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JohnnyChance
11-18-2011, 12:11 PM
They just couldn't leave a good thing alone:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--THe8X3uFFw/TsaGaNcS_7I/AAAAAAAABPY/jIHhNfKWQMQ/s720/IMG_1238.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MaaOiU50HAs/TsaGVcMI1EI/AAAAAAAABPc/huJ2C1tjoHc/s912/IMG_1239.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZCJb-RDBH30/TsaGUr9uNzI/AAAAAAAABO4/rJHZ1jLzMBg/s720/IMG_1240.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T4eft0VO-A8/TsaGTWsTH4I/AAAAAAAABPg/maNO2gxI3bI/s912/IMG_1241.JPG

250 made, unknown carbon steel, $1800.

Made in Germany! You know the Germans make good stuff.

tk59
11-18-2011, 12:19 PM
Pretty cool. "Fire-welded" and a real Kramer pin, to boot! Some Germans make really good stuff. :)

Andrew H
11-18-2011, 12:19 PM
But you get free shipping....

JohnnyChance
11-18-2011, 12:25 PM
Pretty cool. "Fire-welded" and a real Kramer pin, to boot! Some Germans make really good stuff. :)

Yeah. Like Shamwows.

Did "African Blackwood" not sound fancy enough, so they referred to it as "Grenadille" instead? Racists!!

SeanRogerPierce
11-18-2011, 12:33 PM
Grenadille is the more precise name. At least in a german translation "African Blackwood" would be "African Ebony" and Grenadille is not from the Ebony Family, but a kind of Palisander.

JohnnyChance
11-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Grenadille is the more precise name. At least in a german translation "African Blackwood" would be "African Ebony" and Grenadille is not from the Ebony Family, but a kind of Palisander.

I stand corrected then. I had read it was interchangeable and used to describe african blackwood and some similar ones.

EdipisReks
11-18-2011, 12:37 PM
yep. grenadilla (the stuff clarinets and oboes are usually made of) is a different wood.

SeanRogerPierce
11-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Yes it is interchangeable, but strictly speaking not correct. At least not from a botanical point of view.

Larrin
11-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Looks pretty nice. Sure is expensive.

welshstar
11-18-2011, 02:27 PM
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/zwilling-j-a-henckels-damascus-chefs-knife/?pkey=cchefs-santoku-knives

Is this the same knife with different handle ?

JohnnyChance
11-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Probably made in the same place. Different blade profile though.

Marko Tsourkan
11-18-2011, 03:24 PM
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/zwilling-j-a-henckels-damascus-chefs-knife/?pkey=cchefs-santoku-knives

Is this the same knife with different handle ?
Looks like it. Never underestimate the power of lending one's name to a product.

M

EdipisReks
11-18-2011, 03:29 PM
the profiles are quite different.

Johnny.B.Good
11-18-2011, 08:36 PM
But you get free shipping....

My favorite thing about Sur La Table is how they always display the "value" of the item in question (in this case $2,100) next to the price ($1,800). Very helpful to know you are getting a great deal and coming out ahead on every transaction. ;)

NO ChoP!
11-19-2011, 02:16 AM
So @ $1800 for a factory made, how much more would it be to get a real handmade carbon (non damascus) Kramer??

(Kind of reminds me of the old professional athlete adage, if you make two hundred million dollars, are you really richer than if you made 100 million?)

Point is, if you've got 2 g's to drop on a knife, than you've probably got 3 or 4 g's, too....so who is this targeted towards?

EdipisReks
11-19-2011, 05:28 AM
i would say it's targeted at people who want to buy "the ultimate cutlery gift." :)

oivind_dahle
11-19-2011, 05:44 AM
Here is a person I use a lot in my lectures (I hold one this week for a rather large audience)...

Joshua Bell!
http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/2/92086/1216584/Joshua-Bell_450.jpg

When I ask my audience about who this is, nobody knows. And then I tell them who he is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Bell

And then I go into the washington Post experiment...



Then I sum up..

Its all about branding and marketing.

I hope I see my fav makers come together and starting to brand and marketing. This place is not a webstore, this is a forum. Huge difference...

