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View Full Version : Henckels Twin Cermax?



scott6452
10-16-2011, 06:42 PM
These knives hardly seem to be mentioned on the forum for their (apparant) performance to price ratio. Are they such bad knives or is there a negative bias towards them for being more mass produced? I was thinking of getting the 240mm chefs knife as i need something that can stand up to long hours on poly boards (no choice on the board, pro kitchen :() Im also a sucker for a "different" looking western handle.

Has anybody had any personal experience with these to comment on the edge holding ability etc? Ive heard the 240 chefs is the only well balanced of the entire line so thats a good start. It is a toss up between this and the knife of the hour, the Konosuke HD. Well, i was looking at the kono zdp189 but must resist!

Andrew H
10-16-2011, 07:01 PM
These knives hardly seem to be mentioned on the forum for their (apparant) performance to price ratio. Are they such bad knives or is there a negative bias towards them for being more mass produced? I was thinking of getting the 240mm chefs knife as i need something that can stand up to long hours on poly boards (no choice on the board, pro kitchen :() Im also a sucker for a "different" looking western handle.

Has anybody had any personal experience with these to comment on the edge holding ability etc? Ive heard the 240 chefs is the only well balanced of the entire line so thats a good start. It is a toss up between this and the knife of the hour, the Konosuke HD. Well, i was looking at the kono zdp189 but must resist!

Knife of the hour is a good thing!

scott6452
10-16-2011, 07:11 PM
It must be, it's got me convinced to buy one!

stevenStefano
10-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Quite a few members here have the Twin Cermax so they will clearly know more than me, but I have been close to buying one a few times but didn't for a few reasons. They seem to be quite fragile and the handles are supposedly not so good. They are tempting I must admit, and can be bought in Europe at quite a reasonable price without having to pay stupid import fess and all that, so I guess it's up to you. If you look at the last couple of pages of this thread (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?2489-which-zwilling-j-a-henckel-knives/page4) you'll see where I posted a similar question as yours and the responses. Hope it helps

scott6452
10-16-2011, 07:30 PM
Quite a few members here have the Twin Cermax so they will clearly know more than me, but I have been close to buying one a few times but didn't for a few reasons. They seem to be quite fragile and the handles are supposedly not so good. They are tempting I must admit, and can be bought in Europe at quite a reasonable price without having to pay stupid import fess and all that, so I guess it's up to you. If you look at the last couple of pages of this thread (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?2489-which-zwilling-j-a-henckel-knives/page4) you'll see where I posted a similar question as yours and the responses. Hope it helps

Thanks for the information. From users themselves, the handles seem to get mostly positive reviews. Il see if anybody that has pulled the trigger on one can comment. Ironically it is still cheaper for me to buy one from CKTG and get it shipped over as buying in uk it works out to around $390! Crazy UK :shocked3: Maybe i just buy the henckels and the konosuke haha.

On a totally different topic im that sick of using poly boards with no other option in uk that im considering spending like $100 on a sani-tuff to get some better edge retention as i cant disgrace the poly boards enough. Although to make myself feel better, i did attack one of the old ones with an axe during our annual board change. Ah that was nice!

stevenStefano
10-16-2011, 07:43 PM
You can buy a Twin Cermax here at Edenwebshops (http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-zwilling-henckels-twin-cermax-chef-s-knife-9.htm) for about 200 which is quite reasonable and you won't have to pay import duties and all that. Yeah poly boards totally suck I know how you feel

EdipisReks
10-16-2011, 08:10 PM
You can buy a Twin Cermax here at Edenwebshops (http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-zwilling-henckels-twin-cermax-chef-s-knife-9.htm) for about 200 which is quite reasonable and you won't have to pay import duties and all that. Yeah poly boards totally suck I know how you feel

i haven't seen a Cermax chefs knife in person, but the profile looks pretty good in that picture. now i kinda want one. :)

Knifefan
10-16-2011, 08:25 PM
I have a Cermax Petty and a Miyabi 7000mc 9" Chef's which is made of the same steel than the Cermax. I can attest to the edge holding ability of the steel. If this is your primary concern, you can't do any better than ZDP189 (or Cowry X as in a Hattori KD...). Also I don't find ZDP189 in Henckels knives fragile. It's less chippy than my Shun Elite.

I also once had a Cermax in 9" which I sold to a friend. The 9" is well balanced and I had no issues with the handle. But the shorter Cermax are handle heavy.

