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View Full Version : It's time for a KKF-authorized Recommended List



mindbender
11-06-2011, 07:04 PM
I've read a few posts here and there on this site and I have a couple of observations:

1. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge found in the readers and posters here.
2. There are a number of individuals who will research, compare and purchase knives regardless of price.
3. The hype and reputation of any/all knives are scrutinized fairly (for the most part).
4. There is ample assistance provided to newcomers asking for help when considering/purchasing kitchen knives (often for the first time).


So I'm going to put this suggestion to Dave Martell and the heavy hitters here:

Why not come up with a "Recommended List" and classify the most favored or preferred knives based on quality and categorized by type (e.g. Gyuto, Yanagiba, Cleaver, etc)?

I'm hoping that this list would somewhat resemble Stereophile's "Recommended Components" list, where categories of products (Amps, CD Players, etc) would have varying classes (Class A, Class B, etc.) based on quality.

Price does not always reflect quality on the Stereophile list (ha!), because you could have a $20000 amplifier in Class A along with a superior $3000 amp - the list is based on opinions of quality. Very seldom, but it does happen..

My hope for this list is that it will provide an informal buying guide *based on the experience and knowledge of this forum* AND it will distinguish KKF as an excellent source for all buying considerations regardless of a reader's experience.

Would this require work and cooperation? Absolutely.

Has this been done on any knife-enthusiast forum? I don't know, but why not start now?

Please, no flames. This is just a helpful suggestion for this forum. I respect and follow the opinions and knowledge that the posters here contribute. I just think that an organized list will assist many people (and reduce a lot of posts like "What do you guys think of THIS knife?")

Lefty
11-06-2011, 07:16 PM
I like the idea, but a fair bit of "what's good/great" is very subjective. As a general rule, any knives mentioned here in a positive light are the best in the world.
Personally, I like big handles and shorter blades than the majority here, yet I'm sure everyone would agree the knives I love cut like mofos...it's tough to say what is worthy and what isn't. Just sayin'.

stevenStefano
11-06-2011, 07:23 PM
Why not just make a thread with set categories about which knife members feel is best? The most popular would be pretty obvious this way anyway surely not? I like your thinking I must say, if you're new to J-knives it can feel like a maze of information

Eamon Burke
11-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Because it's different for every person, use and budget. I almost named the "What knife should you buy?" thread "The best knife you can buy" thread. Many are looking for the "best" and the best is what is most suited to the person and situation.

Pensacola Tiger
11-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Maybe a sub-forum for reviews?

welshstar
11-06-2011, 08:59 PM
I was on the stereophile forums for years and it is a hotbed of manufacturers and dealers pushing their products. There was continuous arguing and bitching about what product was best. When i used my thirty years of audio electronics manufacturing experience to discredit certain things i got PM's from John Atkinson geting upset that I was out of line. Anyone into audio knows its all snake oil and BS, paying $10,000 for a peice of cable !!! the only guy who is even close to that here is kramer, would he automaticaly be the best knife ?

The nice thing about this forum is there is no judgemental process, by introducing any form of rankings you automatically will hurt someones feelings and create tension.

It might be clear to 99 % of people that a Shige is better than a Mac but who decides when a pro chef might have been using his MAC's for 30 years ? it is always subjective.

I vote against strictly on the basis of not causing the debates

Alan

James
11-06-2011, 10:53 PM
+1 on the sub-forum for reviews; an extensive review would offer more information than just listing suggestions, and heck, I just like reading knife reviews

The Edge
11-06-2011, 11:18 PM
I like the idea for a sub-forum for reviews. List a certain knife, then let everyone who's used one add their 2 cents. It would just need to be managed to make sure there were no double posts for the same knife, and it would allow for easier research.

mr drinky
11-06-2011, 11:31 PM
I personally don't think a forum is the best format for managing reviews. I mean seriously the search function doesn't work worth sh!t, so how is anyone going to really sort through old posts and find useful or up-to-date reviews?

I do think this is a good idea, but I think the best place for this is on a commercial site where the software is set up for reviews and possibly affiliate advertising, so everything is directed into the right place. Do we really want a situation where we all put in a lot of effort reviewing stones or knives or what have you and then people read it and go to another seller on eBay or vendor and buy it there just because it is $9 less?

I really think there should be a true commercial site such as a stone and knife review so we don't have to worry about forum shills (reference the earlier thread) and other vendor issues. Dave has the cred and instead of inserting commerce into the forum can get members to contribute for videos, pictures, reviews, blog posts whatever and focus it on another site that can bring in advertising, affiliate revenue and have a better architecture for managing user input.

Forum software is just not great for this purpose, but don't get me wrong, I think this idea is very worthwile, but it needs a better CMS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system) to do it well. My 2 cents.

k.

