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View Full Version : Kochi 240 mm kuro-uchi gyuto in V2



tk59
10-02-2011, 12:53 PM
DCís recent KU posts got me thinking that I need to write acouple of reviews.

Iíve been using the 240 mm kuro-uchi finished Kochi for acouple of weeks now and I am very impressed. If my memory serves me, it is thebest pure cutter I have ever used. That is, the amount of resistanceencountered by the user is the least of any similarly sized gyuto I have everused. This maker utilizes a slightly concave grind to achieve a geometry thatis surprisingly thin (I donít get surprised too often anymore.) behind the edgebut substantial at the spine and flexes very little compared to knives groundin the pointier Masamoto style that tend to be quite flexible toward the tip.The drawback is that the tip on the Kochi is less pointed, like a santoku. Mymajor concern with this knife was the strength of the blade near the edge. Icut pretty steep bevels (perhaps 10 deg on a side) into this knife and they arestill merely a hairís width. (It sharpens very easily to a VERY keen edge,btw.) I can see the edge flex a good 3+ mm from the edge (this is a long wayfrom the cutting edge) as I run my nail down the length of it. Yet, it flewthrough everything I threw at it and I cannot detect any deformation in themetal behind the edge. Food release was also outstanding(not the absolute best but pretty close) considering it is a fairly tall knife(53 mm over the heel). I had to chuckle to myself as I tried to chop potatoes,etc. nice and slow to allow them to adhere properly. I was impressed with the edgeholding although I did manage to microchip a little in the curved area towardthe tip. This is probably the place where I tend to do the most chopping and I purposefully tried to be a little rough with it. Thekuro-uchi finish was even and stable. Neither the steel nor the cladding were particularly reactive. The handle was nice and substantial and although I donít like that look,the burnt chestnut does afford a very stable-feeling grip. The fit and finishis excellent, as well. The spine and choil are eased toward the handle and completelyrounded toward the tip. As far as I can tell, there are no bends or twists inthe blade.

Overall, Iím very impressed with the quality of this knifeand the cutting ability, in particular. While I didnít have any trouble withdeformation, I would hate to put this knife in the hands of someone that mightthrow it into a sink or cut a bone with it, etc. due to the thinness near theedge. Over a long period of time, in my hands, this knife would lose someperformance since I cannot hollow grind the secondary (non-cutting) bevel butit would clearly be a while before it got to that point and even so, I think it would continueto be a very good cutter. At $280, I think this knife might win the smiles per dollar category.

wsfarrell
10-02-2011, 01:19 PM
Sounds like a winner. Got any pics?

As for grinding, I think Dave could do us all a favor and import some of those 4 foot diameter, 8 inch wide wheels that most Japanese knifemakers seem to use. Shipping would probably be under $1,000......

tk59
10-02-2011, 01:26 PM
Sounds like a winner. Got any pics?...My pics suck and Jon has nice ones on the Japanese Knife Imports site that accurately reflect the blade that I have.


As for grinding, I think Dave could do us all a favor and import some of those 4 foot diameter, 8 inch wide wheels that most Japanese knifemakers seem to use. Shipping would probably be under $1,000......That would indeed be good but I would prefer to see Jon get one of those so I can park myself in front of it while he's busy with customers, lol.

Wagstaff
10-02-2011, 02:35 PM
Thanks for this post -- I've been looking at those knives on the JKI website a bunch since they first went up. Excellent review.

tk59
10-02-2011, 05:01 PM
Thanks. Now we need a pro to put this thing through the wringer. ;)

wenus2
10-02-2011, 05:32 PM
lol, I dare you to give it to Pesky for a month :bigeek:

Cadillac J
10-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Nice review. I'm not a fan of the shape of those blades though...seem a bit clunky to me from the pics.

Maybe I'm the oddman out, but I seem to have a different definition of "best or purest" cutter. My old thinned out Hiromoto 300 gyuto would cut so easily with no resistance due to the weight of the blade and altered geometry...but I still much prefer super thin knives for most things and feel like they are the best cutters above all else for me for how they perform. I think different techniques play a big part of it.

tk59
10-03-2011, 12:43 AM
Haha. I know thin. I was trying to spare you people my picture taking skillz but... Which do you think is thinner? One is my 240 (really 240) Carter, another is the 240 (245) Kochi, the last is my thinned out 270 (really 263) Kon HD.
18581859
The Kochi is the top and left one. Four inches from the tip, it is 1.75 mm, the Carter is 1.72, KonHD is 1.81. At the heel, the forged knife is always thicker but even there, you can see that a few mm behind the edge, the Kochi is thinnest. At 4 mm behind the edge, the Carter is 0.62 mm thick on average over three points. The Kon HD was 0.56 and the Kochi was 0.43 mm thick at the same distance from the edge. Also take into account that I thinned the crap out of my HD. So what's thin to you? "Pure cutting" basically means chopping. No drawing the knife as you cut to reduce sticking or friction, etc. This knife will outperform any other that I've seen or modified.