A Konosuke HD may be 'hotter' than a Cermax, but if you are looking for a solid performer with excellent edge retention and if you can get a good deal on them, you can't go wrong with the Cermax.

EdipisReks
10-16-2011, 08:36 PM
looks like a good deal for somebody in the US here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Twin-Henckels-Cermax-M66-9-5-Chefs-Knife-NEW-/250873344391) (i'm not associated with the seller in anyway, this thread just prompted me to look on eBay).

tk59
10-16-2011, 08:54 PM
The edge retention is very nice on the Cermax. I haven't had any problems with mine at all. I will say there is more belly on them than I prefer and the blade is odd, heavy and clumsy-feeling. For that reason, I had mine wa-converted and reground by Rottman last year. Now, it's REALLY nice. :D

deanb
10-16-2011, 09:02 PM
I got a 7" (180 mm) Twin Cermax Santoku a few weeks ago from amazon for $130. Couldn't pass it up. I always do research on things I've already bought rather than on things I'm going to buy so right after this knife got here I started looking it up. The core steel is their M66, which I guess is proprietary, is (according to at least one reviewer) zdp-189. Whatever it is it is very hard. The OOTB sharpness is the best I've seen. The bevels are asymmetric (90-10 or 80-20, something like that) and this is a new thing for me. I think I like it.

EdipisReks
10-16-2011, 09:27 PM
fine i bought the eBay knife. i think i'll like it. i've wanted a second stainless gyuto again (i just have the Hattori FH, at the moment). been thinking about another Akifusa, but this'll do.

stevenStefano
10-16-2011, 09:36 PM
The price for that was ridiculously cheap, I hope you like it. Not sure why but I keep thinking of getting one but never have and this thread is re-awakening my desire to get one

NO ChoP!
10-16-2011, 09:58 PM
I have the 240mm gyuto, and must say, it's a great knife. The F&F is top notch, the handle is surprisingly comfy, the balance is well centered. The edge retention is almost unmatched, maybe second to honyakis only. The ZDP steel is a little chippy, maybe comparable to a Tojiro, but if used properly, its not much of a problem. Thinning directly behind edge is a chore, and the cladding is super soft and susceptible to scratching. Plus, I think Zwilling should etch the logos for the higher end knives; not a fan of the printed logo.

I honestly don't know a better value in a western, especially with the zdp steel....

Rottman
10-16-2011, 10:05 PM
The core steel is their M66, which I guess is proprietary, is (according to at least one reviewer) zdp-189. Whatever it is it is very hard.
There was someone on another forum that had a Japanese Zwilling representative verify that the core steel is ZDP-189 on the Twin Cermax and Miyabi 7000 lines. They've changed it on the Morimoto line to SG2.

EdipisReks
10-22-2011, 05:37 PM
i got the 240 Cermax gyuto today. it's pretty nice! a bit handle heavy, but not uncomfortable. came shaving sharp. nice fit and finish. unfortunately i'm selling this to a friend, otherwise i'd be happy to keep it.

scott6452
10-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys, unfortunately its made me even more confused:razz:

So veering off topic slightly if you were to buy a 270 gyuto that will last you a lifetime (budget not really an issue) what would you buy? My only request is a thin knife! And also that it will be used daily in a pro kitchen on poly boards (sorry guys i hope you can feel my pain, damn health inspectors grrr)

On another forum there is a Delbert Ealy 240 damascus in UK that has caught my eye as it is very thin and is near 270 in actual length. Any opinions there? Ooh im soo confused!

Vertigo
10-27-2011, 09:55 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys, unfortunately its made me even more confused:razz:
That happens around here all the time. You are not alone! :D

UglyJoe
10-27-2011, 09:56 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys, unfortunately its made me even more confused:razz:

So veering off topic slightly if you were to buy a 270 gyuto that will last you a lifetime (budget not really an issue) what would you buy? My only request is a thin knife! And also that it will be used daily in a pro kitchen on poly boards (sorry guys i hope you can feel my pain, damn health inspectors grrr)

On another forum there is a Delbert Ealy 240 damascus in UK that has caught my eye as it is very thin and is near 270 in actual length. Any opinions there? Ooh im soo confused!

Hard to say. I might go with Salty's favorite, a 240 honyaki Masamoto. I think the Masamoto has the best profile for an all around knife that I have ever seen.

tk59
10-28-2011, 01:27 AM
...the Masamoto has the best profile for an all around knife that I have ever seen.I have to agree with that but I might see if I could get one made out of some more wear resistant steel, if you really want it to last you a lifetime, lol.