Michael Rader
11-19-2011, 01:35 PM
Nice. My custom damascus integrals are less than that. I guess it's time for a raise.

-M

welshstar
11-19-2011, 02:00 PM
Oivind

Not sure what your talking about.

I recognized Joshua Bell immediately, ive seen him numerous times with Chicago symphony orchestra, there is nothing wrong with his branding, he paid $4 million for his violin !!

JohnnyChance
11-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Nice. My custom damascus integrals are less than that. I guess it's time for a raise.

-M

Maybe you need to start engraving "1 of 1" on them.

oivind_dahle
11-19-2011, 06:10 PM
Oivind

Not sure what your talking about.

I recognized Joshua Bell immediately, ive seen him numerous times with Chicago symphony orchestra, there is nothing wrong with his branding, he paid $4 million for his violin !!



Sorry for being so unclear :)

Joshua had an experiment known as washington Post experiment. He played at a subway station for an hour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOPu0_YWhw

He is unknown for most people, and put out of his element (a stage) and into a subway shows how much branding and marketing actually means.

tk59
11-19-2011, 06:46 PM
Nice. My custom damascus integrals are less than that. I guess it's time for a raise...Sounds like a plan. Please put me on your list just before you raise the prices. :D

Andrew H
11-19-2011, 06:47 PM
Alright, I didn't read the entire article, it's 7,500 words. Still, I don't think it is the best example for "how much branding and marketing actually means."

welshstar
11-19-2011, 08:49 PM
Oivind

Thats true of just about anyone famous.

Mother Teresa or The pope could walk down the average street if they were wearing levi's and a hoodie !!

99% of what we spend money on is dictated by branding and marketing, i think this forum though is not really about branding.

Alan

EdipisReks
11-19-2011, 11:52 PM
Oivind

Thats true of just about anyone famous.

Mother Teresa or The pope could walk down the average street if they were wearing levi's and a hoodie !!

99% of what we spend money on is dictated by branding and marketing, i think this forum though is not really about branding.

Alan

i think Mother Teresa would raise eyebrows even in Levis and a hoody, given that she's dead and all.

tk59
11-20-2011, 02:37 AM
i think Mother Teresa would raise eyebrows even in Levis and a hoody, given that she's dead and all.I'd bet money you wouldn't recognize her on a busy or even not particularly busy street. :razz:

mr drinky
11-20-2011, 12:04 PM
I like how they say the knife is 'certified' by bob kramer to meet his standards.

Maybe Dave should hire a bunch of sharpeners and then he can 'certify' that the edges meet his standards. This way he can create a little sharpening sweat shop in PA and spend all of his time churning out knives ;)

k.

NO ChoP!
11-20-2011, 12:26 PM
Nice. My custom damascus integrals are less than that. I guess it's time for a raise.

-M

:doublethumbsup:

+1 on Johnny's 1 of 1....

Michael Rader
11-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Hmmm. Well, each knife is already "1 of 1." That's pretty clear I think; do I really need to etch that on to each piece? It'd be easy enough to do, but wouldn't that seem a little... I don't know... cheesy? Manipulative?

-M

WildBoar
11-20-2011, 12:36 PM
I think the points about branding and marketing are spot on. If your branding and marketing are well-known, you do not actually need to have talent. Maybe that's why so many people look on marketing people with a jaundiced eye.

(Not that BK doesn't have talent -- he sure seems to make a nice knife, and some of Zwelling's factory repros aren't half bad for the price)

NO ChoP!
11-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Hmmm. Well, each knife is already "1 of 1." That's pretty clear I think; do I really need to etch that on to each piece? It'd be easy enough to do, but wouldn't that seem a little... I don't know... cheesy? Manipulative?

-M

Absolutely; just a funny point. It's definitely a given, and my earlier point was this exactly; why so much for a factory when I could get a full off 1 of 1 custom? Seem silly, to me at least. But, I'm sure all 250 will sell in a flash....

