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TDj
10-24-2011, 10:31 AM
someone on KF found this - i'm passing it along:
http://stores.ebay.com/gotfishon43/_i.html?rt=nc&_sid=185121622&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1

Hermes7792
10-24-2011, 10:48 AM
awesome! just bought one, 37 bucks is a hell of a deal... especially with free shipping! thanks a lot!

dough
10-24-2011, 11:51 AM
great deal ashame the bread knives are gone

TDj
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
darn - sorry guys/gals - i thought there were more - didn't mean to post about something and have it be so short-lived! well, at least Hermes got a jump on one (i think it was 37 for the 9" and 53 for the big 'un). damn - i was planning on buying a lot of these later today and giving fruit cake and bread knives for the holidays.

Jim
10-24-2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks for posting it!:D

Hermes7792
10-24-2011, 02:27 PM
darn - sorry guys/gals - i thought there were more - didn't mean to post about something and have it be so short-lived! well, at least Hermes got a jump on one (i think it was 37 for the 9" and 53 for the big 'un). damn - i was planning on buying a lot of these later today and giving fruit cake and bread knives for the holidays.

Yup, how big where the larger ones? I only got a 9"

TDj
10-24-2011, 02:31 PM
10.5"
i got one of them for the sake of getting one, but i've never had such a long bread knife before (i'm using some cuisinart p.o.s.). while i'm sure it'll cut better than the cuisinart, if i have no place to store it, then you'll see it in the b/s/t forum.

Hermes7792
10-24-2011, 02:33 PM
Oh, no biggie. Happy with my purchase. I heard these are pretty good bread knives. Was considering the tojro it's ones but I couldn't pass this up.

TDj
10-24-2011, 02:37 PM
Was considering the tojro it's ones but I couldn't pass this up.
Yea, I tried to figure out why the tojiro's were so revered. All I was told was "it cuts really well" and then I was shown some pretty cool videos. Be that as it may, I'm not sure why it cuts so much better than say, a Shun, or Forschner. As far as I know (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the MAC is the only one with scallops?

Eamon Burke
10-24-2011, 05:54 PM
Yea, I tried to figure out why the tojiro's were so revered. All I was told was "it cuts really well" and then I was shown some pretty cool videos. Be that as it may, I'm not sure why it cuts so much better than say, a Shun, or Forschner. As far as I know (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the MAC is the only one with scallops?

Nah the Tojiro is scalloped. It's cheap, and got a design that was custom made by forumites. Kind of a group "what would be the ideal bread knife" thing.

Amon-Rukh
10-24-2011, 06:06 PM
Well, thanks for the link anyway--bread knives or not! I might pick up a knife or two to give as gifts come the holiday season.

Dubsy
10-25-2011, 10:03 AM
Yea, I tried to figure out why the tojiro's were so revered. All I was told was "it cuts really well" and then I was shown some pretty cool videos. Be that as it may, I'm not sure why it cuts so much better than say, a Shun, or Forschner. As far as I know (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the MAC is the only one with scallops? as far as blades go the MAC and Tojiro are almost identical. same shape/scallop/lenth/similiar steel (both molybdenum),only real difference is the handles. i got the tojiro, and love it.

oh, and curiously enough Wusthof makes a scalloped bread knife too.
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/wusthof-gourmet/super-slicer-p1681

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 11:35 AM
Can one of you guys who have the Tojiro shoot a picture of the teeth/scallops? The one semi-close up that I saw on this looked more like rounded teeth than scallops like the MAC has. I'd just like to see a more clear close up if possible.

TDj
10-25-2011, 11:41 AM
as far as blades go the MAC and Tojiro are almost identical. same shape/scallop/lenth/similiar steel (both molybdenum),only real difference is the handles. i got the tojiro, and love it.
There might be one other main difference: the tojiro has a right-biased edge grind - kind of like Shun's (and Cuisinart's) knives. The MAC, I believe (I'll get it in a few days) is not ground like that. I'm not sure if that makes one "better" or "worse" than the other, but it is a point of difference (if memory serves me correct).

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 12:06 PM
The MAC is a righty too.

TDj
10-25-2011, 12:17 PM
then i withdraw my comment.

Keith Neal
10-25-2011, 01:04 PM
This is a bit off-subject, but I sharpen my no-name bread knife on a stone, ignoring the groove portion. It seems to work. Does anyone else do this? Is it adviseable?

