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View Full Version : 210 suji or 210 gyuto?



heirkb
11-10-2011, 01:38 AM
I know there's a ton about 210 sujis out there, but I'm not sure I ever saw a direct comparison of these two knives.

A little background...As I try out more knives, I'm coming to the realization that my 150mm petty is now an annoying size as a utility knife. There's a smaller size I prefer for peeling and tiny tasks (80mm petty). And I feel like there's a larger size I'd prefer for other quick tasks when I don't have a ton of space or don't want to pull out a larger gyuto for just one potato. I kind of have had the same realization with 240 gyutos. They're kind of a middle size for me and I'd rather have something a bit longer for when I'm actually doing a lot of work and something a bit shorter for when I'm doing something really small/quick.

All this has left me curious about the 210mm size. That way, I could have 80mm, 210mm, and 270mm (and maybe 150mm). So the question is, what are the advantages of a 210 suji over a 210 gyuto? They're often the same price, so some part of me feels like getting more steel for my money, but I figured I'd ask you guys who have played with them before.

JohnnyChance
11-10-2011, 01:45 AM
When you are reaching for a mid size knife, are you using it just on the board, or will you be using it in hand as well? Basically, will you need/prefer knuckle clearance on a knife you use for these cutting tasks? If so, go gyuto. The suji would be a little more versatile, can be used in hand or can be used on the board by using the tip or positioning your hand over open space instead of the cutting surface.

But the real answer of course is....you need both.

welshstar
11-10-2011, 01:49 AM
Gotta step in

150/180 gyuto is the future, just not everyone is aware yet, pettys are good but if you add some depth to them then they become far more useful

heirkb
11-10-2011, 02:02 AM
Thanks for the response, Johnny.

I guess it's tough to say how I'd use it without having tried one. I do find that I prefer the smaller 80mm knife for off the board peeling type tasks. I do however like to use utility knives for trimming meat and small deboning tasks. All this would seem to favor the suji, but knuckle clearance is still somewhat of a concern for me. When using a 210 suji on the board, have you found knuckle clearance to be an annoying thing to work around? I like simplicity (partly because I always sell things to buy new things), but in this case, it's a tough call to pick between the two.

As for 180 gyuto...I've been curious about those, too. I don't think it would be quite enough length for my taste, though.

JohnnyChance
11-10-2011, 02:09 AM
I think you need a 210 suji with a bit of an up swept handle, kinda like the "Alton's Angle" Shuns, or Pierre's Pettysuki.

DwarvenChef
11-10-2011, 02:11 AM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/DwarvenChef/Kochi210.jpg
210 Kochi gyuto

I just got this one to try out that very question. And I came up with the usual answer... I need both :p As a home use knife this has been great but it doesn't do a few jobs that I think a suji would do better. So I'm planning a 210 or 180 suji/petty after the new year.

heirkb
11-10-2011, 02:32 AM
So, DC, what was it for you that the 210 gyuto couldn't do? We might have already gone over it, but I'm just curious.

DwarvenChef
11-10-2011, 02:42 AM
There are times when a thinner blade profile just seems to feel better for me. Cutting a sandwich in half, boning out a chicken, all these jobs work just fine with both knives but I like the feel of the narrow profile at times. Funny as I feel fine boning a chicken with a cleaver just as well, but the gyuto seems off just a touch. Would the avg user notice or care... probably not, but I notice and for me that all that matters really :p

tk59
11-10-2011, 02:50 AM
Taller blade = more drag and less point. I use my 210 suji for in-hand peeling, mostly and on the board meat cleaning type work. For most other jobs, I tend to use 240-260 gyuto.

DwarvenChef
11-10-2011, 02:59 AM
Taller blade = more drag and less point. I use my 210 suji for in-hand peeling, mostly and on the board meat cleaning type work. For most other jobs, I tend to use 240-260 gyuto.

