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View Full Version : Plunge Line or Not on Wa Handled Knives



Marko Tsourkan
11-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Those of you who make wa hanled knives, do you guys grind with plunge lines or akin to how Japanese do (with some exceptions, namely Shigefusa)?

M

Mike Davis
11-01-2011, 10:25 AM
I had this discussion with Salty at the hammer in. He said that the blade should not have them.
Edit: On a side not...I did a blended, almost curved plunge on my suji and blended it so there really is no plunge line. Looks pretty good to me

Eamon Burke
11-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Pardon my ignorance...what is a plunge line?

Marko Tsourkan
11-01-2011, 05:07 PM
Pardon my ignorance...what is a plunge line?

Not sure exactly how to define it, but I think it's a transition point (or line) between a tang and the blade (with whatever geometry it has) past the heel.

Here are many variants of a plunge line on hunters.

http://www.tomasrucker.com/knives/Custom_Handmade_Knives_-_Tomas_Rucker.htm

When the tang is in uniform thickness, the handle installation is clean.

M

HHH Knives
11-01-2011, 05:42 PM
A pic or actually 2 of with and without for ya johndoughy.. But to answer your question, no plunge line. is best from what everyone has told me. Especially on a kitchen knife

Here are 2 very similar knives, one with a plunge line and one without..

Its really a matter of preference, as I dont think it will make a differenc in performance.

Eamon Burke
11-01-2011, 06:58 PM
Doesn't Mr. Ealy have a plunge line on, like...all of his knives?

Good to know what that thing is called. I've never actually used a kitchen knife with one, now that I think about it. Wonder how it would feel.

RRLOVER
11-01-2011, 07:38 PM
It would look better without.It would be easier and cleaner to install the wa handle.Are you think like Hoss's ITK wa plunge line.

JohnnyChance
11-01-2011, 09:12 PM
I prefer them with aesthetically, but I do have a couple of knives with plunge lines and they are comfortable and don't bother me.

Delbert Ealy
11-01-2011, 09:59 PM
Doesn't Mr. Ealy have a plunge line on, like...all of his knives?

Good to know what that thing is called. I've never actually used a kitchen knife with one, now that I think about it. Wonder how it would feel.


My previous thin knives did, and in the larger custom knife world they are a sign of quality when done properly. It is common on a custom knife to check the plunges first to see if they match. My newer knives have no plunge, there really isn't a need for one. Like was previosly mentioned they are the transition point between the full thickness of the blade and the bevel.
Del
A pic of a damascus knife with the plunge and one of my recent knives without

Eamon Burke
11-01-2011, 10:01 PM
It is common on a custom knife to check the plunges first to see if they match.

That makes sense, and is cool to know.

jm2hill
11-02-2011, 12:41 AM
One of the very features that attracted me to Del's knives were his plunge lines.

Even if he doesn't do them anymore :viking:!

Delbert Ealy
11-02-2011, 12:50 AM
They have not disappeared from my work entirely, I have not done many sujis but a full flat grind is not an undisirable quality for a protein knife. You may see them again there.
Del

Marko Tsourkan
11-02-2011, 08:28 AM
I don't use plunge line in my knives, but I also like uniform thickness of a tang for a clean handle installation, so I have been working on a transition.

PierreRodrigue
11-02-2011, 09:10 AM
I also don't use a plunge line. A longer blended transition looks cleaner. On hunters, or folders though, I agree, that is one of the things I want to get perfect.

The hekler
11-02-2011, 10:11 AM
I love the look of a well executed plunge line. It was one of the things that drew me to Del's knives. I kinda wish he kept them for his current run, but that just gives me a reason to have a custom commissioned in the future ;-).

TB_London
11-02-2011, 10:43 AM
Does it add some rigidity to the handle - blade transition? Seems like there may be some functionality on very thin knives

Dave Martell
11-02-2011, 10:50 AM
I have a plunge line (of sorts) on my westerns but I hide it by lining it up at the front of the bolster. From that point forward is blade grind and that point back is a tapered tang. Slightly complicated but allows for a stiffer handle to blade union and flat tang surfaces for scale fit.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2233&d=1320245431

Andrew H
11-02-2011, 12:59 PM
They have not disappeared from my work entirely, I have not done many sujis but a full flat grind is not an undisirable quality for a protein knife. You may see them again there.
Del

Pardon my ignorance, does this mean that you cannot have a plunge line on a convex grind knife?

Delbert Ealy
11-02-2011, 11:47 PM
Pardon my ignorance, does this mean that you cannot have a plunge line on a convex grind knife?

Andrew,
The way i am doing my convex grinds, my grinding does not go to the bottom of the tang, that means that there is not a need for a transition(read plunge line) because the full thickness of the material carries from the tang at its full widthup through the upper portion on the back of the knife. Other makers may handle this part differently, but this is how I do it, and they could possibly have a plunge line if they choose.
Del

PS this is alot harder to explain in words than to show, with one of my knives in hand I could show you in 3 seconds.

Andrew H
11-03-2011, 12:09 AM
Andrew,
The way i am doing my convex grinds, my grinding does not go to the bottom of the tang, that means that there is not a need for a transition(read plunge line) because the full thickness of the material carries from the tang at its full widthup through the upper portion on the back of the knife. Other makers may handle this part differently, but this is how I do it, and they could possibly have a plunge line if they choose.
Del

PS this is alot harder to explain in words than to show, with one of my knives in hand I could show you in 3 seconds.

I had to read it twice, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks Del.

UglyJoe
11-04-2011, 10:11 AM
Those of you who make wa hanled knives, do you guys grind with plunge lines or akin to how Japanese do (with some exceptions, namely Shigefusa)?

M

Interested in what you mean by Shig being an exception. I assume you mean something like this:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/BillyTwilight/389267247.jpg

Where there is a quick and dramatic taper from the tang as it leaves the knife handle to the spine just above the heel. Is this considered a plunge line?

Delbert Ealy
11-04-2011, 12:11 PM
Interested in what you mean by Shig being an exception. I assume you mean something like this:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/BillyTwilight/389267247.jpg

Where there is a quick and dramatic taper from the tang as it leaves the knife handle to the spine just above the heel. Is this considered a plunge line?

No that knife does not have a plunge line, it has a taper. Its the difference between driving over a mild hill and driving off a cliff, the plunge.
Del

Dave Martell
11-04-2011, 01:13 PM
Good description Del! :)

Marko Tsourkan
11-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Interested in what you mean by Shig being an exception. I assume you mean something like this:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/BillyTwilight/389267247.jpg

Where there is a quick and dramatic taper from the tang as it leaves the knife handle to the spine just above the heel. Is this considered a plunge line?

Right, the transition can be done with a plunge line or a gradual grind like in the picture above, though this is an extreme example as the transition is on one side only (it's a yanagi) and tangs on Shigeufusa are quite thick (about 6mm). I settled on the same approach, though the steel I use is much thinner (3.5mm) so the transition is much shallower.

M