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Bill Burke
10-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to take a minute to let everyone know about the second annual Boise knife show. It is going to be the last weekend of Oct. That's the 27-29. Boise is a nice place to fly into and out of and the weather should be nice and mild. Hope to see some of you here. Www.rockymountainknifeshow.com

bikehunter
10-06-2011, 02:30 PM
Thanks, Bill. I've been to a few of these in the past, but when I was interested in combat knives, and before I was into Japanese kitchen knives. Will kitchen knives be well represented, or just you and a few other makers here and there? Oh...And...I'll ride my bike..not fly. LOL

Burl Source
10-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Last year was the first for the Boise Show.
It was the most fun knife show I have attended.
There was a good mix of knife types by really good knife makers.
I will be there this year.
They changed the date to fall on my birthday this year.
So if you come by to say hello, don't forget to bring my birthday present.

Salty dog
10-07-2011, 03:01 PM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to take a minute to let everyone know about the second annual Boise knife show. It is going to be the last weekend of Oct. That's the 27-29. Boise is a nice place to fly into and out of and the weather should be nice and mild. Hope to see some of you here. Www.rockymountainknifeshow.com

Are you going to do the challenge?

Salty dog
10-07-2011, 03:05 PM
And if so, what about doing it with a kitchen knife? The tip thing is the only challenge.

Bill Burke
10-10-2011, 11:41 AM
And if so, what about doing it with a kitchen knife? The tip thing is the only challenge.

If a few of the guys here were coming I could maybee be convinced to do the challenge with a kitchen knife.

kalaeb
10-10-2011, 02:26 PM
I am going to attempt to make it if I can juggle some flights. Its only a five hour drive from my house, except that one weekend I will be on the other side of the country. DOH!

oivind_dahle
10-10-2011, 04:43 PM
Mr Burke:

How about some pics of the knives you will bring to the show?

Bill Burke
10-10-2011, 09:08 PM
Mr Burke:

How about some pics of the knives you will bring to the show?

there is not a one even close to being finished. I may get a coupl,e done for the show but that is yet to be seen.

Bill Burke
10-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Here is a photo for everyone. 305 mm sujihiki Musk ox handle with mokume bolsters and a mosaic pin. Ok so I am not smart enough to post picture from my phone. I'll try later.

tk59
10-29-2011, 07:43 PM
Is it up for sale? :D

oivind_dahle
10-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Im sooooo looking forward to see a pic of this one :)
I guess it looks like Colins Suji :)

Hope you are back on track Bill and that your wife is getting better :)

Bill Burke
10-29-2011, 11:46 PM
Is it up for sale? :D

it is right now

Oivind it is similar to Colins but different.

here are the pictures

http://www.fototime.com/4EAB856F792C511/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D00B913DB308CDD/standard.jpg

sachem allison
10-30-2011, 12:17 AM
Oh! Sweet Jesus!

mr drinky
10-30-2011, 12:31 AM
Holy smokes that is amazing. I'm ignoring the for sale info as I am sure someone has nabbed it already.

k.

oivind_dahle
10-30-2011, 04:44 AM
Damn!

You truly make some insane knives.
Im soooo looking forward to my birthday! :)

Ive been on EE at least twice a week, last year :)
Is it harder to make damscus sanmai than "normal" sanmai?

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=89203&photo=6&size=n

:)

kalaeb
10-30-2011, 10:51 AM
WOW! Were there any other kitchen cutlery makers at the show?

Bill Burke
10-30-2011, 12:03 PM
Hoss

mattrud
10-30-2011, 01:17 PM
love that knife Bill. Great work!

Bill Burke
10-30-2011, 03:27 PM
It sold for cash money at the show. But Daniel at EE is who bought it. 3350.00

oivind_dahle
10-30-2011, 03:54 PM
Im so glad it sold at the show :)

I see on the first photo that it got a price? What kind of price?
As always Bill: Im impressed :)

mattrud
10-30-2011, 04:22 PM
Nice grab for Daniel. How come he always ends up with your knives?!?!?!?! Always a pleasure to see your work Bill.

Marko Tsourkan
10-30-2011, 05:18 PM
Nice grab for Daniel. How come he always ends up with your knives?!?!?!?! Always a pleasure to see your work Bill.

Fast leg work. :)

Bill Burke
10-30-2011, 06:14 PM
I held it till the last hour of the show before I sold it to him. Turns out he was the only kitchen knife buyer that turned up at the show. This knife won best culinary knife award.

Andrew H
10-30-2011, 06:30 PM
Is he planning on reselling it or is it for personal use?

Bill Burke
10-30-2011, 06:33 PM
Is he planning on reselling it or is it for personal use?

