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Eamon Burke
11-20-2011, 01:51 AM
He doesn't shave his goatee, so Murray Carter won't listen to him(just kiddin, MC), but this guy does a bada** demonstration. I wrote an article about this very thing recently, I would have loved to have had this video to prove the principle!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSTE6WLB0Y&feature=related


If you can shave with obsidian, and nobody uses kitchen knives made from obsidian(for good reasons), then shaving is not a good indicator of a good kitchen edge.

tk59
11-20-2011, 02:05 AM
...If you can shave with obsidian, and nobody uses kitchen knives made from obsidian(for good reasons), then shaving is not a good indicator of a good kitchen edge.This guy probably does use obsidian for kitchen knives, lol. Regardless, your logic is flawed. While it is not a definitive test, shaving is, in fact, a fine test of useful sharpness.

Rottman
11-20-2011, 09:55 AM
Didn't MC shave with a spoon. What does it prove then?

Eamon Burke
11-20-2011, 10:11 AM
It proves that he's pretty good at shaving. Shaving is shaving and you don't shave your food! And if you do, you might not want to share that.

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 10:23 AM
an obsidian edge is far sharper than anything you can get with steel because of the way it fractures.

slowtyper
11-20-2011, 10:31 AM
very cool, did not know that about obsidian. I will remember it in case I'm ever in a situation where I'm held captive by my arch nemesis in his private office where he has a nice decorative display of core obsidian and a tigers tooth.

tk59
11-20-2011, 10:41 AM
Didn't MC shave with a spoon. What does it prove then?It indicates that MC can likely cut food with his spoon, lol.

SeanRogerPierce
11-20-2011, 11:20 AM
The spoon was special forged by him from Blue Super as far as I remember.

Rottman
11-20-2011, 01:08 PM
I know MC made the spoon for the demo, it was made from white #1.

Eamon's conclusion would work with machetes, axes and whatever people use to shave: "If you can shave with obsidian, and nobody uses kitchen knives made from obsidian(for good reasons), then shaving is not a good indicator of a good kitchen edge."

mr drinky
11-20-2011, 01:27 PM
an obsidian edge is far sharper than anything you can get with steel because of the way it fractures.

Interesting. Have you ever browsed the flint knapped knives at flintknappers.com? A lot of them are really cool looking (and a lot cheaper than what we buy on this forum).

I like this one.

2506

Flint Knife (http://flintknappers.com/detail.php?pid=MzA3OA%3D%3D).

k.

Mike Davis
11-20-2011, 01:37 PM
Didn't MC shave with a spoon. What does it prove then?

It proves he can sharpen the sh*t out of a spoon!
Seriously...Obsidian is an incredibly, incredibly sharp material. The problem with it is it has no edge stability. If you were to smack a cutting board with it, it would fracture and leave fractures in the product you are cutting. No one wants obsidian in their mouth, as it is pretty much the sharpest thing known to man. Shaving goes to show that there is great edge geometry, facial hair if far harder to shave than arm hair. If i make a knife sharp enough to shave facial hair, it should be sharp enough to cut pretty much anything it will ever need to cut...IMO

RRLOVER
11-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Shaving in a video with a knife you made is an indicator that you have some sort of marketing skills.There is nothing more to it then selling knives.

Eamon Burke
11-20-2011, 04:04 PM
Obsidian is an incredibly, incredibly sharp material. The problem with it is it has no edge stability. If you were to smack a cutting board with it, it would fracture and leave fractures in the product you are cutting.

My point exactly. Yet extremes of sharpness is the main focus for a lot of people with their kitchen knives, and shaving requires, in the very least, an extremely sharp edge. If extreme sharpness was the #1 need in a kitchen knife, the highest performance knives would be made from obsidian. We stopped using obsidian in the kitchen altogether a few thousand years ago because extreme sharpness isn't the #1 issue.

To me, the shave test and other sharpness tests are just feeding the misconception that it's all about sharp sharp sharp all the time. It would beg the question why they don't just use straight razors for sashimi?