^ +1

El Pescador
11-10-2011, 03:03 AM
TK peels a mean mango.

macmiddlebrooks
11-10-2011, 04:13 AM
I'm finding that I am leaning heavily on my 240 suji (even for prep). It's new so that's a factor, but it moves though food noticeably easier, has just enough knuckle clearance and it's just plain fun. I'm finding the 240mm to be the perfect size to fit between my 75mm parer and 270mm gyuto.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6230/6315748380_144710e0cc_z.jpg

Lefty
11-10-2011, 06:14 AM
I agree with Johnny. A pettysuki would be a solid choice. You could get one made in 210mm and have the best of both worlds. The beefed up, yet thin tip is great for on board tasks, and if you need a tight point, you can just use the parer and switch back. For good measure, here's a a pic of mine :D

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/f5e45227.jpg

Timthebeaver
11-10-2011, 06:43 AM
I have a Sugimoto gyuto (195 mm edge) of this length. It is very thin and has a narrow profile (39mm at heel), and feels more like a slicer than a gyuto to me.

macmiddlebrooks
11-10-2011, 06:47 AM
This is just....wow.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/f5e45227.jpg[/QUOTE]

evanjohnson
11-10-2011, 08:37 AM
Back in October, I ordered a Shigefusa 210 petty with a little extra height added and a slightly thinner blade (all per Hide's recommendation) instead of a 210 gyuto. The Shige petty is more reasonably priced than the gyuto. 4 month delivery so hopefully I can review it when it eventually arrives.

cnochef
11-10-2011, 08:42 AM
IMHO, a 180 gyuto + 210 suji is a great combo for most household cooking tasks. When I'm working as a chef I prefer 270 gyuto and 300 suji at work, but you generally have more workspace and larger cutting boards when doing prep.

NO ChoP!
11-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Go petty... I've got a 210 Fowler in my kitchen right now, with a nice up-swept handle and tons of knuckle clearance. I also have a 210 Kono HD, which is perfect for protein slicing.

stevenStefano
11-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Get a 210 petty. I have an 8cm parer a 210 petty and a 240 gyuto and I find they complement each other very well

NO ChoP!
11-10-2011, 10:57 AM
edit

Marko Tsourkan
11-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Gotta step in

150/180 gyuto is the future, just not everyone is aware yet, pettys are good but if you add some depth to them then they become far more useful

Hmmm... I am not sure about that but I do agree that many average users will prefer a shorter knife over a longer

stevenStefano
11-10-2011, 03:14 PM
Gotta step in

150/180 gyuto is the future, just not everyone is aware yet, pettys are good but if you add some depth to them then they become far more useful

Don't really agree with you. If you want to do anything other than push cutting you have to angle the blade so high it is pointless, therefore why bother with a gyuto, why not just use a petty? Also for most small tasks the wide blade is a hindrance whereas a petty is not as tall and much nimbler and therefore more useful. I think a 210 gyuto is much more useful. If I had a smaller kitchen maybe I'd think different perhaps

mpukas
11-10-2011, 03:38 PM
A little background...As I try out more knives, I'm coming to the realization that my 150mm petty is now an annoying size as a utility knife.

I've been finding the same results and having exactly the same thoughts as you. The 150 petty is too big for small in hand tasks and too small for larger cutting tasks where a gyuto is not useful. And why all the love for a 210 sujis whereas 210 gyutos barely get recognized? I think a 210 gyuto is more versatile than a 210 suji, but 210 sujis are oh so sexy.

A 210 suji will have less friction/resistance due to less height but also have less knuckle clearance. A 210 gyuto has more knuckle clearance and sometimes a taller blade can me useful, but it also may be thicker and not quite as good at slicing. And (a personal issue) after using G-knives w/ bolsters for so many years, I've got a habit of catching my fingers and thumb on the heel; having the extra clearance of a gyuto reduces the # of times I cut myself. I've got to get something to replace to 150 petty and don't know what to do...

If I were going to go minimalist for my kit, I'd go w/ a 210 suji. I would use it primarily for in-hand work, peeling and slicing small things on a board. Having fewer knives to sharpen, carry in my travel kit, and keep track of a job is appealing.

However, I think going w/ a 180 petty and a 210 gyuto is more funner. The 180 petty can be used for in-hand work and the 210 gyuto can be used for slicing small things on a board, small tasks where you don't want a 270 gyuto, etc. Also, it appears that {some} 210 gyutos are not as tall or thick as 270 brethren so they can be used in hand easier. I don't care about how many knives I have for home use; the more the merrier!