WildBoar
11-20-2011, 01:50 PM
I suspect the 250 who would buy this knife know nothing about the world of customs except maybe for BK -- and this knife looks like a bargain compared to a full custom from him (plus no 3 year wait). Thanks to the Internet and these forums, many of us have been able to learn about many other custom makers and obtain knife at a much lower price point. I feel sorry for those who do not know anything beyond the SlT or Chef's catalogs that arrive in the mail, as they buy into a lot of gimmicky products and overpay for artisan versions of the necessary ones. When SlT rolls out BK-approved damascus fish tongs, they will probably cost $500 :)

And I'm surprised no one has commented on the $300 BK sink bridge yet!

JohnnyChance
11-20-2011, 06:10 PM
Hmmm. Well, each knife is already "1 of 1." That's pretty clear I think; do I really need to etch that on to each piece? It'd be easy enough to do, but wouldn't that seem a little... I don't know... cheesy? Manipulative?

-M

Haha, it would be both of those. Don't worry, I was being sarcastic.

JohnnyChance
11-20-2011, 06:14 PM
And I'm surprised no one has commented on the $300 BK sink bridge yet!

We did. (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?3423-SLT-Kramer-sharpening-Kit)

Andrew H
11-20-2011, 06:33 PM
We did. (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?3423-SLT-Kramer-sharpening-Kit)

I was trying to find that, stupid search function.

Michael Rader
11-20-2011, 09:52 PM
So, curious: when the 250 knives are all gone, don't you think they'll just start over with a different blade? That's what I would do if I was running that kind of show. So, that really means that this whole 1/250 thing is just kind of a marketing ploy, isn't it? (Rhetorical question.)

So, who really cares about the number game here?

-M

add
11-20-2011, 10:06 PM
So, curious: when the 250 knives are all gone, don't you think they'll just start over with a different blade? That's what I would do if I was running that kind of show. So, that really means that this whole 1/250 thing is just kind of a marketing ploy, isn't it? (Rhetorical question.)

So, who really cares about the number game here?

-M

SLT($), Karmer($) and most importantly (at least for those two entities), the new owner. :D:D

WildBoar
11-21-2011, 01:32 AM
We did. (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?3423-SLT-Kramer-sharpening-Kit)Whoops -- forgot that it was. :O

ajhuff
11-22-2011, 06:12 PM
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

Perhaps there are sheep on both sides of the fence?

-AJ

NO ChoP!
11-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Well, I own a Zwilling Kramer carbon; and really, really like it. It's a great shape, great steel, great F&F, and the distal taper is perfect- best I've ever seen.

That being said, my main point was I would rather get a true Kramer custom carbon over a Kramer damascus factory.... would be more special.

I think people have a hard time swallowing the cost of these things. It's akin to paying a fortune for one bite of some fru-fru gastronomic crap to me.... I'll take the short ribs and risotto, please.

welshstar
11-22-2011, 06:20 PM
There was kramer auction this week, it was at $18,500

Anyone know where it finished ?

Andrew H
11-22-2011, 06:22 PM
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

-AJ

How do we know that the 250 units are exactly the same, and even if they are, how does this make them good? And if a chef produces a bad dish over and over consistently he isn't respected, not in my book at least.
Kramer did already put his name to some less than impressive Shun imitations, but I guess there will only be one way to find out how good or bad these knives are. Still, I don't think it is fair to say that this is a case of everyone hating a winner.

NO ChoP!
11-22-2011, 06:33 PM
+1 to the "less than impressive Shuns"....(can you say thick at the tip)

...at least they got it right at Zwilling.

WildBoar
11-22-2011, 10:17 PM
I think the Zwelling Kramer chef knives are okay. Handle is a little too bulky for my tastes, but the 10" otherwise seemed nice. For $350, there are others that interest me more. And I also feel for $2k I'd much rather have a custom carbon Kramer then a 'semi-custom' made with his steel only.

Iceman91
11-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.

EdipisReks
11-22-2011, 11:11 PM
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.

i'm the same way. i checked out the Euro line at SLT, and i disliked the handle. way too bulky. Meiji might be something different.

JohnnyChance
11-23-2011, 02:32 AM
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

Perhaps there are sheep on both sides of the fence?

