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JohnnyChance
12-08-2011, 04:40 AM
I am sure many of you got this email, but for those who missed it, here it is. Bob is now selling some "ready made custom" knives for sale at their regular (for Bob) pricing, no auction format. I assume he will still be doing some auctions, but he will also be selling knives in this manner, at least this time. Instead of an auction, you select which knife you are interested in, your name is entered into a pool, and then when the time period ends, one of those interested is selected at random. Sounds pretty simple, and you can get a Kramer for way cheaper than his auctions! I said cheaper, not cheap.

So what does he have up right now? How about a 52100 straight steel 8" chefs knife with a euro handle in snakewood?
2861
$2,750.

Up next, a 9" chefs knives in whirlwind damascus and a euro style amboyna burl handle!
2862
Yours for $5,625.

And finally, because your baguettes won't cut themselves, a 10" bread knife in ladder damascus with a euro handle in crazy (for Bob) dyed buckeye burl:
2863
Only $6,250! That's 250 Forschner Fibrox 10" bread knives!


Go on, put your name in, you deserve it!

Timthebeaver
12-08-2011, 05:06 AM
Is it just me, or in a hypothetical world sans Kramer, a knife with that profile (looking at that 8'' chefs) would be roundly panned on here. Personally I think it's awful.

JohnnyChance
12-08-2011, 05:25 AM
Even is the current world WITH Kramer, his profile gets plenty of criticism. Probably the #1 complaint of the Zwilling version. It isn't as bad as it looks, it is taller than most/all j-knives, but other than that, the edge profile is nearly the same as a Masamoto with a snub-nosed tip.

ecchef
12-08-2011, 07:50 AM
Is it just me, or in a hypothetical world sans Kramer, a knife with that profile (looking at that 8'' chefs) would be roundly panned on here. Personally I think it's awful.

:word:

Looks a lot like that crap from Wildfire to me.

Pensacola Tiger
12-08-2011, 08:06 AM
:word:

Looks a lot like that crap from Wildfire to me.

I think you've got it backwards. The Wildfire is a attempt to copy the Kramer, as Alex Blue is doing also. However, the reason Wildfire Cutlery is "panned" is the geometry and heat treatment, not the profile.

oivind_dahle
12-08-2011, 08:36 AM
I would like to state that I never ever can afford a Bob Kramer custom!

Marko Tsourkan
12-08-2011, 08:39 AM
I am sure many of you got this email, but for those who missed it, here it is. Bob is now selling some "ready made custom" knives for sale at their regular (for Bob) pricing, no auction format. I assume he will still be doing some auctions, but he will also be selling knives in this manner, at least this time. Instead of an auction, you select which knife you are interested in, your name is entered into a pool, and then when the time period ends, one of those interested is selected at random. Sounds pretty simple, and you can get a Kramer for way cheaper than his auctions! I said cheaper, not cheap.

So what does he have up right now? How about a 52100 straight steel 8" chefs knife with a euro handle in snakewood?
2861
$2,750.

Up next, a 9" chefs knives in whirlwind damascus and a euro style amboyna burl handle!
2862
Yours for $5,625.

And finally, because your baguettes won't cut themselves, a 10" bread knife in ladder damascus with a euro handle in crazy (for Bob) dyed buckeye burl:
2863
Only $6,250! That's 250 Forschner Fibrox 10" bread knives!


Go on, put your name in, you deserve it!

He must have heard of all mid-tech and production knives coming to the market, and got into gear. :)

NO ChoP!
12-08-2011, 10:41 AM
I would like to state that I never ever can afford a Bob Kramer custom!