Pensacola Tiger
11-20-2011, 05:07 PM
My point exactly. Yet extremes of sharpness is the main focus for a lot of people with their kitchen knives, and shaving requires, in the very least, an extremely sharp edge. If extreme sharpness was the #1 need in a kitchen knife, the highest performance knives would be made from obsidian. We stopped using obsidian in the kitchen altogether a few thousand years ago because extreme sharpness isn't the #1 issue.

To me, the shave test and other sharpness tests are just feeding the misconception that it's all about sharp sharp sharp all the time. It would beg the question why they don't just use straight razors for sashimi?

I seem to remember a YouTube video of someone using a straight razor to slice a garlic clove.

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 05:09 PM
I seem to remember a YouTube video of someone using a straight razor to slice a garlic clove.

in Goodfellas a utility razor is used. i tried it, and found i could make as thin of cuts with a good gyuto and some technique.

tk59
11-20-2011, 05:27 PM
The reason why Eamon's rationale is flawed is because it implies that a hypothetical steel kitchen knife with an edge as sharp as obsidian would not be suitable for kitchen use.

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 05:28 PM
a hypothetical steel kitchen knife with an edge as sharp as obsidian would probably travel through time and kill Hitler.

tk59
11-20-2011, 05:37 PM
a hypothetical steel kitchen knife with an edge as sharp as obsidian would probably travel through time and kill Hitler.What's wrong with that?

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 05:38 PM
What's wrong with that?

absolutely nothing. as long as killing Hitler doesn't let the robot death squads from super-squirrel space invade, because they would be even worse.

tk59
11-20-2011, 05:40 PM
hmm. hadn't considered that... you might have something there.

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 05:40 PM
i try to look at all the angles.

Eamon Burke
11-20-2011, 05:53 PM
The reason why Eamon's rationale is flawed is because it implies that a hypothetical steel kitchen knife with an edge as sharp as obsidian would not be suitable for kitchen use.

No, it doesn't. Allow me to clarify my point visually.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IAL4gDWHwKw/TsmHrBjKJkI/AAAAAAAAAUw/ANkkhN9ekOM/s576/Edge%252520Venn.jpg


I don't disagree with the point you make; the flaw you cited was just a miscommunication.

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 05:55 PM
i would shave my balls with any of my knives, if i were so inclined, and they all stay sharp for pretty reasonable amounts of time when used for more typical kitchen knife tasks. i'm not really sure what this thread is about, as sharp can stay sharp.

Eamon Burke
11-20-2011, 05:56 PM
About the Hitler thing...I guess we need to hit the strops! Where's that .001 micron compound?


And the point of the thread is that:
1. Face shave tests for kitchen knives are stupid.
2. That guy is a total badass.

tk59
11-20-2011, 05:59 PM
i would shave my balls with any of my knives, if i were so inclined, and they all stay sharp for pretty reasonable amounts of time when used for more typical kitchen knife tasks. i'm not really sure what this thread is about, as sharp can stay sharp.Uh... Thank you for that visual...
@Eamon: sounds good... except for the face-shaving with kitchen knives being stupid. I cannot agree with that having shaved exclusively with kitchen knives for about 4 months.:)

EdipisReks
11-20-2011, 06:00 PM
testicular shaving is the next stage, definitely.

mr drinky
11-20-2011, 10:29 PM
I've never once considered putting any of my knives near my scrotum, but that is just me.

Stropping on the other hand....

k.

tk59
11-21-2011, 12:07 AM
You know, I seem to remember another thread months ago going into stropping at some point and then rapidly degenerating to this sort of talk...

slowtyper
11-21-2011, 12:50 AM
I've never once considered putting any of my knives near my scrotum, but that is just me.

Stropping on the other hand....

k.
I literally LOL'd for once.

"come on baby just hold the angle steady and pull the strop back.....no don't whip it off just stop and lift my balls and do it again

memorael
01-03-2012, 02:06 AM
Anyone know how to get the edges in that purple zone? seems like thats where the shi t is.