-AJ
Like NO ChoP!, I own a Zwilling Kramer (and a Shun Kramer for that matter) and I really, really like it. I have been the most or one of these most vocal people on this board about how good this knife really is. I think many people here don't give it a fair shake. It is one of, if not the, best made factory knives I have used. Yes it is taller than most gyutos, yes the handle is *slightly* pudgy, but it is still a great knife if you have the man hands to hold it. And I like using a taller gyuto now and then for a change of pace. At $350 I think it was one of the leaders in that price point, and if you can get one with an employee discount for ~$210, it can't be beat.

WildBoar
11-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.When I saw him a few months back at SlT he hinted one might debut very soon, but I'm starting to wonder now. Maybe they are still working on terms w/ Williams-Sonoma.

JohnnyChance
11-23-2011, 01:51 PM
If SLT has an exclusivity clause with him, you can bet it won't run out before the holidays. If Williams Sonoma is getting a meiji line, it won't be until 2012.

JMJones
11-23-2011, 02:53 PM
I think for the most part knife nuts would prefer a real kramer in carbon steel than a factory damascus knife however just buying a real kramer for 1500 bucks is not really an option. You have to win his lottery to get a chance to purchase the knife. There is not even a waiting list anymore. So you have basically three option if you want a knife me made 1.) Win the lottery for one, 2.) Buy one directly from him from is auctions for huge money, 3.) Get lucky enough to find one in the aftermarket. If none of those work you have the option of buying a factory copy.

JohnnyChance
11-24-2011, 05:25 AM
There was kramer auction this week, it was at $18,500

Anyone know where it finished ?

$28,100.

To be fair, it was 3 knives: 8" Chef, 5.75" Utility, and 4" Parer, all in mosaic damascus and snakewood meiji handles; and a cutting board.

Much better deal than the last package auction, which had 2 knives and a cutting board, and hit $55k I believe.

bcrano
11-25-2011, 01:07 AM
I haven't used it but I really like the shape of this knife. How's the geometry feel to people who've tried it?

JohnnyChance
11-25-2011, 02:32 AM
I haven't used it but I really like the shape of this knife. How's the geometry feel to people who've tried it?

Which knife, the straight carbon (52100) Zwilling Kramer? Or the damascus Zwilling version?

The 52100 version is pretty nice, has a gentle symmetrical convex. It is fairly tall, so you do get some sticking despite the convex because there is so much surface area. It has a great distal taper, in fact probably the best or second best of all the knives I have. Starts fairly thick by the bolster, but gets wicked thin by the tip. Thickness behind the edge also tapers as it gets closer to the tip. At the heel the knife is about 1mm thick 10mm or so behind the edge. As you get towards the tip the knife gets thinner until at about 47mm from the tip, the knife is 1mm thick at the spine. Very, very nicely ground and finished for a factory knife, even if it is a $350 one.

EdipisReks
11-25-2011, 03:29 AM
Which knife, the straight carbon (52100) Zwilling Kramer? Or the damascus Zwilling version?

The 52100 version is pretty nice, has a gentle symmetrical convex. It is fairly tall, so you do get some sticking despite the convex because there is so much surface area. It has a great distal taper, in fact probably the best or second best of all the knives I have. Starts fairly thick by the bolster, but gets wicked thin by the tip. Thickness behind the edge also tapers as it gets closer to the tip. At the heel the knife is about 1mm thick 10mm or so behind the edge. As you get towards the tip the knife gets thinner until at about 47mm from the tip, the knife is 1mm thick at the spine. Very, very nicely ground and finished for a factory knife, even if it is a $350 one.

if the handle wasn't so chunky i would definitely get one.

jmforge
11-26-2011, 02:55 AM
Interesting and pricey. I wonder who made the damascus? When I was at the show in Belgium weekend before last, I heard that Markus Balbach had ended his relationship with Boker. Wonder if he got a new factory customer? There are a couple of other guys who make a fair amount of damascus for other knifemakers in Germany like Achim Wirtz. The most common blend I see my friends over there using is either O2 or one of the Euro versions of the 10xx type steels like C75 and c75Ni, which is pretty much an analogue of 15N20. Anyone heard what the components of the steel are in this knife?

ecchef
11-26-2011, 08:01 AM
$55k

What the f**k is wrong with these people? I've been a die hard consertive all my life, but that guy should have the sh*t taxed out of him. Just because.

