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View Full Version : Why do most factory edges suck?



karloevaristo
11-28-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't get this....

if you're a knife maker and you want your knives to sell and earn a good reputation from knife nuts and normal knife users, why would you put (as we describe here in KKF) a factory edge that suck?

Why not put an edge that would impress even the nuttiest of nuts here?

Is it because they're putting edges that are more obtuse, so that it'll last longer?

Or blades that are thicker than they are suppose to be, so that it'll be more durable?

Cause I don't believe those guys can't put a great edge in their knives... I bet my money that they can.... But they just chose not to go all out on their sharpening... Or is it because it's time consuming?

What do you guys think?

What knives do you think comes OOTB with a killer edge? but at the same time is exceptionally made...

jm2hill
11-28-2011, 03:14 PM
I think its because the edge we love is crazier than what you actually need. For most people that OOTB edge would be perfect!

Eamon Burke
11-28-2011, 03:38 PM
1. So it is easy to put your own edge on it.
2. The are knife makers, not chefs or sharpeners.
3. So it doesn't fail and piss off the verbal minority.

Benuser
11-28-2011, 03:56 PM
It won't be easy to find an edge that suits all users; therefore it would just raise costs without a real benefit.

Cadillac J
11-28-2011, 06:27 PM
I always figured most Japanese makers didn't put an edge on their knives because in their culture, most chefs and people sharpen themselves and would rather put on their own....so it would take time/money to do, yet would be resharpened anyways by the customer. Obviously there are exceptions such as Carter and other makers/brands that do put on a satisfactory edge out of the box.

Can't comment on the North American makers knives though...do they sharpen before shipping? My only experience is a DT ITK from the original batch and it didn't have much of an edge to start with.

It has never really bothered me, as I like to put my own edge on immediately upon receiving a new knife...however, if you asked me about 2.5 years ago, I'm sure it would of been more important for it to arrive sharp.

stevenStefano
11-28-2011, 06:38 PM
I think it is nice if a knife comes with a good edge OOTB but it doesn't really matter. It is sorta like having a nice box, it is a nice final touch but it isn't a big deal

Benuser
11-28-2011, 06:50 PM
Last time I encountered a nice edge was with a Misono Swedish Carbon: well polished convexed edge but I didn't ask for a 35 degree inclusive angle. And the shoulders weren't removed.

Sarge
11-29-2011, 03:45 PM
I think it is a matter of time and money spent when: Some makers do expect you to put the edge you want one it. Many know you'll put your edge on it anyways, and some probably know that, the semi ok edge will be fine for most of the people buying the knife in the first place.

Mike Davis
11-29-2011, 05:41 PM
As a maker, I didn't have a lot of sharpening equipment to do a crazy edge. Now I am aquiring stuff to do a really nice, stropped edge aand all of my knives will be shipped as sharp as I can get them OOTB. I know a LOT of chefs like to do the edges the way that suits them, but I figure if you can do a nice edge, why not?

SpikeC
11-29-2011, 05:47 PM
In our litigious society if a knife is really sharp the maker could get sued for letting the customer cut themselves.

EdipisReks
11-29-2011, 07:56 PM
i wish Masamoto didn't sharpen the KS series, as, while the edge on my KS gyuto was sharp, it was uneven and added some nice scratches to both flats of the blade. i haven't had a knife yet that didn't have a usable edge, including the Sabatiers i bought from TBT, but i saw my soon-to-be MIL's knives at Thanksgiving, so my standards of "usable" may have changed, recently.

tk59
11-30-2011, 12:22 AM
I think it's mostly the bottom line. You can pay a professional something on the order of the cost of your knife for an amazing edge most people won't appreciate or you can have someone zip it across a grinding wheel a couple of times and call it good for essentially nothing.

slowtyper
11-30-2011, 12:38 AM
i wish Masamoto didn't sharpen the KS series, as, while the edge on my KS gyuto was sharp, it was uneven and added some nice scratches to both flats of the blade. i haven't had a knife yet that didn't have a usable edge, including the Sabatiers i bought from TBT, but i saw my soon-to-be MIL's knives at Thanksgiving, so my standards of "usable" may have changed, recently.
I read that when you buy a knife at masamoto tsukiji they will sharpen it for you. Is it rude to ask them not to sharpen it?

tk59
11-30-2011, 12:43 AM
I read that when you buy a knife at masamoto tsukiji they will sharpen it for you. Is it rude to ask them not to sharpen it?Is is rude to sell a knife with a wavy bevel on it?

