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View Full Version : Recommendation for a stone to carry in my bag?



jgraeff
11-04-2011, 02:27 PM
So I'm looking for a stone i can either leave at work or carry with me, i was thinking like a 2-3k stone but then again I'm not sure.

I currently have a dmt xxc, gesshin 400, king 1k, 6k, and a takashima.

I think the 1k is a little too course for what i normally like, and the 6k is a little too refined after a good hard day or two if i need to touch it up while at work.

Id be using it when it starts to feel dull, and stropping isn't really bringing it back.

I normally sharpen at this point but today i was at work at 5am and really needed a stone, needles to say it was a rough day with a dull knife.

Id like something light and smaller if possible so that my bag wouldn't be super heavy but then again i want something that is of good quality.

tk59
11-04-2011, 02:38 PM
I've never used a shapton but that's probably where I'd go, in your position...

mainaman
11-04-2011, 03:30 PM
3k Chosera,
4/8k Norton combo, or just the 4k if you do not care to polish to 8k
I have the 4k GS but not very happy with it for knives.
Those are the stones in that range that I have tried so far.

SeanRogerPierce
11-04-2011, 03:48 PM
3k Chosera. Very fast und very nice edge.

mpukas
11-04-2011, 04:46 PM
GS stones are small, light, splash-n-go, very quick, very hard and don't need flattening often. I just brought mine back east to visit my folks and sharpened some of my mom's (German) knives. They are really short so they need some type of holder unless you've got an elevated base to put them on. I'm not saying they are the best stones for kithcen knives, as I've heard many people don't like them, but it's all I've got so far. They are convenient and I can make a very sharp edge very quickly. I have 1k, 4k, and 8k. 4k edge is quite toothy and suitable for kitchen work; I like the 8k edge better though. Often I just do quick touch ups on the 8k. Maybe a 6k would suite your needs?

Eamon Burke
11-04-2011, 04:46 PM
Shapton pro 2k. Best stone in that line, aggressive needs no soaking. If you can soak, go with the rika.

Schtoo
11-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Shapton Glass 3k, 4K or 4K(S).

Only because they're light, compact, splash and go and they'll work. Because they're effectively immune to water, they'll not take up water and if you put one away damp, it's not going to kill it. They're not bad at this grit level either. I'd highly recommend keeping it in a Shapton Pro case to protect it somewhat. You can fit 2 of most GS in a Pro case, so you might be able to stick in a 1K as well, just in case you need it. The 1K isn't bad at all.

The 4K(S) is a polishing type stone in that the grit breaks down somewhat in use. If you don't catch the edge at the point where it's just starting to drop off, then this one might not be best.

I'm no fan of Glass Stones at all, but in your situation they're ideal. And they do work.

HTH,

Stu.

apicius9
11-04-2011, 08:01 PM
Had to laugh, I just came over from a photo forum where people discussed how to make their bags lighter and here people add stones to their bags :wink:

Stefan

Eamon Burke
11-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Had to laugh, I just came over from a photo forum where people discussed how to make their bags lighter and here people add stones to their bags :wink:

Stefan
Haha hahahahaha


I only have the 500x glass stone....I won't be buying more. it feels terrible and loads FAST.

Eamon Burke
11-04-2011, 08:27 PM
You know, a small natural would probably actually be best.

Seb
11-04-2011, 10:51 PM
I can see why some people object to GlassStones, especially if their first waterstone was a King or something like a King.

Kings and GS are like chalk and cheese. But my first 1K was a GS and I would take it over the King brown brick 1K any day of the week in terms of pure performance - GS cuts faster, dishes slower, doesn't need soaking and leaves a more refined edge. And the GS line don't feel weird to me because I am used to them.

I love the way the GS 1K and 4K feel but I can see why some people hate them.

For the OP, I'd recommend the GS 2K or 3K. The GS 3K will be as fast as your King 1K but leave a much more refined finish.

Another plus is that the GS line generally works equally well on carbon or stainless steels and cut fast enough to do a good job on most harder steels as well.

Seb
11-04-2011, 10:53 PM
I only have the 500x glass stone....I won't be buying more. it feels terrible and loads FAST.

I used to have that problem until I changed my technique and started using less pressure.

K-Fed
11-04-2011, 11:21 PM
You know, a small natural would probably actually be best.

I keep a small aoto at work for those quick emergency touch ups and couldn't ask for more from a stone for that purpose. It's splash n go, has great feel, doesn't need frequent flattening, and produces an edge that is a bit toothy, but refined enough that I don't feel like I'm cutting with a hack saw. I leave a strop loaded with 1 micron diamond at work too. For me, also a must have.

mr drinky
11-04-2011, 11:39 PM
Had to laugh, I just came over from a photo forum where people discussed how to make their bags lighter and here people add stones to their bags :wink:

Stefan

Great observation. That is probably the first time I have laughed all day.

k.

apicius9
11-05-2011, 04:44 AM
Great observation. That is probably the first time I have laughed all day.

k.

Hey K., sounds like you had a bad day, I hope things will turn better soon. Here is one of my favorite tunes on grey days: http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=Jz6mrfwNUU4

Stefan

Schtoo
11-05-2011, 06:41 AM
Seb,

I'm curious.

What turned you onto Glass Stones so much that you're convinced they're the best thing since sliced bread?

No, I'm not going to change my opinion of them as only viable in very limited circumstances and only if you're willing to deal with their recalcitrant nature at the same time, but I'm always interested in seeing something from another point of view and maybe there's something I'm not getting out of them that you are.


Stu.

Seb
11-05-2011, 07:14 AM
Not sure what I can add that I haven't already mentioned above.

But one of the pathologies that goes with my particular addiction is 'stone collecting' (as you well know) and I have made it my business to try and master the use of all different kinds of stones for sharpening knives. My least favorites would have to be the King #6K (meh) and the Sigma Power (hard type) #2K (too hard and expensive as hell). I even managed to come to terms with my Shapton M5 #5K and I used to hate this stone!

mainaman
11-05-2011, 07:57 AM
GS stones are small, light, splash-n-go, very quick, very hard and don't need flattening often.
My experience is GS dish just as well as chosera for example. Chosera can be used splash and go with no problem at all.

mainaman
11-05-2011, 08:01 AM
I forgot, Maksim at JNS has a 1/2k misx very very hard synthetic that is a killer stone. Really fast and leaves very nice mirrored edge. It is also pretty cheap, only drawback it needs a soak, other than that it is really good for knives.

Schtoo
11-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Seb,

Ok.

It's just that of late I've noticed that you were often mentioning how wonderful the GS were, and I was wondering if someone was paying you for it. Honestly, that was my thought. Sorry.

Some day I'll collate my feelings on all the stones I do have, more than likely on video. I can accept that what I like doesn't always match what others feel, and how I sharpen stuff is different to what most do.

One thing I am sure about is that Glass Stones are not my favourite and will not be my favourite stones, ever. Too much money, not enough substance and definitely not enough performance to even the score. Perhaps the only Glass Stone of the 6 I have I do like is the 1K, perhaps the #320 too until about a month ago. But the #320 wasn't alone in being cast into the 'meh' basket.

I can agree with the Sigma 2K though. It's not great, but I can fix that at least...

Thanks for the extra info. I know it can take some work to get a handle on some stones, but to be honest, I prefer to not have to baby the dang things when all I want is sharp and NOW!

(Perhaps it's the fact that the 8K and 16K GS are two stones that actually scare me. Whatever is on them is already sharp, and their occasional loss of manners means you end up with something that's very sharp, but no longer under full control. Excuse my language but "screw that!")

Stu.

Eamon Burke
11-05-2011, 10:49 AM
I started sharpening on shapton pros, and the glass stone still feels strange. Learning to master it feels like being a chef and trying to grow an appreciation for campbell's soup.

tk59
11-05-2011, 11:16 AM
...I prefer to not have to baby the dang things when all I want is sharp and NOW!

(Perhaps it's the fact that the 8K and 16K GS are two stones that actually scare me. Whatever is on them is already sharp, and their occasional loss of manners means you end up with something that's very sharp, but no longer under full control. Excuse my language but "screw that!")

Stu.
What are you talking about?

NO ChoP!
11-05-2011, 12:47 PM
I too have been looking for a "one hit wonder" type stone, also thinking between 1k and 4 or 5k.... anyone have experience with the Bester 2000? (Not sure if I want to experiment with the GS, as people seem to love or hate them in the lower grits)

Dave Martell
11-05-2011, 12:52 PM
One of the things that I regret is selling Glasstones for the short while I did. I hadn't had very much experience with them at the time I was offered a group buy opportunity but I took other people's input on them and went for it anyway. After I got a full set myself to use full time I realized I had made a mistake and these weren't something that I wanted to recommend to my customers. If I had to take a Shapton I would prefer Pros over the GS's but even then these aren't user friendly stones by any stretch of the term so I'd not feel great recommending them. I do feel that Shaptons are probably a decent emergency stone to have in a knife kit because (in the case of the GS's anyway) they're thin, light, splash n go, and not so easy to break.

jgraeff
11-05-2011, 01:57 PM
So I'm thinking either a shapton 3-4k probably a pro over a GS or either an Aoto. anyone one any ideas on which would be better suited?

Id like something splash n go but id really like something i don't have to flatten or worry about breaking as much but that is also light.

Seb
11-05-2011, 03:58 PM
One of the things that I regret is selling Glasstones for the short while I did. I hadn't had very much experience with them at the time I was offered a group buy opportunity but I took other people's input on them and went for it anyway. After I got a full set myself to use full time I realized I had made a mistake and these weren't something that I wanted to recommend to my customers. If I had to take a Shapton I would prefer Pros over the GS's but even then these aren't user friendly stones by any stretch of the term so I'd not feel great recommending them. I do feel that Shaptons are probably a decent emergency stone to have in a knife kit because (in the case of the GS's anyway) they're thin, light, splash n go, and not so easy to break.

That's quite true - I bought my first GS#1K from you - so it's all your damn fault!! :)

They were on closeout - and you stated on the site that you did not recommend them.

Seb
11-05-2011, 04:01 PM
(Perhaps it's the fact that the 8K and 16K GS are two stones that actually scare me. Whatever is on them is already sharp, and their occasional loss of manners means you end up with something that's very sharp, but no longer under full control. Excuse my language but "screw that!")

Stu.

Love the 4K and the 16K, like the 1K, hate the 8K.

Seb.

Seb
11-05-2011, 04:04 PM
So I'm thinking either a shapton 3-4k probably a pro over a GS or either an Aoto. anyone one any ideas on which would be better suited?

Id like something splash n go but id really like something i don't have to flatten or worry about breaking as much but that is also light.

If I'm not mistaken, the Shapton Pros come in 1, 1.5, 2 and 5K - but you can get a Chocera or Naniwa SS 3K w/o base.

Seb
11-05-2011, 04:12 PM
What are you talking about?

I think what Stu means is that the GS8 and 16K gets the edge "very sharp, but no longer under full control" - ie so that the blade becomes 'slippery' or starts 'running away' and hence the loss of control. Jon has mentioned this is a reason why most Japanese chefs do not use the ultra-high-grit stones we like to use.

Schtoo
11-05-2011, 05:57 PM
I think what Stu means is that the GS8 and 16K gets the edge "very sharp, but no longer under full control" - ie so that the blade becomes 'slippery' or starts 'running away' and hence the loss of control. Jon has mentioned this is a reason why most Japanese chefs do not use the ultra-high-grit stones we like to use.

Something like that.

If there's more than a mere whisper of steel on the stone, the GS (and the Pro unless they're soaked/soaped) you get either aquaplaning and the edge will jump/slide away or the opposite where the aquaplaning stops and the blade bites into the stone and stops dead. There's a very fine line where if you get the right balance of pressure, moisture and slurry, and the 16K works VERY well.

But by comparison, there's a mess of stones that technically make an edge almost as sharp where the range of 'happy sharpening' is much wider and the stone is far more forgiving to actually use, and at the same time safer and more enjoyable.

(And there's one stone that's much nicer to use, and puts and edge on stuff the GS 16K only wishes it could. Ok, purely academic, but everything is pointing to a marginally sharper edge. Given a choice of easier to use and slightly sharper, why use the GS 16K?)