I am sure it will be for resale

Bill Burke
10-31-2011, 12:22 AM
Had a great time after the show. Went to dinner with Hoss and his son John, then back to my place where we sat around and and had a good discussion about knife making and heat treating. thanks Hoss it was a great time.

Eamon Burke
10-31-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow! Amazi ng

DevinT
10-31-2011, 09:39 PM
Yea, Bill beat me head to head in the culinary competition. One judge insisted that my feather pattern 180 should be the winner and the other two judges thought that Bill's was best. All the judges thought that the feather pattern 180 should be moved to the " Best Damascus" catagory and I won that award.

Congrats to Bill.

Bill and Patty along with the other knife guy's in the Boise area were great hosts. We had a great time. Thank you Bill.

Hoss

Michael Rader
11-01-2011, 01:42 AM
Sounds like you guys had fun. Anyone actually sell any knives there to regular customers or did Epic Edge grab them all? Last year lots of guys said they had a great show, but when I asked who they sold to, most said it was to Daniel. (For the record, most of the knives I sold last year were to him too - and I don't have a problem with that at all.)

Just askin': Are there enough regular customers that buy knives at the shows to make the trip worth it?

-M

oivind_dahle
11-19-2011, 04:40 AM
Michael:

Shows like this are not all about selling knives, they are also about making a reputation. Bladeshows starts to show interest in kitchen knives as well, and this is great news for kitchen knife makers. The knife Daniel bought from Bill was sold out at once, long before it was on his website. All I can find now is this:
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=89777

I am however still amazed about you blacksmiths not taking more control over your selling and buying. If I was a smith in US I would have met up with the good ones and made a common website with info and a webstore as well. Maybe hired a person to do marketing and branding as well as communicate with the press.
Product placement in different magazines and stuff like that. Its a win-win for everybody. The selling through KFF must be a minimum, after what I can tell...

JohnnyChance
11-19-2011, 06:22 AM
Most of the guys here have pretty long wait lists. Maybe not infinitely long like Bob, but even the short ones are a couple months, and most are closer to a year or more. You should know this better than anyone Oivind! If they have orders lined up for the next year, how much more marketing do they need to do? If they could make stuff any faster, their wait lists would be shorter.

oivind_dahle
11-19-2011, 09:16 AM
I know they have a long waiting list, but again they don't charge what they should. What a customer wants to pay is reflected in the size of the need. Ie:

How much are you wiling to pay for a gallon of gasoline? 1 dollar or maybe 10 dollar? (remember I don't know the normal price in US). This is because your need is small. Imagine being in the middle of nowhere, its winter, night and 50 miles to next gasoline station. What are you willing to pay when you run out of gas? 100 dollars? So the size of your need reflects the price.

The price is also set by a group of persons, and I think you are familiar with this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P9rgE9J8DC8/TZoqDQikLxI/AAAAAAAAAJk/wHEwjH0UKQ8/s1600/supply_and_demand.gif


Even though Bill and Devin got a year waiting list, they don't take the right price. Since this is Bills forum, Ill use him as example:

Im buying a knife from Bill, i.e. 240 Guyto and with all my bling it will end up at 2700 USD. Bill starts to work on it, and due to materials, equipment and other expenses he might have 1800 as income. Those who don't know Bill here is something to read: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/printpost.php?tid/862213/

The short version: Bill puts down at least 60 hours of work on ONE knife, and if he ***** up the hours is even more. But lets hold on to 60 hours, working on my 2700 knife he will have an hour rate of: 2700 - 900 = 1500 / 60 = 25 dollar (this will not include taxes, retirement plan, insureanse and so on). I think this is not that much an hour

But I ordered a second from bill to 1400 (A small petty), the fun part is that this knife takes the same amount time to make and uses almost as much materials. Lets say he is left behind with 600 use on this divided by 60 = 10 dollars an hour. This is without taxes and ****.

I know Bill put like 100 hours into each of knives so I estimate his income of less than 10 USD an hour, and you think customs are expensive? Nah, they are actually cheap! They are too cheap, but alas there are not enough customers out there to raise the prices. I feel bad when I read that he needs to take an ordinary job to have some income.

So customs are actually cheap, they take much hard work to make just one knife (this is why a blade maker rarely take a order on just one small knife as it is supposed to be cheaper than a longer, yet takes as much materials and time). To raise the prices, you have to make the marked understand that its hard to make a knife, its a skill that involves a lot of passion and knowledge.

And common man doesn't hang on a forum to read about it, they need it served the way they understand it. When they understand it, their need will become bigger and then Bill and the gang can raise their prices. I saw in a post Sur La table offered 8" bob kramer limited edition machine manufactured for 1800 USD. And they will get it, because the story and the knives are served in a way customer likes and understand it.