JBroida
11-30-2011, 12:45 AM
I read that when you buy a knife at masamoto tsukiji they will sharpen it for you. Is it rude to ask them not to sharpen it?

its totally fine... just make sure you do it quick... they will assume you want them to sharpen it for you.

slowtyper
11-30-2011, 12:55 AM
Is this common when buying a knife in Japan (the sharpen after you purchase)? Anyways thanks for the input,....first time going to Japan soon and going to buy some knives, don't want to offend or step on any toes.

JBroida
11-30-2011, 12:55 AM
depends on the place... many charge extra for that service

NO ChoP!
11-30-2011, 01:02 AM
Does it matter if the ootb is sharp when its said that edge is probably already fatigued and the metal should be removed anyway?

Benuser
11-30-2011, 02:47 AM
A very sharp observation!

Larrin
11-30-2011, 10:59 AM
For many users a coarse edge will last longer than a highly polished one anyway.

MadMel
11-30-2011, 12:19 PM
In our litigious society if a knife is really sharp the maker could get sued for letting the customer cut themselves.

I think this is one of the reasons.. Big knife makers like henckels, wusthof etc have their knives on display in the open in departmental stores. At least they do here in Singapore. Maybe they are afraid that some kid may get clumsy and cut themselves and then they get sued?

Benuser
11-30-2011, 01:25 PM
For many users a coarse edge will last longer than a highly polished one anyway.That might be the case with properly sharpened coarse edges. Out of the box you may find incomplete edges with bevels that just don't meet, or edges with a remaining wire edge. I found edges that failed after three slices of a cuncumber. So the concern is not exactly about edge refinement.

JohnnyChance
11-30-2011, 02:39 PM
It's not really that complicated. Factory knives, it's a cost issue. Most people's expectations are not as high as ours, a machine or belt edge is more than acceptable. Why pay someone extra to finish an edge that most people wont notice and wont last as long?

Maker knives, they just dont sharpen as much as we do. They spend their time making knives, not sharpening them. Obviously not true of all makers, Carters and Daves have been known to have a few good edges. :razz:

tk59
11-30-2011, 03:18 PM
I actually thought Devin's edges have been very good, just not as refined as I like them.

half_hack
11-30-2011, 04:07 PM
the factory edge on most people's first japanese knife, though it can be improved on, is still a million times better than the edge they were used to...

jmforge
11-30-2011, 09:27 PM
You can put a pretty mean edge on a field/hunting knife with a fine grit belt and a little elbow grease on a good strop. That is probably what many knifemakers, myself included, have always done, but super thin kitchen knives are a different breed of cat from what I have seen on here.
It's not really that complicated. Factory knives, it's a cost issue. Most people's expectations are not as high as ours, a machine or belt edge is more than acceptable. Why pay someone extra to finish an edge that most people wont notice and wont last as long?

Maker knives, they just dont sharpen as much as we do. They spend their time making knives, not sharpening them. Obviously not true of all makers, Carters and Daves have been known to have a few good edges. :razz:

JohnnyChance
11-30-2011, 09:50 PM
You can put a pretty mean edge on a field/hunting knife with a fine grit belt and a little elbow grease on a good strop. That is probably what many knifemakers, myself included, have always done, but super thin kitchen knives are a different breed of cat from what I have seen on here.

Well when those toys sit in drawers and on shelves in the owner's home, any edge will do! :razz:

jmforge
12-01-2011, 05:52 PM
Eh, hacking up two wild hogs without having to touch the edge is hard to do in a drawer. :lol2:
Well when those toys sit in drawers and on shelves in the owner's home, any edge will do! :razz: