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Salty dog
10-27-2011, 03:15 PM
Mario dropped in last night to drop off his latest for a look-see.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a442/Saltys_knives/mario1.jpg

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a442/Saltys_knives/mario2.jpg

More to come.

aaronsgibson
10-27-2011, 03:29 PM
Nice looker. Can't wait to see how it preforms.

WildBoar
10-27-2011, 03:44 PM
x2. <Looking for 'impatient smilie'> :-)

Salty dog
10-27-2011, 04:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWMh-Bsrg6o

Andrew H
10-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Very impressive knife Mario. I don't think you're getting that one back....

Eamon Burke
10-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Wow, looks like a nice grind on that thing.

Plus, yes--that is a mirror finish, no matter how you cut it.

rahimlee54
10-27-2011, 05:24 PM
Who is Mario? Knife looks good.

Salty dog
10-27-2011, 05:26 PM
RRlover

AMP01
10-27-2011, 05:37 PM
That knife not only looks Sweet, it performs like a champ as well!

Great knife skills as usual Salty!

WildBoar
10-27-2011, 06:13 PM
great video -- I really like the tomato peel test. That knife sure performed like a champ, and had zero sticking issues. Very nice job!

tgraypots
10-27-2011, 07:09 PM
I'm impressed.

obtuse
10-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Nice job rrlover!

RRLOVER
10-27-2011, 08:36 PM
Thanx for doing the video........It looks like it worked OK for you.

Pensacola Tiger
10-27-2011, 08:55 PM
Nice job, Mario, nice job.

Lefty
10-27-2011, 09:06 PM
And you aren't taking orders yet? You're crazy! Great knife, Mario!

Salty dog
10-27-2011, 09:10 PM
Thanx for doing the video........It looks like it worked OK for you.

Yeah, it did.

Marko Tsourkan
10-27-2011, 09:20 PM
Thanx for doing the video........It looks like it worked OK for you.

haha. Modesty is still a virtue. Great job.

M

markk
10-27-2011, 09:26 PM
nice knife, good video.

WildBoar
10-27-2011, 10:20 PM
Get any PMs from Oivind yet? :wink:

RRLOVER
10-27-2011, 10:54 PM
Get any PMs from Oivind yet? :wink:

I am sure he is keeping Marko busy.

Marko Tsourkan
10-27-2011, 10:56 PM
I am sure he is keeping Marko busy.

You have no idea about Oivind's appetite. :) The man can eat.

What are the specs on your knife? Same as Carter's?

M

RRLOVER
10-27-2011, 11:20 PM
What are the specs on your knife? Same as Carter's?

M

I was going for Shigi geometry with a Carter profile.It's 2.79mm over the heel tapering to a .8mm tip.

Marko Tsourkan
10-27-2011, 11:28 PM
Cool. I like thicker at the heel knives. Definitely no flex at the handle. :)

Mike Davis
10-27-2011, 11:38 PM
Beautiful Mario, and as usual...Great knife skills Salty. Is that the CPM154 knife i saw at Randy's? Either way, beautiful job, Two thumbs up brother :D

RRLOVER
10-27-2011, 11:52 PM
Yes it is CPM154 that was HT by Brad at Peters HT to a hardness of 61.5 I was very happy with how it sharpened up. Now I just have to finish 6 more:biggrin:

tk59
10-28-2011, 01:22 AM
So how do you like the knife, Mario? Do you feel the grind is an improvement over your previous work? Looks pretty good, from here, btw. :thumbsup:

JohnnyChance
10-28-2011, 02:17 AM
I was going for Shigi geometry with a Carter profile.It's 2.79mm over the heel tapering to a .8mm tip.

You did a concave grind on the upper half of the blade face, or are you referring more to the thicker spine the Shiges have?

Good to see youve come over from the flat-grind-dark-side. :D

RRLOVER
10-28-2011, 07:38 AM
So how do you like the knife, Mario? Do you feel the grind is an improvement over your previous work? Looks pretty good, from here, btw. :thumbsup:

Salty pointed out a tweak I need to do.I am very impressed with the CPM154,this is my first blade ever with that steel.I would say it is an improvement if you like that style of grind,which I do.