Exuse my bad english, but Im trying to explain business here.

I am a man that truly respects Bill and I admire his work, I have not once tried to argue on his prices. And I will not ever argue with him. Im just extremely happy to have the opportunity to have some of his knives, and even though Im not a rich man Ive payed my knives over time with him.

Michael Rader
11-19-2011, 01:29 PM
That's good and all, Oivind, but I was asking Bill if anyone actually sold a knife to a regular customer at the Idaho show. I was thinking that I might go back next year if I thought I might actually sell a knife. My waiting list is up near a year with orders right now and in order to go to a show, it has to be worth it to me to get some "extra" knives worked up. Sure the socializing at a show is nice and the meet-n-greet aspect is nice, but if I can't pay for the show while I'm there, then I'm not going. I should make a graph on that...

-M

oivind_dahle
11-20-2011, 07:25 AM
Well, you don't need to make a graph ;)

But titles are important, so a Best in Show knife, will make you be able to raise your prices :)
Customers want the best of the best ;)
To build a reputation, you need to get to shows, to appear in media and so on ;)

Sometimes you have to invest to get right price for your knives .)
Bob Kramer is an artist, he appears in the media, he has a strategic relationship to stores like SLT and stuff like that. He invested in reputation, branding and marketing :)

mr drinky
11-20-2011, 10:59 AM
I bought one of Devin's show blades after the Las Vegas knife show last year, but it was sold through Wisconsin Mark after the fact. IMO, if the knife show buzz is threaded on the forum with pictures (WIPs and event pictures), I think it creates a forum buzz and the knives probably have a better chance of selling quickly on the retail vendor market (if not sold at the show).

k.

Michael Rader
11-20-2011, 12:36 PM
Good point Mr. D. And Oivind, how many knife shows does Bob Kramer go to?
-M

Andrew H
11-20-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't think Bob Kramer invested anything into his marketing Oivind. I believe he just was contacted by Saveur out of the blue, and blew up overnight. Sure, now that he has that publicity he does more articles and things with SLT - but I don't think he ever made a conscious decision to brand himself.

WildBoar
11-20-2011, 01:15 PM
But titles are important to sheeple, so a Best in Show knife, will make you be able to raise your prices so only people who don't really know about knives but can afford expensive, shiny things can buy them :)
Customers with a lot of disposable income want the best of the best ;)
To build a reputation of a maker that people who really need/ use knives look upon warily, you need to get to shows, to appear in media and so on ;)

Sometimes you have to invest to get the maximum price for your knives .)
Bob Kramer is an artist, he appears in the media, he has a strategic relationship to stores like SLT and stuff like that. He invested in reputation, branding and marketing :) Yet despite all of this, he still makes very nice knives!FTFY ;)

Oivind, you would do well here in the US. The hype machine works very well over here.

oivind_dahle
11-20-2011, 03:37 PM
Good point Mr. D. And Oivind, how many knife shows does Bob Kramer go to?
-M

AFAIK he is done with knife shows. However he is on tv, in magazines and different places to brand himself.
And thats why I wonder why not blade smiths come together and start to build their reputation :)

BK is a master of branding and marketing, he is handsome and can appear on tv and shows. He also speaks well, and hypes his own knives.
Ill bet a poor knife maker would do great with the right marketing skills :)

Michael Rader
11-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Yeah, marketing is key to a lot of this and "hype" does sell knives, that is for sure. I really like Bob and what he has done to help. A rising tide lifts all boats. It's a good thing.

-M

oivind_dahle
11-20-2011, 03:59 PM
No argue there :)

BK has done a lot for the knife makers. I cant afford his knives, but he seams like a really nice guy.

mr drinky
11-20-2011, 06:00 PM
A rising tide lifts all boats. It's a good thing.

-M

Rader just outed himself as a Regan Republican ;)


k.

Bill Burke
11-20-2011, 07:36 PM
Michael, sorry for the delay. There where a few knives sold that Daniel didn't buy but all in all I think that he bought the majority.

Michael Rader
11-20-2011, 09:43 PM
It's all good, Bill. I love it when Daniel buys knives at shows, but I really don't consider it a good show when he is the top buyer there... you know what I mean? We all can sell knives to Blade Gallery whenever we want, so why go to the show? (I mean from a sales - not socializing perspective.)

Yup, Mr. D. 'fraid so, and I gots me a big ol' Kimber .45 on my hip too :-)

...actually I do!

-M

Michael Rader
11-21-2011, 01:48 PM
Okay, sorry about that. Back on topic now...

-M