Andrew H
11-07-2011, 12:14 AM
I personally don't think a forum is the best format for managing reviews. I mean seriously the search function doesn't work worth sh!t, so how is anyone going to really sort through old posts and find useful or up-to-date reviews?

I do think this is a good idea, but I think the best place for this is on a commercial site where the software is set up for reviews and possibly affiliate advertising, so everything is directed into the right place. Do we really want a situation where we all put in a lot of effort reviewing stones or knives or what have you and then people read it and go to another seller on eBay or vendor and buy it there just because it is $9 less?

I really think there should be a true commercial site such as a stone and knife review so we don't have to worry about forum shills (reference the earlier thread) and other vendor issues. Dave has the cred and instead of inserting commerce into the forum can get members to contribute for videos, pictures, reviews, blog posts whatever and focus it on another site that can bring in advertising, affiliate revenue and have a better architecture for managing user input.

Forum software is just not great for this purpose, but don't get me wrong, I think this idea is very worthwile, but it needs a better CMS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system) to do it well. My 2 cents.

k.

I thought the idea was for everyone to post their thoughts about knife x in the thread for knife x. Also, I don't think most people are posting reviews so a certain vendor gets more sales. I think most people do it to help other people make better decisions.
The search function does suck though.

mr drinky
11-07-2011, 12:27 AM
I thought the idea was for everyone to post their thoughts about knife x in the thread for knife x. Also, I don't think most people are posting reviews so a certain vendor gets more sales. I think most people do it to help other people make better decisions.
The search function does suck though.

Ok, maybe that can work, but even if one didn't link it commercially, I simply believe forums are horrible platforms for managing this sort of information. Imagine 5 years from now with umteen misspellings of knife names, limited search functions, missing specs etc. Information gets buried without good info management. A slick blog as a content management system with a rating plug-in would be 10 times more functional and useful. That was my main point. I mean you still can't search for CCK on this site!?!?

k.

mr drinky
11-07-2011, 12:53 AM
Btw, re-reading my prior comment regarding the commercial aspect, I was probably overreacting. I just have bad feelings from the old KF days when reviews sometimes led to vendor recommendations too -- hence my idea for a separate commercial place for it. I do think something like the original suggestion could work, but I would suggest a moderator controlling the posting to ensure as much as possible consistent spelling, specs, language etc.

k.

Citizen Snips
11-07-2011, 01:09 AM
honestly i do not like the idea. the reason we are all here is to talk and discuss knives and sharpening. i do not like any idea that removes the great conversations and debates here. having some preferred knives section is a way for people to come here, look something up and contribute nothing. i for one love when someone comes to ask and research which knife will be best for them and what they are looking for, give us a review on how it works for them, and sticks around to become part of this community. this place is great as a forum, not a dictionary.

another thing, the search tab works just as its intended. if anyone is so impatient that they are unable to do research for a purchase that takes over a few minutes, they are at the wrong forums. i never make a decision based on what one website or what one person says about a knife. there is no reason to not take some time to get the right knife.

im not trying to be a negative nancy, but i feel that what this idea goes against what keeps me here to read and contribute multiple times a day.

tk59
11-07-2011, 01:51 AM
+1.

DwarvenChef
11-07-2011, 02:23 AM
As many have stated, I like "personal" reviews of products but don't like ranking systems. It's ok in some areas where the "bell curve" is more normal or average, but lets face it lol we are not avg and our bell curve it very lopsided. One personal love of an item is hated by another and that never goes well. A personal review is just that and we all seem to be very accepting of each others reviews and comment accordingly. I just don't see that happening with a "Recommended list"

tk59
11-07-2011, 02:31 AM
Right. If you were in charge, everyone would think kuro-uchi is where it's at. :poke1:

DwarvenChef
11-07-2011, 02:59 AM
Right. If you were in charge, everyone would think kuro-uchi is where it's at. :poke1:

What? it isn't :p We all know that shiney stuff is cacca

JohnnyChance
11-07-2011, 04:47 AM
I would also say that the majority of the users on this forum, myself included, haven't used enough examples of the same style of knives to make an official recommendation list. I have no interest in Konosukes, have never used one and will most likely never own one. How could I recommend something over a Konosuke in a comprehensive list? And I am just thinking about gyutos, of which I have used more of than everything else put together. I've also used a few sujis, but how many pettys, parers, usubas, yanagis, etc do most people get to use more than a few of? Most of the knives we talk about here are in top 1 or 5% in performance of kitchen cutlery already, it is tough to pick definitive leaders at each price point. Also one of the reasons we see a lot of glowing reviews. In most cases, people are using the best knife they ever have, of course it gets top marks. Add in that the looks, handle shape, steel, etc are so subjective to each users preferences, a list of this type doesn't work as well for knives as it does for audio equipment or computer components.

