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CompE
11-18-2011, 06:44 PM
It's about time to tell the wife what to buy me for Christmas. Whenever I start thinking that I want something, I find that I might just be crazy because I can find very few examples, if any, of what I am looking for. My second knife was a 180mm White #2 Tadatsuna Wa-Petty. There are not a lot of Wa-Petties in that size in carbon steel.

This time I thought I'd like to try white #1, and hardly any makers use white #1. I want a Wa handle, I like them and they send red-flags to my wife to be extra careful if she dares grab one, but 80% of suji's are western handled.

After searching 20 or more sites, the ONLY white #1 Wa-Suji I could find was at JCK. The "Fu Rin Ka Zan W1" (I'm looking at the W1-9 270). I don't know if I care for the stainless cladding since I don't care for the way they patina, but I could compromise. I also don't buy JCK's line about forged knives imperfections conveying the soul of the Samurai, and having that nonsense in the description makes me worry about the F&F. The price is well within the right neighborhood (at that price I'd ask for a Dojo Paring knife to go with it), but it almost seems too low again making me wonder about quality.

Has anyone tried any knives of this line? Are there any other white #1 270mm Wa-Suji options out there? Maybe I'm just crazy and should go for a different steel and/or a western handle?

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

SeanRogerPierce
11-18-2011, 06:53 PM
I would say, get the knife you like. Most likely you will not feel the difference between white #1 and #2.

Hattorichop
11-18-2011, 07:16 PM
The knife you are looking at at JCK is a fujiwara.
In my opinion that would be a great choice.

I also want one but a gyuto instead.

EdipisReks
11-18-2011, 07:31 PM
i have a Murray Carter white #1 wa-suji.

DwarvenChef
11-18-2011, 08:01 PM
Any reason it must be white #1? Not that it's a bad choice, just currious. I used to assign steels to a knife I wanted to buy and passed up allot of good knives because they didn't have the exact steel I was looking for. Now days I still have steels I want to have in my collection but they are not the first consideration.. Now days I leave the White #1 ideas for single bevels knives. I prefer a blue series for my suji's... but thats me

CompE
11-18-2011, 11:48 PM
Why white #1? I like white #2 and and haven't tried white #1 yet. Being a home cook in the middle of the desert (not much fish) I don't see myself getting any single beveled knives; maybe an Usaba or Mukimono to play with, but I'd be more likely to get a Nikiri to use. A suji slicer is probably the closest my collection will get to a yanagi.

From what I've read, white #1 gets stupid sharp and being just a home cook, the extra edge retention of blue is a little less important to me. My favorite part about this hobby is seeing just how stupid sharp I can get my knives. Having a stupid sharp knife to cook with is just a fringe benefit.

CompE
11-19-2011, 01:00 AM
Edipis, which Carter? Are his "Funayaki" the equivalent to a suji? Looking at his site, his 9.1 sun high grade Funayaki looks to be a bit more expensive than I was thinking and he only has one, Kuro-uchi in stock, a 5.9 sun narrow Funayaki at a reasonable price, but it's shorter than what I'm looking for.

tk59
11-19-2011, 02:36 AM
White 1 is hard to work, supposedly. There are no inexpensive (relatively speaking) white 1 options, as far as I know.

EdipisReks
11-19-2011, 04:25 AM
Edipis, which Carter? Are his "Funayaki" the equivalent to a suji? Looking at his site, his 9.1 sun high grade Funayaki looks to be a bit more expensive than I was thinking and he only has one, Kuro-uchi in stock, a 5.9 sun narrow Funayaki at a reasonable price, but it's shorter than what I'm looking for.

it's a 270mm kurouchi sujihiki. the funayaki is more like a gyuto. mine is the one on the bottom, in this pic.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7792/photo1opo.jpg

JohnnyChance
11-19-2011, 05:51 AM
You could custom order a Carter slicer in White #1....in time for next Christmas. And get something else in time for this one!

If you expanded to White #2 or Blue Super, you would get a lot more results. But I understand wanting a certain steel, I prefer to try a new steel with each knife I acquire as well. Maybe go Blue Super since you already have a White #2 blade.

Lefty
11-19-2011, 09:47 AM
I've used white 1 and 2 a lot, and the difference is basically unnoticeable. I think white 1 might get a little sharper a little bit quicker, but it seems to chip a little bit more easily as well. However, that could be a variety of things, from HT, to HRC to maker's preferred combination of toughness, sharpness, etc. I really don't think they're different enough to need one of each.
There are other great options in the carbon "family" to consider. You could try blue steels, W2, O1, 52100, Swedish carbon and the list goes on and on.

CompE
11-21-2011, 05:20 PM
There are always more and more options... let's get down to the heart of what I want and why...

The biggest hole that I have right now is a good slicer (home cook). Mainly for future holiday turkeys and the occasional roast; rotisserie or oven roasted or any pot roast that doesn't fall apart. I know that the rotisserie/oven roast crust might cause micro-chipping of the edge, but I'm prepared to deal with it. Based on the feel of my 240 Gyuto, I figured a 270 Suji would be a good length. I like Wa handles because I find them comfortable and they warn my wife and in-laws when they visit to be extra careful or don't touch them in the first place.