I find another favourite, the Naniwa Superstone 10K to exhibit a similar trait. It kinda gets away with it by being softer in composition, but even then, it's a bit of a pig of a stone. That's only after a few minutes of use, because I looked at it and thought to myself "screw that" and put it away for a while. It's not going to do anything to my edges that I a dozen or more stones I already have aren't going to do, and while it's cheap enough. Well, it's cheap enough...


Oh, the Japanese chefs who do use high grit synthetic stones tend to opt for porous, soft composition ones. They're controllable, economical and work just as well as anything else. That's only second hand knowledge from a few folks who make/supply such stones though. I'll take pics today to show what the professional sharpeners are actually using.

Speaking of which, I need to go. Miki Hamono Matsuri today. :)

Stu.

Seb
11-05-2011, 06:05 PM
Speaking of which, I need to go. Miki Hamono Matsuri today. :)

Stu.

Does that mean you're finally going to start selling those rustic Blue#2-cored knives?? I want a funayuki!!

Eamon Burke
11-05-2011, 10:17 PM
The more I think about it, a natural is the way to go. I am really wanting to get a nice coticule and learn to work it. You can coax out a huge grit range from one stone with those things. Jnats are great too because they are splash and go, hard as hell, have nicely shaped abrasive grains, and look super cool. Plus they smell nice. It'd be a nice status thing. Imagine a Goodson roll with a jnat slot. Instant street cred.

jgraeff
11-06-2011, 09:46 AM
What naturals would be about 3-4k?? i know they don't have grits but would apply about the same finish, not looking for something so refined more so something that i can touch up my edge good while at work for the time being.

Eamon Burke
11-06-2011, 11:17 AM
An Aoto. I just found one on 330mate.com that is about $40....seems very cheap.

If you need someone to talk Naturals, Maksim has a subforum here...JapaneseNaturalStones.com

Darkhoek
11-06-2011, 11:29 AM
An Aoto. I just found one on 330mate.com that is about $40....seems very cheap.



I've got a couple of those Aotos from 330mate. The first one cracked in several pieces for no apparent reason. 330mate replaced it but the new one is very soft and wears down fast. In addition it has very low abrasion power and leaves a mediocre finish on my steels (scratchy particles). I have tried several different Aoto and it seems you pretty much get what you pay for. The more expensive ones are harder, finer and a lot more uniform in the grit leaving a lot better finish and edge. If you want a quality Aoto my best guess now would be aframes. He has got a couple of hard Kouzaki Aoto of good quality.

DarKHOeK

Citizen Snips
11-06-2011, 03:09 PM
i would recommend the GS as well. the size of them and general ease of use including splash and go quality would make it a good choice if you have to carry a stone around with you.

p.s. if seb is getting paid for shout outs to GS he is a millionaire because he has been doing it for a loooooong time

Eamon Burke
11-06-2011, 03:55 PM
If you want a quality Aoto my best guess now would be aframes. He has got a couple of hard Kouzaki Aoto of good quality.


My God, they are huge! Who wants to lug around an 8 pound jnat?

Seb
11-06-2011, 04:15 PM
i would recommend the GS as well. the size of them and general ease of use including splash and go quality would make it a good choice if you have to carry a stone around with you.

p.s. if seb is getting paid for shout outs to GS he is a millionaire because he has been doing it for a loooooong time

I'm trying to persuade those cheap bastids at Sigma Power to pony up as well!

RRLOVER
11-06-2011, 07:50 PM
If I was a pro and I had to lug stones around they would be GS's.I don't think the "stone" makes the difference,it's the sharpener!And yes I have GS's.

Schtoo
11-06-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm trying to persuade those cheap bastids at Sigma Power to pony up as well!

Be nice.

Stu,

(Who's just got a box of Sigma Power's first production splash and go stone.)

tk59
11-07-2011, 01:57 AM
...Sigma Power's first production splash and go stone...Oh?:viking:

Seb
11-07-2011, 07:08 AM
Duh... oh, ok I get it! The reason I lurv the GS is only cuz I haven't tried the SP 'splasher' yet! Yo, where's my Freebie?? :D