on a white rag. They offered three months free rent but that was it. No other allowances or help in any way.

The second was a little better. Still in the complex I am in now, larger with wooden floors but no drive-in door. There is one roll-up door I can have moved but that is going to be more expense. Same rent and still offering three months free but adding extra for power where it is included now.

As I told the rental agent, I could tie them up in court with eviction proceedings for 3 to 6 months, maybe longer if I work it just right. That didn't seem to faze him a bit. He just said I needed to be out ASAP but I will drag my feet as much as possible to tie the new tenant up. He is in a bigger bind, his current building has been condemned and he has to move NOW! I can continue to build and if push comes to shove, I can always store the equipment and finish the remaining stock I have out of the old cramped home shop.

As I was on the phone this morning finding out about moving costs for the phone, alarm, HVAC and electric the associated costs rose steeply. Add to those the cost of truck rental and getting temp help plus the business I will loose in October by not being as available as I was, the costs are looking to be in the $12,000.00 range. That isn't something I just have lying around.

I apologize for not sounding more positive, I surely don't want to be that way. Normally I am a happy person but the meeting yesterday afternoon where I got the news was a load I wasn't expecting and floored me. Like I was kicked in the teeth after I have fallen down. Sure has taken all the wind out of me. But, thanks for all your support. It is much appreciated.

Andrew H
09-22-2011, 01:36 PM
Sucky situation, the only leverage you have is going to eviction court and making them lose the huge rent they would be getting during that time. Use that leverage.

I'd also think about contacting the people who want to rent your shop, they would probably put extra pressure on the land lord to help you out if it got them in sooner.

09-22-2011, 02:06 PM
x2 on the sucky situation. Sadly with month-to-month leases, one of the two parties will be left hanging when the other decides to terminate without any more warning then required by the lease agreement. Either the tenant is left searching for a new place with very little notice, or the landlord is left paying a mortgage on a space that sits empty for a month or two before he can line up a new tenant.

I'm not sure what, if anything, the landlord is doing here that is so bad; they appear to be operating within the requirements of the lease agreement -- which obviously both parties agreed to. But this is really coming at a bad time for Dave, which is what makes it extra tough. If nothing else, an extra month or two of notice would have been helpful, but I do not see where the landlord would owe anything beyond what is spelled out in the lease.

But Dave, you do have my condolences. It has been a tough year for you, and this is the last thing you need to deal with right now -- especially when it seems like your business is going at top speed.

09-22-2011, 03:03 PM
Sadly they are doing what the rental agreement spells out for ending the agreement. They gave verbal notice for 30 days to vacate. I can live with that. What I will do is present my last rental check in person on 9/30 with a 30 day notice to vacate in writing.

BTW Supposidly the new tenant is in a nuilding which has been comdemned and has to move. The Planning and Inspections dept has no knowledge of any place in town that fits that description.

09-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Sucky situation, the only leverage you have is going to eviction court and making them lose the huge rent they would be getting during that time. Use that leverage.

I'd also think about contacting the people who want to rent your shop, they would probably put extra pressure on the land lord to help you out if it got them in sooner.

IF you lose the action based on this, will there be a counter suit or damages that you have to pay? That would be more catastrophic..best to get legal advise and know your rights clearly before you do anything. A clear logical decision has to be made. IF you have no case.. best to ask negotiate for assistance, slight extension based on goodwill, compassion or whatever as opposed to with strength unless the rental agreement is otherwise....

Good luck.. and you will get thru this one..... It is not insurmountable.. just one of the blips that we encounter along the way....

rgds david

09-22-2011, 07:56 PM
I just read this Dave and I feel for you, this really sucks!!!! You have had more than your share of bad luck and problems to deal with this past year, you certainly didn't need this right now!! I hope you find a suitable location real soon.

You know if I lived closer that I would be there to lend a hand.

Keith Neal
09-22-2011, 08:12 PM

It would be worth an hour with a real estate lawyer to see what the contract might or might not allow, and, in particular, where the contract might be in violation of the law or current court precedent. Real estate contracts are often in violation of laws and precedents without the knowledge of either party. You must check with a lawyer to find what your options are.


09-22-2011, 08:27 PM
Hi David, just saw this - sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately, I can only give moral support, I have no clue about legal matters. But I hope you will get out of this with most of your money - and ALL of your health!


09-22-2011, 10:11 PM
Thanks to all. This afternoon I had the opportunity to speak with an attorney about this and we did come up with an idea or two. And I will consult with a real estate attorney tomorrow to see what options might be open to me.

All I can say at this point is that if I can stay open I will and if circumstances dictate otherwise, I will accept that and go on with life.

09-23-2011, 09:40 AM
With a situation like this there is no good outcome. You will lose money and they will lose money. If you do something to purposely harm them then they can go after you and drag you into a sh1t tone of court time and attorney fees. Even if they dont win, the cost that you would incur is quite high. Whenever making this sort of decision consult an attorney. They generally know what they are doing. Good luck and godspeed.

09-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Seriously sucks Dave. I've got some stuff going on in October, but PM me if you need a hand. I don't know squat about electrics or anything complicated, but I lift stuff real good :wink:

09-24-2011, 11:58 AM

I am going to look at another building this afternoon that has promise. Closer to home, the same square footage as I was actually using in the current building and just a little more expensive. If the measurements come out as I hope, it could be a go to building.

09-24-2011, 12:01 PM
Are all these places month to month?

09-24-2011, 12:04 PM
The last one was and the new one will have a year lease.

09-24-2011, 04:17 PM
Hoping the new place works well for you.

09-24-2011, 04:29 PM

I am going to look at another building this afternoon that has promise. Closer to home, the same square footage as I was actually using in the current building and just a little more expensive. If the measurements come out as I hope, it could be a go to building.

Glad to hear that.. There is always a positive outcome if you allow it. It should be water under the bridge. Maybe... its just time for a change of venue for whatever reasons..

rgds and have a busy good weekend.....