Second is my obsession with sharpening and getting my knives sharper than I ever thought possible. I love the white #2 that I have, and I've read white #1 is even better in that respect. I've read comments about 52100 generally getting sharper than other steels, but not like the poetic fervour that is reserved for white, and white #1 in particular. Actually, there's some pretty fierce 52100 knife-love out there as well.

And third, since my wife would insist on actually ordering it for me and it would have to be delivered by Christmas, it rules out any custom makers unless it's already already stocked somewhere. That rules out a lot of the steels (like 52100) that seem to only show up in American custom maker's knives.

With some more research, I'm getting a bit more comfortable with the JCK Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan. I previously associated Fujiwara strictly with the intro FKH series knives. I found Jon's blog entry where he met with Teruyasu Fujiwara and saw the white #1 Fujiwara knives on Jon's site, EE and JWW. The others (Maboroshi no Meito line) were thinner and about twice the price, but otherwise a similar construction. Since I'm not planning on using the suji to cut anything too hard, I think that the 3.3mm thickness wouldn't cause wedging issues. I am a little curious why this line is half the price, but I'm also thinking I should stop complaining since something on the Maboroshi no Meito line is a bit expensive for how rarely I'd use it.

Any other thoughts or suggestions given the above?

Pensacola Tiger
11-21-2011, 05:28 PM
Why not a Konosuke 270 wa-sujihiki from Jon Broida's JKI?

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/konosuke-sakai/konosuke-270mm-white-2-wa-sujihiki.html#

It's not white #1, but as has been said, you won't be able to tell the difference.

JBroida
11-21-2011, 05:31 PM
There are always more and more options... let's get down to the heart of what I want and why...

The biggest hole that I have right now is a good slicer (home cook). Mainly for future holiday turkeys and the occasional roast; rotisserie or oven roasted or any pot roast that doesn't fall apart. I know that the rotisserie/oven roast crust might cause micro-chipping of the edge, but I'm prepared to deal with it. Based on the feel of my 240 Gyuto, I figured a 270 Suji would be a good length. I like Wa handles because I find them comfortable and they warn my wife and in-laws when they visit to be extra careful or don't touch them in the first place.

Second is my obsession with sharpening and getting my knives sharper than I ever thought possible. I love the white #2 that I have, and I've read white #1 is even better in that respect. I've read comments about 52100 generally getting sharper than other steels, but not like the poetic fervour that is reserved for white, and white #1 in particular. Actually, there's some pretty fierce 52100 knife-love out there as well.

And third, since my wife would insist on actually ordering it for me and it would have to be delivered by Christmas, it rules out any custom makers unless it's already already stocked somewhere. That rules out a lot of the steels (like 52100) that seem to only show up in American custom maker's knives.

With some more research, I'm getting a bit more comfortable with the JCK Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan. I previously associated Fujiwara strictly with the intro FKH series knives. I found Jon's blog entry where he met with Teruyasu Fujiwara and saw the white #1 Fujiwara knives on Jon's site, EE and JWW. The others (Maboroshi no Meito line) were thinner and about twice the price, but otherwise a similar construction. Since I'm not planning on using the suji to cut anything too hard, I think that the 3.3mm thickness wouldn't cause wedging issues. I am a little curious why this line is half the price, but I'm also thinking I should stop complaining since something on the Maboroshi no Meito line is a bit expensive for how rarely I'd use it.

Any other thoughts or suggestions given the above?

The fujiwara from the FKH and all that is a completely different company than fujiwara teruyasu for what its worth. Even located in entirely different areas.

Hattorichop
11-21-2011, 06:07 PM
The white #1 suji you are looking at is also sold at knifewear. The 270 suji sells for $480 and it has a d shaped handle with a black resin collar. A lesser quality handle in my opinion. Get the knife from JCK, it's a steal!

tk59
11-21-2011, 06:29 PM
...Second is my obsession with sharpening and getting my knives sharper than I ever thought possible. I love the white #2 that I have, and I've read white #1 is even better in that respect. I've read comments about 52100 generally getting sharper than other steels, but not like the poetic fervour that is reserved for white, and white #1 in particular. Actually, there's some pretty fierce 52100 knife-love out there as well...Maybe it's just me but I've been in your shoes (and still am to an extent). There are knives that really don't take an incredible great edge. Nobody here really uses them. Stainless, in general is tough to get super sharp and tends to lose that crazy sharpness rather quickly. Non-stainless, in general, seems to take wicked edges and hold them better than stainless, acidic environments notwithstanding. I don't like the edge from white 1 any better than a number of other carbon steels.

SpikeC
11-21-2011, 06:46 PM
O1 rules!

CompE
11-21-2011, 06:53 PM
The fujiwara from the FKH and all that is a completely different company than fujiwara teruyasu for what its worth. Even located in entirely different areas.

Thanks for pointing that out. I see now, Fujiwara Kanefusa vs. Fujiwara Teruyasu. Should there be any cause for concern on this JCK line of knives? EE puts Fujiwara Teruyasu white #1 knives at HRC of 64-65, while JCK puts it at 63.

JBroida
11-21-2011, 06:56 PM
no clue... i've never used the JCK ones... i've used a lot of stuff from Fujiwara, but i dont know if they are doing something different with them (entirely possible). Cant really comment from any personal experience with those. However, normally, his knives tend to be on the harder side in my experience.