RRLOVER
11-07-2011, 07:57 AM
I would also say that the majority of the users on this forum, myself included, haven't used enough examples of the same style of knives to make an official recommendation list. I have no interest in Konosukes, have never used one and will most likely never own one. How could I recommend something over a Konosuke in a comprehensive list? And I am just thinking about gyutos, of which I have used more of than everything else put together. I've also used a few sujis, but how many pettys, parers, usubas, yanagis, etc do most people get to use more than a few of? Most of the knives we talk about here are in top 1 or 5% in performance of kitchen cutlery already, it is tough to pick definitive leaders at each price point. Also one of the reasons we see a lot of glowing reviews. In most cases, people are using the best knife they ever have, of course it gets top marks. Add in that the looks, handle shape, steel, etc are so subjective to each users preferences, a list of this type doesn't work as well for knives as it does for audio equipment or computer components.



What he said!

mr drinky
11-07-2011, 09:36 AM
honestly i do not like the idea. the reason we are all here is to talk and discuss knives and sharpening. i do not like any idea that removes the great conversations and debates here. having some preferred knives section is a way for people to come here, look something up and contribute nothing. i for one love when someone comes to ask and research which knife will be best for them and what they are looking for, give us a review on how it works for them, and sticks around to become part of this community. this place is great as a forum, not a dictionary.

another thing, the search tab works just as its intended. if anyone is so impatient that they are unable to do research for a purchase that takes over a few minutes, they are at the wrong forums. i never make a decision based on what one website or what one person says about a knife. there is no reason to not take some time to get the right knife.

im not trying to be a negative nancy, but i feel that what this idea goes against what keeps me here to read and contribute multiple times a day.

You make some good points there Citizen as do DwarvenChef and JohnnyChance. It's amazing but as my body metabolized the alcohol out, I started to see things differently. Hmmm.

With that said, I do think stone reviews would be helpful. I remember Dave had a post on KF and he listed what stones he used for different types of blades. And I never could find it again. Also stones are a bit more objective than knives as profiles, handle styles etc don't come into play.

k.

JohnnyChance
11-07-2011, 02:51 PM
You make some good points there Citizen as do DwarvenChef and JohnnyChance. It's amazing but as my body metabolized the alcohol out, I started to see things differently. Hmmm.

With that said, I do think stone reviews would be helpful. I remember Dave had a post on KF and he listed what stones he used for different types of blades. And I never could find it again. Also stones are a bit more objective than knives as profiles, handle styles etc don't come into play.

k.

Yeah, the stones are all about function. You can prefer softer or harder stones, splash and gos or soakers, etc, but it is still about function. Nobody says "I need a 400-500 grit stone, but I don't want a Chosera because I don't like the color green."

tk59
11-07-2011, 03:00 PM
...Nobody says "I need a 400-500 grit stone, but I don't want a Chosera because I don't like the color green."Actually... (I swear it wasn't me.)

JBroida
11-07-2011, 03:19 PM
i've had that happen for real... seriously, someone refused to buy a pink stone

Rottman
11-07-2011, 03:43 PM
i've had that happen for real... seriously, someone refused to buy a pink stone

Was that a Hello Kitty stone?

JBroida
11-07-2011, 03:49 PM
haha... no, but maybe i should have some of those made. Would you buy one? Pink with red polka dots?

Rottman
11-07-2011, 03:50 PM
I'd pass, I already have the 3K Chocera, that's close enough.....

Citizen Snips
11-07-2011, 04:00 PM
You make some good points there Citizen as do DwarvenChef and JohnnyChance. It's amazing but as my body metabolized the alcohol out, I started to see things differently. Hmmm.

With that said, I do think stone reviews would be helpful. I remember Dave had a post on KF and he listed what stones he used for different types of blades. And I never could find it again. Also stones are a bit more objective than knives as profiles, handle styles etc don't come into play.

k.

i think the individual objective reviews are fantastic. i read every review of all the knives and stones here to learn more and that was what i was talking about when i was stating why i love it here. i did my review on the gesshin 400 and 4k stones with the idea of comparing them to the beston and rika but i have also used other stones.

i think a sub forum specific to reviews might not be a terrible idea so long as its objective and there are comparisons available. its hard to review a knife (as stated above) when it is your first japanese blade.

Citizen Snips
11-07-2011, 04:02 PM
haha... no, but maybe i should have some of those made. Would you buy one? Pink with red polka dots?

i would buy that in a second. i wonder if designs not printed on the stone would be incredibly hard to do.

i would like to commission you to do a black stone with yellow, orange and red flames (guy fierri style)

that would be fun.

JBroida
11-07-2011, 04:16 PM
lol

tk59
11-07-2011, 05:00 PM
haha... no, but maybe i should have some of those made. Would you buy one? Pink with red polka dots?I think you already have one like that in your collection. I seem to remember a certain 6k stone...

unkajonet
11-08-2011, 02:00 AM
I think you already have one like that in your collection. I seem to remember a certain 6k stone...

Yup - I've seen that stone too.