Keith

add
10-25-2011, 01:25 PM
darn - sorry guys/gals - i thought there were more - didn't mean to post about something and have it be so short-lived! well, at least Hermes got a jump on one (i think it was 37 for the 9" and 53 for the big 'un). damn - i was planning on buying a lot of these later today and giving fruit cake and bread knives for the holidays.

He may be out of the bread knives but some chainsaw parts remain to tackle the fruitcake... :pirate1:

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 02:15 PM
This is a bit off-subject, but I sharpen my no-name bread knife on a stone, ignoring the groove portion. It seems to work. Does anyone else do this? Is it adviseable?

Keith


If you only sharpen the reverse side (which I'm assuming you mean?) the serration pattern will eventually disappear.

Eamon Burke
10-25-2011, 02:47 PM
If you only sharpen the reverse side (which I'm assuming you mean?) the serration pattern will eventually disappear.

An added bonus!

Just kidding, I love my sandwich knife.

here's the scallops:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KGBhFWt2dsc/TqcFkKrOkfI/AAAAAAAAASI/HWxrGl2gcqA/s400/2011-10-25%25252013.49.25.jpg

This is the backside, I probably shouldn't have taken the picture against a metal background, lol. it is the brushed metal on the bottom. note there is a slight convexity From where the blade was slack belted.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FjOqgNY3aso/TqcFxmZD4FI/AAAAAAAAASQ/mBbB7vAeNbo/s400/2011-10-25%25252013.50.27.jpg

supposed to be DP steel, but I find it is far less chippy than my dp gyuto.

Jim
10-25-2011, 05:03 PM
Here is the Photo from Ebay- not much detail.

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=30463 (http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=30463)

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 06:22 PM
So going by Eamon's photo the new Tojiro bread knife is actually dull/rolled tip serrations (not scalloped) which is what I was thinking they were based on photos. This really clears this up for me, thanks Eamon.

Eamon Burke
10-25-2011, 07:12 PM
how is the mac Different?

TDj
10-25-2011, 07:27 PM
stole this from Chad Ward. I hope he doesn't mind:
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/fbbuploads/1214486255-Scalloped-Granton-Serrated.jpg
MAC on top. No idea what the others are. I think we need a head-to-head if we actually wanted to see a difference b/t Tojiro and MAC because they look pretty darn similar (I'll have a MAC in a few days so I'll put up picx). But, Mark himself did say that the Tojiros are NOT exactly like the MAC on the edge - "The edge is more aggressively serrated on the right side - more like the Shun bread knife ..." - nearly verbatim from his youtube spot when he's talking about Tojiro vs. MAC (about 1 min in).

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 09:21 PM
how is the mac Different?


The MAC is a reverse pattern to the Tojiro. If we could get someone to morph the 2 edge pictures into one we could show the difference. For now you can see that the Tojiro has a pointy part hanging low or protruding (like a standard serration tip - just rounder) while the MAC has a crescent shaped scallop hanging or protruding.

Wagstaff
10-25-2011, 09:53 PM
Any idea what practical difference the reverse pattern will make in this case?

Like.. the more "aggressive" serrations might leave more crumbs on bread, but be better for a pineapple? (Or something?) Is there any reason to get the more expensive of the two knives?

Eamon Burke
10-25-2011, 10:14 PM
The MAC is a reverse pattern to the Tojiro. If we could get someone to morph the 2 edge pictures into one we could show the difference. For now you can see that the Tojiro has a pointy part hanging low or protruding (like a standard serration tip - just rounder) while the MAC has a crescent shaped scallop hanging or protruding.

I think you are looking at my second photo inversely! I realized afterward I shouldn't have taken the photo on a metal background. The knife is the bottom half of the photo, the metal on the top half is my work counter. The edge of the Tojiro is an even sine wave.

One difference is that the portion of the scallops closer to the spine of the knife looks pointier on the MAC than the Tojiro...sort of like the MAC has scallops aligned next to each other and the Tojiro is basically a wavy line.

Dubsy
10-25-2011, 10:48 PM
supposed to be DP steel, but I find it is far less chippy than my dp gyuto.
Its actually molybdenum steel, not the cladded VG10 on DP's

Andrew H
10-25-2011, 11:17 PM
I think you are looking at my second photo inversely! I realized afterward I shouldn't have taken the photo on a metal background. The knife is the bottom half of the photo, the metal on the top half is my work counter. The edge of the Tojiro is an even sine wave.