RRLOVER
10-28-2011, 07:43 AM
You did a concave grind on the upper half of the blade face, or are you referring more to the thicker spine the Shiges have?

Good to see youve come over from the flat-grind-dark-side. :D

Did you mean convex? The right side of the blade should be about 90% convex and the left side is about 75%,I did not just convex the edge.

tk59
10-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Did you mean convex? The right side of the blade should be about 90% convex and the left side is about 75%,I did not just convex the edge.No, he meant concave. He's saying Shigs aren't convex all the way to the top of the knife. The top half is slightly concave.

Marko Tsourkan
10-28-2011, 10:39 AM
No, he meant concave. He's saying Shigs aren't convex all the way to the top of the knife. The top half is slightly concave.

I don't think anybody (including Mario) is replicating Shigefusa grind. You need to make 7' radius platen to grind the concave, and it really doesn't make much sense if you are starting with a thinner stock (under 4/16"). The concave grind was meant to reduce weight of a knife as much as to improve cutting performance.

Convex grind performs very well and is very suitable for knives made from thinner stock - 4.5mm and down, so why bother and make more work for oneself? The downside of concave grind is that you get wedging if you cut stuff that is taller than your blade, like cabbage.

M

RRLOVER
10-28-2011, 07:07 PM
No, he meant concave. He's saying Shigs aren't convex all the way to the top of the knife. The top half is slightly concave.

That's a silly question.I have owned five different Shigi's and they all did not have a slight concave.

tk59
10-28-2011, 07:58 PM
That's a silly question.I have owned five different Shigi's and they all did not have a slight concave.I didn't think so either but I've checked two of them in the last month and both have a slightly concave section by the spine, according to my straight edge. Next time you see one, do me a favor and take a straight edge to the face and let me know what you see.

Marko Tsourkan
10-28-2011, 08:33 PM
Actually, all Shigefusa gyuto I looked at (with a straightedge) were hollow-ground. It's invisible to a naked eye, but put a straightedge to the side and you will see the hollow. It runs from the spine to about 3/8 from the edge. For those of you who wondered how Shigefusa can have a beefy spine and thin midsection, this is your answer.

I approximated a radius of the hollow to be about 80". It's done with a sen (a metal scraper), not a wheel. One can do it with a custom radius platen on 2x72 grinder.

M

Salty dog
10-28-2011, 08:44 PM
The vintage Dexter-Russel I'm refurbing has that grind. (and many others) I see two reasons. Lighter weight and it brings the center of gravity down.

tk59
10-28-2011, 09:56 PM
It also makes it tougher to stick to.

El Pescador
10-28-2011, 09:59 PM
It also makes it tougher to stick to.

You need to stop cutting glue sticks

RRLOVER
10-28-2011, 10:29 PM
http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t359/mario164/004-43.jpg

This is the Shigi that I loved and there is not a concave grind near the spine.

UglyJoe
10-29-2011, 12:09 AM
Salty, you still have that Shig gyuto? This would be a spot where your clay test would be very useful!

Salty dog
10-29-2011, 01:09 AM
nope

memorael
10-29-2011, 02:03 AM
godamn... so much pron.

Marko Tsourkan
10-29-2011, 05:32 AM
I will try to take a picture of the concave.

M

JohnnyChance
10-29-2011, 01:46 PM
That's a silly question.I have owned five different Shigi's and they all did not have a slight concave.

Still have any? Maybe the westerns are different, but put a flat edge on the blade face and hold it up to a light. There is a hollow on the upper half of the blade. Slight, but it's there.

NO ChoP!
10-29-2011, 04:58 PM
I wouldn't argue with Mario, he has forearms like Popeye...lol


Nice job btw

RRLOVER
10-29-2011, 06:47 PM
Still have any? Maybe the westerns are different, but put a flat edge on the blade face and hold it up to a light. There is a hollow on the upper half of the blade. Slight, but it's there.

