PDA

View Full Version : 52100 - questions



oivind_dahle
10-02-2011, 01:30 PM
Hi all.

I have tried a lot of steels but not 52100. As I have read it sounds fantastic, but how is it reactiveness?

I have white#1 that starts to rust just after 5 minutes (Kanetsune 210 Deba), but I have a cladded Carter that is not that insane to rust. White, but unsure of #1 or #2, I also have some blue that is insane to rust.

The reason that I ask is that I just ordered a new petty Hon warikomi-style blade combining a 52100 carbon steel core with 416 stainless steel sides.

But several members of the household might use this when Im not around, and Im afraid of what they might do to it....
All my 240 Guytos and larger are left alone, but this is a smaller petty and Im afraid that it can be damaged if left alone...

What do you guys think of 52100?

tk59
10-02-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't find 52100 particularly reactive. I've never had a rust spot myself. I've also seen one that Pesky uses that has obviously been abused but is still in good shape. Marko's kitchen knife is also "abused" somewhat, from his description and it hasn't had rust problems either. It ain't stainless though.

Larrin
10-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Since the comparison of "steel reactiveness" on these forums never make any metallurgical sense I will say that you shouldn't worry about it. The differences seen between these relatively simple carbon steels are more likely attributable to surface finish and use.

oivind_dahle
10-02-2011, 03:20 PM
So this knife doesn't need a babysitter?
I can trust that its not destroyed even after 8 hours of being wet?

:D

kalaeb
10-02-2011, 03:31 PM
So this knife doesn't need a babysitter?
I can trust that its not destroyed even after 8 hours of being wet?

:D

Its still carbon.

tk59
10-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Its still carbon.Exactly.

EdipisReks
10-02-2011, 10:10 PM
I can trust that its not destroyed even after 8 hours of being wet?

absolutely correct, as long as the result you are looking for is a pile of wet rust.

Peco
10-03-2011, 02:12 AM
Well, I have talked with Marko about the 52100 "Masamoto" he makes. Test's has proved it to be a great knife i.e. anti-rust, edge retention etc. I'm positive that the 52100 steel will require a little care but not a whole lot. At least that is the impression I got thru our conversations. When I receive my knife I will test it for a week = approx. 60 hours of use. After that I will post a review.

oivind_dahle
10-03-2011, 03:31 AM
I have good feeling about 52100. Ive spoken privatly with some makers. The one thing Im afraid of is that its going to be destroyed accidentely by household members who cuts something and dont wipe off.

Gonna talk to the maker, even thoug its the most beautiful knife in the world, it can be turned to dust by my household members :(
And then its not worth it at all...

:(

Cipcich
10-03-2011, 05:39 AM
No wonder things are going to hell. All the good knives are apparently going to Northern Europe . .

zitangy
10-03-2011, 06:22 AM
taken from http://www.jayfisher.com/Blades.htm#CPM154CM

excerpts for this portion...
"If you need a very good technical reason for a mirror finish, even in a utility working knife, it's corrosion resistance. All steels benefit from a reduced surface area that is the result of mirror finishing. When a blade is ground or sanded to finer and finer grits, the surface scratches become smaller and smaller, and more and more shallow with each diminishing grit size. The surface of the metal is like a field of furrows, starting out deep and rough, with the surface broken up in hills and valleys, grain exposed like dirt clods in freshly plowed land. You can visualize that a tremendous amount of surface area and roughness is exposed, and the more surface area, the more contact corrosive fluids and oxygen will have with the components in the molecular crystalline structure of the steel. This is like the plowed field's ability to take on water. Now, as the field of steel is finished finer and finer, these rough surfaces, hills, and valleys are reduced considerably. So, then, is the surface area, and more corrosion resistance is obtained. But when brought to the finest mirror finish, something entirely different happens. The act of polishing literally melts the microscopic surface of the steel and blends the smallest furrows and imperfections into one monolithic surface. It's like spreading a layer of clay onto our smoothed dirt field, thus preventing water from penetrating, as it is trapped on the surface. Since the surface area is reduced to a minimum and smoothed, the steel (and every other metal polished this way) is much more resistant to corrosion. Since corrosion is a reaction of oxygen and often a fluid, minimizing the surface area assures the greatest corrosion resistance. The surface, like the surface of our clay field is slick, resistant, and clean. Not so great for the farmer, fantastic for steel and its corrosion resistance."