One difference is that the portion of the scallops closer to the spine of the knife looks pointier on the MAC than the Tojiro...sort of like the MAC has scallops aligned next to each other and the Tojiro is basically a wavy line.

Gotta love it when someone uses sine waves to describe the shape of the edge on a knife :ggodjob:

Dave Martell
10-25-2011, 11:47 PM
I don't know Eamon, I looked again and they seem different to me. Hmmmm.....

unkajonet
10-26-2011, 12:51 AM
Here's the Tojiro, front & back, if that helps...

214221432144

TDj
10-26-2011, 09:02 AM
don't worry dave - you'll get to see a MAC up close when I send mine for rehandling :razz: (if it ever comes in the mail ...)

Eamon Burke
10-26-2011, 09:30 AM
It is different, just not in any way pointy..sorta the opposite. The mac doesnt have the inverted wave, tje scallops touvh each other directly. This might be better, might provide more grab. I want one to compare with, but domt have the cash!

As far as sharpening goes, the slackbelted convex backside on the tojiro will likely make sharpening a huge pain. flat back wouldnt be a great idea though, it already has a steering tendency. Good thing im only cutting sandwiches, and dont have to sharpen it yet!

tk59
10-26-2011, 10:19 AM
...supposed to be DP steel, but I find it is far less chippy than my dp gyuto. The steel is some moly stainless (maybe vanadium, too). It is not "DP" steel, iirc.

Dave Martell
10-26-2011, 10:49 AM
Here's the Tojiro, front & back, if that helps...

214221432144


Thanks E!

Dave Martell
10-26-2011, 10:50 AM
don't worry dave - you'll get to see a MAC up close when I send mine for rehandling :razz: (if it ever comes in the mail ...)


As long as it's full tang I'm into it. :thumbsup:

TDj
10-26-2011, 10:56 AM
It is different, just not in any way pointy..sorta the opposite. The mac doesnt have the inverted wave, tje scallops touvh each other directly. This might be better, might provide more grab.

Who writes for "cookingcache.com"? They claim that the tojiro ITK is better (which is totally fine to state if you believe it) - but because I don't know who it is that's doing the reviewing, I don't quite know whether the review means anything.

Dave Martell
10-26-2011, 11:21 AM
That's weird, it seems like all of the knives reviewed on cookingcache.com all link to CKTG

Cadillac J
10-26-2011, 04:15 PM
Who writes for "cookingcache.com"?

Is it a variety of people? For some reason, I thought I remember reading Mr. Broida's review of a Sugimoto suji on there a few years ago.

tgraypots
10-26-2011, 05:46 PM
http://getfile7.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/temp-2011-10-26/HHFubFHnHCCljGekHHEhmFauBkevkiCcaqvADnHrmdtBfDvFai rtnzGGiklD/10-25-11breadknife.jpg.scaled1000.jpg
I've had a MAC for years. Works great for it's intended purpose.

mr drinky
10-26-2011, 06:00 PM
Yeah, I wonder about cookingcache. The sight looks suspicious to me. I spot checked some of the 'articles' and one is just a review that is on Mark's site, and several of the articles appear to be written by forum members (KF and FoodieForums). And as Dave said, all links point to a certain place.

I'm sure Mark has something to do with the content on cookingcache. It also seems to be closely linked to this blog (http://goodgrape.typepad.com/celebrate/).

The formatting of the articles is off, but a lot of the content from this site as in cookingcache. Regardless, both cookingcache and that blog look like marketing fronts to establish content and push buyers to a site. And I don't buy the "team testing" that is claimed in the articles. If it were legit, there would be some explanation of who that team is.

k.

Wagstaff
10-26-2011, 08:51 PM
This has been an enlightening thread -- so much I didn't know about the history of sharing on the web, being a johnny-come-lately. I did, just because of google searches, find cookingcache knife reviews before I found forums... and I did notice that they were extremely (extremely) Tojiro-happy. Best bread knife, best paring knife, best best best... which I found supremely suspicious even coming at it will full naivete.

Dave Martell
10-26-2011, 09:22 PM
I obviously have no idea what the deal with Cookingcache is but there's lots of sites on the net like this that I know exist just to snag and direct you towards products. There's many companies that insert your content all over the web for a small fee too, they drop your content into sites just like this one, or what this one appears to be. This is similar to buying yourself more Facebook likes/fans, just more advertising hoopla.