El Pescador
10-03-2011, 12:56 AM
I was lucky enough to use it for a bit and it one of the thinnest 240mm gyutos behind the edge I have used. I am only allowed to use it IN TK59's kitchen and under no circumstances can I take it to work.

mattrud
10-03-2011, 01:11 AM
I agree with Tk on this knife. I used Jon's briefly and it is a nice knife. Both the kurochi and the polish blades have very nice geometry and great feel. One of my favorite knives that Jon has at his shop. His single bevel Geshin line was also impressive.

tk59
10-03-2011, 01:14 AM
By the way, as far as "clunky" is concerned, it is a little more blade heavy than most balancing at about 30 mm in front of the heel. In terms of weight, the Carter was 188 g, the Kochi, 206 g and the HD 196 g. The Carter was rehandled...

DwarvenChef
10-03-2011, 01:18 AM
Mmm sounds like one to look into :)

Work is not a place to keep thin at, in general. But I have taken my thin ones in years ago and I was always nervous of others (non knife cooks) trashing them for me while I couldn't see them...

Cadillac J
10-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Which do you think is thinner?

The Kochi definitely looks super thin behind the edge in that pic and reminds me a lot of my Takedas in that respect, which is a great thing!

I actually like how the 270 kurouchi gyuto looks much better than the 210s I clicked on originally. How is the handle size, big/small? How is the V2 in sharpening and retention? (looks really good for edge taking)

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
i like the look of this, might have to get one after i figure out a sujihiki. i really like the V2 in my yoshikane. really nice steel.

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 07:51 PM
well jeez, i went and looked, and the price was just under my threshold, so lee's see if this knife is as nice as you say it is. :)

TamanegiKin
10-03-2011, 08:22 PM
well jeez, i went and looked, and the price was just under my threshold, so lee's see if this knife is as nice as you say it is. :)

Nice, which did you get, 270 or 240?

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 08:38 PM
240. i'm sure it'll be shorter than my 240 Yoshi and Shig, but should be a long enough. i'll likely get it re-handled.

JBroida
10-03-2011, 08:40 PM
fwiw, they are measured from heel to tip... pretty much a true 240

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 08:41 PM
fwiw, they are measured from heel to tip... pretty much a true 240

nice! in that case, it should be perfect for me. do these come with a Saya, Jon?

JBroida
10-03-2011, 08:59 PM
no saya sadly... sorry

tk59
10-03-2011, 09:00 PM
As I mentioned before: The length on this one is 245 mm (that's along the edge), it sharpens up very easily and gets very sharp (as pretty much all carbon steels do).
Handle size is on the large side of the medium range. It is similar in size to the handles on my 270 DTITK gyuto and 270 IT.

I looked at it very carefully today and there is one very small deformation along the edge. I doubt 99.9% of the population would notice it, maybe even fewer than that.

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 09:04 PM
no saya sadly... sorry

that's cool, you can't have everything all the time. :)

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 09:05 PM
As I mentioned before: The length on this one is 245 mm.

i've been having reading comprehension problems, lately. didn't even see the mention, despite reading your post. probably steel filings in my brain from sharpening too much, or something.

tk59
10-03-2011, 09:56 PM
i've been having reading comprehension problems, lately. didn't even see the mention, despite reading your post. probably steel filings in my brain from sharpening too much, or something.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was about to say that I put a lot of text together. It's easy to miss something.

EdipisReks
10-03-2011, 10:45 PM
probably just working too hard.

EdipisReks
10-06-2011, 04:29 PM
just received it. damn that is thin behind the edge. i mean, damn.

EdipisReks
10-06-2011, 05:50 PM
really nice knife. i gave the handle a quick refinish, as i dislike the burnt look and feel. i may put some more time into the handle before deciding whether i want to put a custom on. in terms of how it feels and how it cuts, my initial thoughts mirror tk's.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8141/knives.jpg

G-rat
10-06-2011, 05:59 PM
That is a sweet knife! Looks awesome. I was immediately drawn to these when they came up on the website. That handle gives me some inspiration for what I want to put on my mizuno Gyuto. I think it looks real handsome. The spine seems to bend down unlike the shigefusa which is dead straight. Do you feel that when you handle it?

EdipisReks
10-06-2011, 06:12 PM
it's really an optical illusion due to the way the spine thins. it's pretty straight.

DwarvenChef
10-06-2011, 06:34 PM
Wow that is nice indeed :)

EdipisReks
10-06-2011, 06:37 PM
everything about the knife is top notch.

EdipisReks
11-23-2011, 06:53 PM
Over a long period of time, in my hands, this knife would lose someperformance since I cannot hollow grind the secondary (non-cutting) bevel but it would clearly be a while before it got to that point and even so, I think it would continueto be a very good cutter. At $280, I think this knife might win the smiles per dollar category.

i managed to chip the heel on mine a couple nights ago (no idea how), and i re-profiled and thinned the knife out last night and today to repair. it still cuts just about as great as it did with the hollow grind (i gave it a slight convexing on both sides, as i tend to do), so i think this is a winner long term.