I know the wa's have it, it was silly to think I have the ability to do it.I should have phrased my answer better.I was attempting to get the geometry style of my three favorites.....mizuno,watanabe,and shigi.

Eamon Burke
10-29-2011, 09:43 PM
I'll get some clay soon enough.

Mine is concave at the top half--I didn't know until I started taking a fingerstone to it, and it's a fairly large one--it covered enough area of the blade that I wasn't hitting part of the face.

It's because Iizuka san does not use a belt-sander, so it's going to have a slight natural concavity on large flat portions.

And yes, it does stick when it is in very large things.

oivind_dahle
10-29-2011, 10:11 PM
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/files/homer_drool_702026_146.gif

Mario: Congrats!
Im very impressed. I knew you had the interest of making knives, I just didn't know you where that good. You really took me by surprise.
It was completely a breath of fresh air :) Thanks! :)

tk59
10-29-2011, 11:45 PM
...It's because Iizuka san does not use a belt-sander, so it's going to have a slight natural concavity on large flat portions...According to Marko (and I think he'd know), they use a scraping tool to shape the faces of the blade.

tgraypots
10-30-2011, 09:29 AM
Can someone elaborate on the use of a "scraping tool" vs. a belt grinder please? What is a scraping tool in this situation?

SpikeC
10-30-2011, 02:05 PM
It is like a file with no teeth. The edge at the end of the bar is sharpened at a 90 angle and pushed against the item to be scraped. Thin shavings can be produced this was. It is a common method of flattening cast iron surfaces. You put some engineers blue on a true surface, rub the item on it to reveal high spots, then scrape them off with the scraper. This would not work well on a piece of hardened steel, I don't think!

Eamon Burke
10-30-2011, 04:38 PM
It is like a file with no teeth. The edge at the end of the bar is sharpened at a 90 angle and pushed against the item to be scraped. Thin shavings can be produced this was. It is a common method of flattening cast iron surfaces. You put some engineers blue on a true surface, rub the item on it to reveal high spots, then scrape them off with the scraper. This would not work well on a piece of hardened steel, I don't think!

Yeah, it's called a "Sen" and it's a woodworking tool, but at the Shigefusa workshop, they said they use it to flatten the Ura...This sounds mighty strange to me. Maybe they do it before HT? I dunno. I was under the impression this was not done on gyutos, but perhaps it is.

Marko Tsourkan
10-30-2011, 04:41 PM
I think we are getting off topic here. We don't need to dwell on how Shigefusa make their knives.
This post is about Mario's knife, not Shigefusa. :)

M

tgraypots
10-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Good lookin' knife Mario. Sorry to hijack your thread. My apologies.

Eamon Burke
11-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Is it just the picture/me, or are the facets on this thing's wa-handle slightly concave?

RRLOVER
11-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Is it just the picture/me, or are the facets on this thing's wa-handle slightly concave?

http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t359/mario164/001-60.jpg

It has to be the pic.I use an engineer plate and hand sand.I would have to say this does have some flaws.

Eamon Burke
11-01-2011, 11:02 PM
Well don't tell us what they are, for heaven's sake! It's a fine performing knife, and you aren't taking half a year's salary from someone for it. Just keep it mum.

mr drinky
11-02-2011, 05:46 AM
Is it just the picture/me, or are the facets on this thing's wa-handle slightly concave?


Funny. That was the first thing I thought when I saw the photos too.

k.

mpukas
11-04-2011, 12:44 AM
Beautiful knife Mario - very impressive indeed! Really impressed w/ the grind.

Salty - can you share you sharpening/stropping sequence on how you got that thing that sharp? Correct me I'm wrong, but that looks like the sharpest knife-weight tomato test you've posted so far.

Also, what's the edge retention of the steel like? How long does that sharp edge last, and do you find it takes longer or not to get dull? Cheers! mpp

Salty dog
11-04-2011, 12:48 AM
Mario sharpened it up to 4000. I did a 6 surface strop on it.

Haven't used it enough to make a call on edge retention.