Noodle Soup
11-26-2011, 01:31 PM
What the f**k is wrong with these people? I've been a die hard consertive all my life, but that guy should have the sh*t taxed out of him. Just because.
Thumbs up to that! :)

jaybett
11-27-2011, 05:48 AM
What the f**k is wrong with these people? I've been a die hard consertive all my life, but that guy should have the sh*t taxed out of him. Just because.
What exactly is wrong with them? Unless they robbed a bank or set up a Ponzi scheme, why should anybody care how they spend their money?

Jay

shankster
11-27-2011, 09:24 AM
What exactly is wrong with them? Unless they robbed a bank or set up a Ponzi scheme, why should anybody care how they spend their money?

Jay

+1 on that...

Marlkus Balbach
01-09-2012, 12:36 PM
Interesting and pricey. I wonder who made the damascus? , I heard that Markus Balbach had ended his relationship with Boker. The most common blend I see my friends over there using is either O2 or one of the Euro versions of the 10xx type steels like C75 and c75Ni, which is pretty much an analogue of 15N20. Anyone heard what the components of the steel are in this knife?

@*******,

I´m Markus Balbach from Germany.
My english is not the best, I hope you understand what I write!

It´s right, I supply company Böker since 01.2008 no longer with damascussteel.
But all the other companies in Solingen I supply with steel: Friedrich Hartkopf, Puma, Franz Güde, Eickhorn, Linder, Zwilling and several other companies, knifemakers and Jewelry Manufacturer in Germany and Europe.
If You klick "BALBACH-DAMAST®" on my webside, You can see, what steel I process for my different damascussteel.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Markus Balbach

Lefty
01-09-2012, 01:00 PM
^ well that was pretty freaking cool.

ejd53
01-09-2012, 05:45 PM
Yes, yes that was.

Johnny.B.Good
01-09-2012, 05:51 PM
Mr. Balbach must have some sort of Google alert set up for his name. Pretty cool that he took the time to register and respond!

Eamon Burke
01-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Settled, then.

jmforge
01-10-2012, 02:27 AM
Thanks for the info, Markus. I have seen your steel used by Kevin Wilkins and some other friends of mine in Europe.
@*******,

I´m Markus Balbach from Germany.
My english is not the best, I hope you understand what I write!

It´s right, I supply company Böker since 01.2008 no longer with damascussteel.
But all the other companies in Solingen I supply with steel: Friedrich Hartkopf, Puma, Franz Güde, Eickhorn, Linder, Zwilling and several other companies, knifemakers and Jewelry Manufacturer in Germany and Europe.
If You klick "BALBACH-DAMAST®" on my webside, You can see, what steel I process for my different damascussteel.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Markus Balbach

daddy yo yo
12-08-2013, 12:58 PM
had a chance to fondle one of these yesterday in a store... it was a bit of a heureka-experience. honestly - and i know that some of you might cheer out, "sinner, lynch him" :curse::pirate1::viking::knife::knight::knifed::fl ame::guillotine: - i never liked bob kramer's knives. i always thought, those are chubby, and maybe even ugly. :butbutbut::peace: but i touched my first (zwilling) kramer yesterday, one of the 250 zwilling/kramer/balbach ones, and i must admit, that those chubby little bastards are pure pleasure in my hand...

so, i swore to myself, i am not going to buy this one, but maybe one of the cheaper zwilling-kramer knives!? :scratchhead: what so you guys think? there is 2 series, right, "euro carbon" made of 52100 in HRC61 with african blackwood handle, and "euro stainless" made of SG2 in HRC63 with micarta handle. i think i am drawn to the 52100 version... any thoughts?

Canadian
12-08-2013, 01:16 PM
Looks like it. Never underestimate the power of lending one's name to a product.