Yes, maybe he should offer financing; five year loan @ 5.5% interest; and an extended warranty program.... :no:

Mike Davis
12-08-2011, 10:55 AM
The only reason that Kramer's knives are so ridiculously expensive, is some dumbass bought one that he priced that high...And that got him on tv talking about all of the fictional magic powers of "pattern welded damascus"....ugh. Heya guys...Just so you know, my damascus knives are going to start at $4k....mmmmk?:nono::muahaha::crossfingers:

tgraypots
12-08-2011, 10:55 AM
C'mon, everyone here knows Kramer has upped the ante for every (non-Japanese) kitchen knife maker. If I had never seen the recommendation of his work in Cook's Illustrated several years ago, I would probably be happy as a clam with my 8" MAC, totally oblivious to this whole world of cutting edge (pun intended) handmade kitchen knives. Instead, it set me on a new path. Thanks Bob for being so passionate about your craft, and an excellent (small) businessman. If a large dinnerware manufacturer asked me to design dinnerware for them, and stayed true to my designs, I'd have to jump on it too.

tk59
12-08-2011, 11:05 AM
I personally don't like Kramers but I'm honestly surprised at the lack of love on this thread. I thought a lot of folks here liked them.

Andrew H
12-08-2011, 11:56 AM
Personally I like how the 9" looks, but that's just me. Also did he up his prices or are they just higher for the ready made knives? It looks like we are at $625 an inch for damascus now.

Iceman91
12-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Personally I like how the 9" looks, but that's just me. Also did he up his prices or are they just higher for the ready made knives? It looks like we are at $625 an inch for damascus now.

Yea i also thought that the straight carbon knife would be less than that.

Timthebeaver
12-08-2011, 12:22 PM
Yea i also thought that the straight carbon knife would be less than that.

Doesn't look like great value, especially considering a reviewer who owns both the Zwilling Kramer and the real McCoy thought there was no discernible difference in performance. What does the 8" Z. Kramer cost? $300?

unkajonet
12-08-2011, 12:32 PM
I personally don't like Kramers but I'm honestly surprised at the lack of love on this thread. I thought a lot of folks here liked them.

I think part of the "problem" might be that Kramer doesn't really interact with the knife knuts. Hoss, Del, Pierre, Burke, and all the other custom guys, all have a forum presence. I haven't seen Kramer post anything, anywhere. Ever.

jmforge
12-08-2011, 12:37 PM
That is probably because he doesn't have to have a forum presence. Not that need is a requirement. There are guys who have waiting lists longer than a bad stretch of west Texas back road, but they still come around. With that said, Jerry Fisk doesn't need to be on the forums but he goes on them, if for no other reason than to make certain that he continues to have a multi-year backlog of order.
I think part of the "problem" might be that Kramer doesn't really interact with the knife knuts. Hoss, Del, Pierre, Burke, and all the other custom guys, all have a forum presence. I haven't seen Kramer post anything, anywhere. Ever.

tkern
12-08-2011, 12:48 PM
I could never see myself buying a Kramer. Even if I was flush with money. I don't like the profiles and the mark up on name alone is ridiculous. For that money I'd pick up a sweet Doi or that amazing yanagiba that Carter had made a couple years back (complete with handle and saya).

Larrin
12-08-2011, 01:10 PM
Just because he doesn't frequent the forums often doesn't mean that the knives need to be so brutally criticized. Generally people on the forums are civil enough to avoid such heavy-handed criticism for the knifemakers that use this forum.

Timthebeaver
12-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Just because he doesn't frequent the forums often doesn't mean that the knives need to be so brutally criticized. Generally people on the forums are civil enough to avoid such heavy-handed criticism for the knifemakers that use this forum.

I hope my comments were not construed as brutal. I just don't like the knife, but I do understand that is the work of an excellent craftsman.

mhlee
12-08-2011, 02:25 PM
I think part of the "problem" might be that Kramer doesn't really interact with the knife knuts. Hoss, Del, Pierre, Burke, and all the other custom guys, all have a forum presence. I haven't seen Kramer post anything, anywhere. Ever.

I distinctly recalling him posting a few times on the other forum. However, it was very short lived.