"A Mirror Finish is best, for a host of reasons. It's beautiful. High chromium and alloy tool steels can be made to obtain a gorgeous finish, even D2 with its characteristic orange peel appearance is enhanced by mirror finishing. A mirror finished blued blade is stunning. The mirror finish has the highest appeal among most collectors and users. It increases the value of the knife, also the cost as the blade labor is more than doubled (that's probably why most makers just sand their blades). Historically, the mirror finish is found on only the highest valued jewelry, firearms, blades, swords, and armament. A mirror finish doesn't hold debris, water, or corrosives. The blade slides through materials with less effort. And there are some studies that indicate a high polish increases the break resistance of the blade, because all fractures start from a surface imperfection."

Salty dog
10-03-2011, 06:27 AM
+1

Marko Tsourkan
10-03-2011, 09:06 AM
No wonder things are going to hell. All the good knives are apparently going to Northern Europe . .

Most actually stay here in the US, I think.

Regarding 52100, it is an interesting steel. I have abuses mine (just to see how far I can push it in terms of least maintenance) and blade discolored and even developed an ugly orange patina, but no rust. Just got another knife of mine back. After 2.5months of pro use the knife developed a dark-gray patina, but again, no rust.

I too am gravitating toward higher grit finish on 52100, as finer scratches do help prevent rust.

The best solution for Oivind is to get 52100 clad with a stainless steel. Not an easy thing to do, but has been done by some makers.

M

zitangy
10-03-2011, 09:16 AM
hi marko.. any pics? i have been staying away from stainless steel for this reason . The "seasoned" look.. is it still appealing? or will it be a far cry for the original state....

wld appreciate any pics that you would like to share.

tks and rgds
D

Marko Tsourkan
10-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Before and After pics. The middle knife I purposely abused to see how little maintenance I can get away with.

1860

1861

jackslimpson
10-03-2011, 01:28 PM
52100 - questions

[don't worry, I got this ..]

Wow -- that's a lot of questions.

El Pescador
10-03-2011, 01:59 PM
Well, I have talked with Marko about the 52100 "Masamoto" he makes. Test's has proved it to be a great knife i.e. anti-rust, edge retention etc. I'm positive that the 52100 steel will require a little care but not a whole lot. At least that is the impression I got thru our conversations. When I receive my knife I will test it for a week = approx. 60 hours of use. After that I will post a review.

Lol! I have a DT 52100 ITK gyuto and it rusts.

Marko Tsourkan
10-03-2011, 02:30 PM
@Peco
there must have been miscommunication on my part as I didn't mean to tell you that 52100 doesn't rust. 52100 rusts, but it won't rust on your eyes like Shigefusa (without patina) would. The knife in the picture above (middle one) was left overnight with a dampened surface on a few occasions. It discolored, but didn't rust.

M

Peco
10-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Marko, it might be me who does not explain myself right OR have a different understanding of rust! I'm confident that the 52100 will be great. Lots of people buy and use Shig's which as you mention is a lot more reactive - if the 52100 is better we don't have anything to worry about - I for one don't ;)

Sorry if I made it sound like you said things in a different way than you did - that was not my intention!!!

Peco
10-03-2011, 04:13 PM
Before and After pics. The middle knife I purposely abused to see how little maintenance I can get away with.

1860

1861

Looks great :D

zitangy
10-04-2011, 06:45 AM
thanks for the pictures. Very well taken.

rgds
d