M


Not really. Other than the so-called "damascus", they look like very different knives...

gic
12-08-2013, 01:59 PM
I think the euroline Karmer is a great knife as well.

But I also think it needs a new name for its rather unique profile, it's not a gyuto, it is a nakari with a point - so a nyuto????

daddy yo yo
12-08-2013, 02:03 PM
I think the euroline Karmer is a great knife as well.

But I also think it needs a new name for its rather unique profile, it's not a gyuto, it is a nakari with a point - so a nyuto????
Why is the zwilling kramer gyuto rather a nakiri?

Lefty
12-08-2013, 02:05 PM
It has a cleaver feel at the heel, and the best tip you will ever see. They are great knives. I've owned one, made multiple pieces for them, and every time, I'm impressed.

Canadian
12-08-2013, 02:09 PM
I think the euroline Karmer is a great knife as well.

But I also think it needs a new name for its rather unique profile, it's not a gyuto, it is a nakari with a point - so a nyuto????

???


How about "Chef's Knife"--seems rather obvious to me. :scratch head:


"Gyuto" is the Japanese term for a European chef's knife. Why would you call a European chef's knife a gyuto let alone a nakiri???

Canadian
12-08-2013, 02:12 PM
It has a cleaver feel at the heel, and the best tip you will ever see. They are great knives. I've owned one, made multiple pieces for them, and every time, I'm impressed.

I held a regular 52100 carbon steel Kramer at a store once and was impressed. F&F, grind, etc. all seems top notch. I've even been contemplating picking one up "for fun", which is saying a lot for a minimalist like me.

Canadian
12-08-2013, 02:25 PM
It has a cleaver feel at the heel, and the best tip you will ever see. They are great knives. I've owned one, made multiple pieces for them, and every time, I'm impressed.

Which size Chef's do you have?

marc4pt0
12-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Go with the 52100. I have the slicer, 8"and 10" chef knives in carbon. Had an 8" Damascus but returned it. The carbon is just better in every way, and thinner with a finer distal taper towards the tip. I also have the parer in Damascus which I do like.

gic
12-08-2013, 03:25 PM
But the profile is so different then any of my other chefs knives, and certainly nothing like any gyuto I own. it seems a unique profile to me but of course I haven't seen every profile :- ).

I use it like a nakari actually - for cutting veggies

panda
12-08-2013, 03:42 PM
why does the handle curve downward?

Canadian
12-08-2013, 03:52 PM
But the profile is so different then any of my other chefs knives, and certainly nothing like any gyuto I own. it seems a unique profile to me but of course I haven't seen every profile :- ).

I use it like a nakari actually - for cutting veggies


The profile is exactly the same as most German chef's knives.

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/german-knives-072710-xlg.jpg

Of course the steel and grind are a lot better, hence why they have good cutting properties, but the cutting profile (cutting edge) is the same.

Not sure what you mean when you say you use it like a nakari (sic). I use my chef's knife for cutting vegetables too :D

gic
12-08-2013, 03:59 PM
Oh just that the blade was so darn wide, I just looked at it and it's wider than my Tojiro Nakari!

I hadn't thought about old fashioned german knives, haven't used one since I got turned on to j-knives

Lefty
12-08-2013, 04:39 PM
I had the 10", but sold it because I have an addiction. It's a knife that I might buy again, if the price is right. The profile is very German. In fact, we have a Henckels chef's knife at the hall with the same profile and it's the knife I use when I don't feel like taking out my Harner.

The tip position is higher than a J-knife would typically have, but it works, and works wonderfully. Honestly, I could have live with only my ZKramer as my chef knife, and I wouldn't have felt lacking in any way. One thing to keep in mind, however, is the sticktion. A tall profile like this one has often results in sticktion. Meh...an easy trade off, in my mind.

Benuser
12-08-2013, 07:48 PM
Lefty, please explain. I do understand that with a poor grinding there is more risk of sticking, and a taller profile combined with that poor grinding will only make things worse. On a narrower blade it won't be noticeable, fair enough.
But does it has to do with a higher or lower tip, and more or less belly?