Kyle
12-08-2011, 02:33 PM
C'mon, everyone here knows Kramer has upped the ante for every (non-Japanese) kitchen knife maker. If I had never seen the recommendation of his work in Cook's Illustrated several years ago, I would probably be happy as a clam with my 8" MAC, totally oblivious to this whole world of cutting edge (pun intended) handmade kitchen knives. Instead, it set me on a new path. Thanks Bob for being so passionate about your craft, and an excellent (small) businessman. If a large dinnerware manufacturer asked me to design dinnerware for them, and stayed true to my designs, I'd have to jump on it too.

I read an article on Kramer's knives and that got me interested in the process of hand making knives, which then led me to find out about Japanese knives.

WildBoar
12-08-2011, 09:37 PM
I distinctly recalling him posting a few times on the other forum. However, it was very short lived."The Seeker" I think.

Poor guy probably lives out a suitcase 3/4s of the time, as SlT and other shuttle him around for appearances/ seminars. Doubt he has the 2 hours/ day to spend on the forum that I seem to find :O

Eamon Burke
12-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Yeah that would have been cool.

Us knife folks on the forums should remember that we are not industry experts, we are enthusiasts, like the car junkies meeting in the parking lot of a school every month with hoods open. Forums are fun first, even if a lot can be learned.

I encourage his success, and love to see him raising the bar for folks.

James
12-08-2011, 10:33 PM
I distinctly recalling him posting a few times on the other forum. However, it was very short lived.

I also remember this; particularly one incident in which there was a fake kramer up on ebay.

jmforge
12-08-2011, 11:53 PM
Mr. Kramer has been around for a little while and a lot of guys in his position and many who are not no longer come on the forums, sometimes because of certain people's behavior. Obviously, not all forums are created equal, but there has been enough foolishness on some of them that people have gotten turned off. Knifemakers are artists and sometimes they act accordingly, just as knife collectors are as passionate and opinionated as any other hard core group of collectors and they also misbehave on occasion.:D

NO ChoP!
12-09-2011, 02:06 PM
I dig my Zwilling Kramer very much, just not at 6K....

If I win, the first $10k gets it......that's a bargain! LOL

AFKitchenknivesguy
12-09-2011, 03:10 PM
The criticism of the profile is understandable, and you have to like tall knives to appreciate. I enjoy using mine, although I do have shorter knives for food (meat for example) that I want more of a slicer action for. It feels great in the hand, is very light, and acts wonderful cutting. Is it worth that kind of money? For a knife, no. There are plenty of people that make equally and arguably better knives. For a custom knife from the media's most famous and celebrated knifemaker currently in the US, you are not paying for just the knife. You are paying for the artistry. I'll never know why someone pays $500 for a bottle of wine, $10000 for a painting a kid could have done, or $200000 for a vehicle. I don't make that kind of money, but if I did...

jaybett
12-09-2011, 05:14 PM
The forums response to Kramer, has always struck me as odd. Early on the forums didn't know what to make of his knives. With their price being double of a gyuto, and the odd profile. By the time the forums, figured out that Kramer's were special the prices had gone up dramatically.

All of us, have been astounded at some of the prices that have been paid for Kramer knives. The argument usually is, there is no way that a knife is worth $5000 to $10,000, and as a knife, I agree. But at these prices, what is being bought is the work of a master craftsman or artist.

I saw a piece on a furniture maker, who was using sculpting techniques to make dressers. At the end of the piece it was mentioned that the dressers started at $10,000, and he had a waiting list. Was it worth $10,000 as a dresser? No. As a piece of fine furniture? The maker had a lot of people who were saying yes with their wallets.

Many times, its been commented, that we are knife nuts, who expect our knives to perform at high levels, and want the best. And the best is defined as a thin 240mm gyuto, with convex edges. When a knife has a different profile, then the 240mm gyuto, the forum doesn't seem to know, what to make of it.

In a forum full of 240mm gyutos, it seems like the Kramer Zwilling would be a breath of fresh air. Overall the knife is thin. The tip is very thin, which is the ideal of some members. The bull nose works surprisingly well on onions, better then the gyutos I've used. Past the nose, the rest of the knife is flat. Another forum ideal. The steel is easy to sharpen.