JohnnyChance
10-27-2011, 02:33 AM
I obviously have no idea what the deal with Cookingcache is but there's lots of sites on the net like this that I know exist just to snag and direct you towards products. There's many companies that insert your content all over the web for a small fee too, they drop your content into sites just like this one, or what this one appears to be. This is similar to buying yourself more Facebook likes/fans, just more advertising hoopla.

Kinda like the spammers we get who put links in their signatures to blogs that are solely about nail guns and where to buy them. I guess if you put out enough links, someone will be dumb enough to click through your site and buy something so you get commission on it.

Dave Martell
10-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Yeah exactly, it's cast a broad net and troll and eventually you'll catch that one fish that you need, although you disturb the life of many others in the process.

wenus2
10-27-2011, 01:11 PM
http://getfile7.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/temp-2011-10-26/HHFubFHnHCCljGekHHEhmFauBkevkiCcaqvADnHrmdtBfDvFai rtnzGGiklD/10-25-11breadknife.jpg.scaled1000.jpg
I've had a MAC for years. Works great for it's intended purpose.

nice crumb Tom

tgraypots
10-27-2011, 06:40 PM
Thanks! I enjoy bread so much more since I started making my own.

TDj
11-02-2011, 07:48 PM
The MAC is a reverse pattern to the Tojiro. If we could get someone to morph the 2 edge pictures into one we could show the difference. For now you can see that the Tojiro has a pointy part hanging low or protruding (like a standard serration tip - just rounder) while the MAC has a crescent shaped scallop hanging or protruding. So my MAC bread knives just arrived - and indeed they are as dave describes (i.e. different than the tojiro). But now the REAL question remains: do I keep the 220 and sell the 270, or do I keep the 270 and sell the 220? The scallops are identical. There is a difference in that the 270 is far taller and has that curved/upswept blade. My knifeblock will only hold a 220 (so I'd have to get a cover for the 270 and stick it in a drawer if I kept it) ... but the 270 is the "ideal bread knife" from way-back-when. What would you do?

Mingooch
11-02-2011, 09:03 PM
sell me the 270? LOL

Eamon Burke
11-02-2011, 09:24 PM
So my MAC bread knives just arrived - and indeed they are as dave describes (i.e. different than the tojiro). But now the REAL question remains: do I keep the 220 and sell the 270, or do I keep the 270 and sell the 220? The scallops are identical. There is a difference in that the 270 is far taller and has that curved/upswept blade. My knifeblock will only hold a 220 (so I'd have to get a cover for the 270 and stick it in a drawer if I kept it) ... but the 270 is the "ideal bread knife" from way-back-when. What would you do?

When in doubt, always keep the bigger one.

jm2hill
11-02-2011, 09:30 PM
When in doubt, always keep the bigger one.

+1. I've always regretted buying a 210 gyuto. They have all been turned into beater's or gifts/family donations. Nice to have but not the right size.

Wagstaff
11-02-2011, 10:29 PM
So my MAC bread knives just arrived - and indeed they are as dave describes (i.e. different than the tojiro). .... [snip]

So what difference does this difference make? I've heard them described as reverse of each other (though I can't see that in the photos); also one having the "more aggressive" serrations (scallops)... is that true? If it's true, is that better? Worse? Better for some things worse for others? .... Irrelevant?

That is if anyone has actually cut with both. Or even has a well-thought out guess, I'd be interested to know.

Dave Martell
11-02-2011, 11:05 PM
So my MAC bread knives just arrived - and indeed they are as dave describes (i.e. different than the tojiro). But now the REAL question remains: do I keep the 220 and sell the 270, or do I keep the 270 and sell the 220? The scallops are identical. There is a difference in that the 270 is far taller and has that curved/upswept blade. My knifeblock will only hold a 220 (so I'd have to get a cover for the 270 and stick it in a drawer if I kept it) ... but the 270 is the "ideal bread knife" from way-back-when. What would you do?


Thanks for confirming this Terry. Oh and keep them both! :D

dmccurtis
11-03-2011, 02:00 AM
Keep the 270. You'll appreciate the length when slicing some 1kg boules or miches.

Jim
11-03-2011, 07:48 AM
My MAC 270 arrived as well, its a pretty standard factory knife. Lots of rough grinds and the handle is just a couple of slabs of wood.

Cuts very nice, I am a fan of that blade shape on a slicer.