Either option would be to compliment a kit consisting of a small parer, 270 gyuto and a 300 suji.

Eamon Burke
11-10-2011, 03:45 PM
The pettysuki is the future

heirkb
11-10-2011, 05:00 PM
I'm liking the idea of a suji with a little extra knuckle clearance. I guess the reason is that I figure I could have the 210 suji when I'm making something small and quick like an omelette for one or two. It'd work in-hand and for quick things on the board. Then for a bigger meal or when I have more prep, I could use the small 80mm petty/parer (since I prefer it for in-hand work anyways) and a 270 gyuto. So one knife for when I'm in a rush, and two for when I'm not.

That 240 suji macmiddlebrooks posted has a really angled edge relative to the spine, so the knuckle clearance seems like it'd be ok. I might try to go with something like that but a 210.

TDj
11-10-2011, 05:04 PM
or don't want to pull out a larger gyuto for just one potato ...
Blasphemy!!

Actually - I used to think like this, but then I made it a point to not let the quantity of an item dissuade me from pulling out my 270 gyuto.
I have a 270 gyuto and a 210 gyuto and really - i find them to be redundant (i.e. the 210 is redundant) - but that's my wife's knife, so it'll stick around. a 180-210 suji though, would be quite useful (trimming meat is the one thing i'm not fond of doing with my 270 gyuto) - but i'm only a home chef, so who knows how many other ways to use this are.

macmiddlebrooks
11-10-2011, 05:12 PM
[/QUOTE]That 240 suji macmiddlebrooks posted has a really angled edge relative to the spine, so the knuckle clearance seems like it'd be ok. I might try to go with something like that but a 210.[/QUOTE]

Yep, the clearance is there. The handle also angles up just a scosh. I will also say for the record that after using a co-worker's 210, I'm partial to that extra 30mm as weird as that sounds. Your milage may vary of course.

heirkb
11-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Yea I could see wanting a little extra length. I'm thinking jumping up to 240 would take it out of the utility knife range into all-arounder territory. I've never tried a narrow 240mm knife, but I know there's no way I can do any in-hand work with the 240mm (gyutos) I have. That may just be a function of them being gyutos, though.

Eamon Burke
11-10-2011, 06:09 PM
If there is one thing a gyuto/chefs should not be concerned with accommodating, it's being used in hand. There's a reason parers are sold with them!

Marko Tsourkan
11-10-2011, 06:22 PM
Most sujis are 35-38mm tall, so not much knuckle clearance even with an offset handle.
M

mpukas
11-10-2011, 09:04 PM
If there is one thing a gyuto/chefs should not be concerned with accommodating, it's being used in hand.

Says who???!!! :razz:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dSEXVJHkNg&list=PL29395E4B438DCF78&index=11&feature=plpp_video

Vertigo
11-10-2011, 09:13 PM
If there is one thing a gyuto/chefs should not be concerned with accommodating, it's being used in hand. There's a reason parers are sold with them!

What the hell? I peel apples, do citrus supremes, even practice katsuramuki with a 270mm long and 48mm tall gyuto. You little squirts down in Texas need to start drinking milk and growing yer bones. ;)

heirkb
11-10-2011, 09:17 PM
I love that video. Anyone have any tips on how to get better at peeling in-hand? I mean I know there's practice, but are there any specific things that would help?

sachem allison
11-10-2011, 10:44 PM
The pettysuki is the future



+1 I love the pettysuki Spike made for me and sometime in the future there is a 210 version probably double bevel coming

JohnnyChance
11-11-2011, 02:03 AM
Most of my knife work is done with 270mm gyutos or 300mm sujis. So when I use my 210mm HHH gyuto or 240mm Marko gyuto, they seem small to me and I often use them in hand without a problem.

tk59
11-11-2011, 02:21 AM
Says who???!!! :razz:Damn that's cool. I think I just found my next project...

Eamon Burke
11-11-2011, 06:22 PM
Says who???!!! :razz:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dSEXVJHkNg&list=PL29395E4B438DCF78&index=11&feature=plpp_video

That is incredible. I will be trying to do this!

But it's still not something they should be designed for, because it is such a different use from the other many on-board tasks that it is designed to do. Which is what I was getting at.