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View Full Version : Microbevel or no..?



macmiddlebrooks
10-04-2011, 02:46 PM
I put my first (ever tried) microbevel on my Genga Gisshin 240mm gyuto today at work and my first impressions are:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5938303766_71590979fa_b.jpg

- easy to do (on a 4000 shapton)

- the "feel" of passing the blade through peppers,etc. was slowed to a small degree ....it was noticeable.

- edge retention through a case of said peppers + case mushrooms+ herbs was pretty much the same as when I did not microbevel (I did have to steel after in order to slice into a pepper skin smoothly).

I'm wondering if this is a good idea at all, any thoughts?

JBroida
10-04-2011, 02:49 PM
what kind of angle did you use? what kind of pressure? How is the normal bevel sharpened?

Justin0505
10-04-2011, 03:17 PM
I've been messing with micro and compound bevels for awhile and i should probably have been more scientific and documented my angles better, but anecdotaly, I've found that the ratio/ difference in angles is very important. If your microbevel is too much greater (more obtuse) than the angle behind it, it can feel and perform like a much duller edge. I've put crazy thin edges on knives with too-obtuse micro bevels before and while they would pop hairs, they also failed the 3finger test and felt like fat virgins (thick and resistant) on product.

macmiddlebrooks
10-04-2011, 03:22 PM
It has been thinned slightly after the original edge (not sure of exact angles...slightly less than 12?). Microbevel was around 16 or 17 deg. approximately. Not much pressure on any of my sharpening unless I'm re-profileng a co-worker's knives....very light. It seems like it's doing what it's supposed to be doing (feels slightly thicker going through food) but needs to be steeled just as often. I'm just wondering if I should do this as I was under the impression that it would extend the life of the edge. I may just go back to to the stones and enjoy that "falling through food feeling" I love so much :). P.S. John: Did you get my email concerning the konosuke #2 hold/deposit request? Please PM me or email me as I want to throw some funds your way.

memorael
10-04-2011, 03:27 PM
I would imagine your knife isn't single bevel, otherwise known as asymmetrical I don't think you need a micro bevel. Plus it looks like the edge on your knife is pretty thick so I would say skip it. Usually when you have a bevel of about IDK... maybe an inch think or .75 inches at least its when micro bevels come into play at least in my knives. I don't know how correct I am on this but Jon or some other pro should chime in soon enough.

Looks like you posted a second before I did. Just curious if the pic here is how your knife looks after it was sharpened?

macmiddlebrooks
10-04-2011, 03:34 PM
I would imagine your knife isn't single bevel, otherwise known as asymmetrical I don't think you need a micro bevel. Plus it looks like the edge on your knife is pretty thick so I would say skip it. Usually when you have a bevel of about IDK... maybe an inch think or .75 inches at least its when micro bevels come into play at least in my knives. I don't know how correct I am on this but Jon or some other pro should chime in soon enough.

Looks like you posted a second before I did. Just curious if the pic here is how your knife looks after it was sharpened?

Yes, although I've stoned it a 3-4 times since.

JBroida
10-04-2011, 03:59 PM
got the e-mail... trying to clear out my 100+ messages in my inbox today... sorry if it takes me a bit to get back to you.

on the microbevels, i think your knife is probably better without one in this case.

Cadillac J
10-04-2011, 04:34 PM
maybe an inch think or .75 inches at least its when micro bevels come into play at least in my knives.

I agree, this is how it has been in my experience as well. The only knife I have a micro-bevel on is my Takeda, as it is so acute and thin behind the edge that it really needs one. However, I know some people swear by micro-bevels on most knives, but I just never had a need.

tk59
10-04-2011, 04:44 PM
It depends on the way your edge is failing. If the edge is failing due to wear then it will not matter. If you have a wire edge, it will also not matter. If your edge is failing due to deformation or chipping/cracking, they the microbevel will make a significant difference. I only put a microbevel when I know the people that are using the knife are not going to be careful with a thin edge or if it is a single bevel. The Gesshin Ginga steel is tough and not prone to cracking and chipping. You'd have to thin that sucker quite a bit before it needs a micro.

macmiddlebrooks
10-04-2011, 05:18 PM
I think you guys are right on the money, thanks for the info, I really do appreciate it.

Eamon Burke
10-04-2011, 05:19 PM
The edge will not cut better, strictly speaking, with a microbevel. In fact, it's raw cutting power will diminish. The point of a microbevel is to do one of two things:
1. Make upkeep of PITA steels easier by working with smaller bevels.
2. Strengthen the edge.

If you aren't having problems with chipping/rolling, etc, there is no need to microbevel. Except for fun maybe.

On my VG-10 knife, I can get a few extra days out of it at work if I microbevel it. Not always worth the effort(though sometimes it is...which is why it is nice to sharpen your own stuff).

stevenStefano
10-04-2011, 05:40 PM
I just sharpened my Hattori and KV8 about 5 mins ago and decided to put a microbevel on them both which I do rarely. They've both been heavily thinned and chip a little so hopefully they work out a little more durable.

Knifefan
10-04-2011, 10:30 PM
I usually put an 8 deg edge (16 deg included angle) on my knives. I microbevel by a few strokes on a #10K Chosera at around 15 deg. I feel a very small loss in sharpness, but the knives can keep a shaving level edge for a week (in a home kitchen). Without Microbevel, there is a significant loss of sharpness after a few cutting sessions.

Naturally, the smaller the difference in angle becomes between the original bevel and microbevel, the less impact it will have.

tk59
10-05-2011, 01:02 AM
Which knives are these?

Knifefan
10-05-2011, 02:51 AM
VG10, ZDP189 (Cowry X), SG2, SKD11, 52100.

Haven't tried edge retention of 52100 without microbevel. But at least with harder stainless steel it does make a significant difference.

Citizen Snips
10-05-2011, 11:15 AM
The edge will not cut better, strictly speaking, with a microbevel. In fact, it's raw cutting power will diminish. The point of a microbevel is to do one of two things:
1. Make upkeep of PITA steels easier by working with smaller bevels.
2. Strengthen the edge.

If you aren't having problems with chipping/rolling, etc, there is no need to microbevel. Except for fun maybe.

On my VG-10 knife, I can get a few extra days out of it at work if I microbevel it. Not always worth the effort(though sometimes it is...which is why it is nice to sharpen your own stuff).

ive also used them for a third reason, to remove the burr. putting the angle very high will do this but i found it was not very helpful on my hamaguri sharpened HD. i think it might be better suited for a tad or suisin

tk59
10-06-2011, 01:32 AM
VG10, ZDP189 (Cowry X), SG2, SKD11, 52100.

Haven't tried edge retention of 52100 without microbevel. But at least with harder stainless steel it does make a significant difference.
A micro makes sense for all of those steels except the 52100 since that is the only one that is really fine grained.