Mr. Chance has mentioned that the Kramer Zwilling doesn't hold its edge, as long as other knives. Considering how easy it is to sharpen, it appears to be a good trade off. Flat edges, while nice for chopping, are not so good for walking a knife through food.

All in all, the Kramer Zwilling is a knife that is worth consideration by a knife nut.


Jay

jmforge
12-09-2011, 05:47 PM
Well, some people might joke that as far as folks on this forum are concerned, if it isn't a 240mm gyuto, then it obviously isn't Japanese and when the barbarian US Marines invade your kitchen, you won't be able to use the knife to cut through their machine gun's barrel AND their bodies with one swipe and still slice daikon into a pretty, pretty flower afterwords.:D
The forums response to Kramer, has always struck me as odd. Early on the forums didn't know what to make of his knives. With their price being double of a gyuto, and the odd profile. By the time the forums, figured out that Kramer's were special the prices had gone up dramatically.

All of us, have been astounded at some of the prices that have been paid for Kramer knives. The argument usually is, there is no way that a knife is worth $5000 to $10,000, and as a knife, I agree. But at these prices, what is being bought is the work of a master craftsman or artist.

I saw a piece on a furniture maker, who was using sculpting techniques to make dressers. At the end of the piece it was mentioned that the dressers started at $10,000, and he had a waiting list. Was it worth $10,000 as a dresser? No. As a piece of fine furniture? The maker had a lot of people who were saying yes with their wallets.

Many times, its been commented, that we are knife nuts, who expect our knives to perform at high levels, and want the best. And the best is defined as a thin 240mm gyuto, with convex edges. When a knife has a different profile, then the 240mm gyuto, the forum doesn't seem to know, what to make of it.

In a forum full of 240mm gyutos, it seems like the Kramer Zwilling would be a breath of fresh air. Overall the knife is thin. The tip is very thin, which is the ideal of some members. The bull nose works surprisingly well on onions, better then the gyutos I've used. Past the nose, the rest of the knife is flat. Another forum ideal. The steel is easy to sharpen.

Mr. Chance has mentioned that the Kramer Zwilling doesn't hold its edge, as long as other knives. Considering how easy it is to sharpen, it appears to be a good trade off. Flat edges, while nice for chopping, are not so good for walking a knife through food.

All in all, the Kramer Zwilling is a knife that is worth consideration by a knife nut.


Jay

Marko Tsourkan
12-09-2011, 05:57 PM
I think that ever going-up prices for Bob's knives is a good thing, as those who can't afford custom ones, and don't want to settle for a factory-made, give other makers a second look.

Everybody wins.

kalaeb
12-09-2011, 06:06 PM
I am obviously mistaken but for some reason I was thinking his straight carbon was closer to 150.00/inch.

RRLOVER
12-09-2011, 06:06 PM
I just want to say that my "Salty version" Kramer is/was the best performing knife I have ever owned/used period........It's not just hype.I almost wished I did not sell it:sad0:

tk59
12-09-2011, 11:39 PM
...In a forum full of 240mm gyutos, it seems like the Kramer Zwilling would be a breath of fresh air. Overall the knife is thin. The tip is very thin, which is the ideal of some members. The bull nose works surprisingly well on onions, better then the gyutos I've used. Past the nose, the rest of the knife is flat. Another forum ideal. The steel is easy to sharpen...I haven't taken the time to check out the Zwilling version but I have tried out the Shuns which feel heavy, a bit awkward and unresponsive. It looks different, but I wouldn't say it was a breath of fresh air. Maybe the Zwillings are different.

jmforge
12-09-2011, 11:44 PM
After handling the 8 inch Shun and Zwilling briefly at SLT in Sarasota (they didn't have the 10 inchers) It sure appeared to me that the Zwilling knife was a considerable improvement over the Shun just in the way that it felt even to a kitchen knife dummy like me.
I haven't taken the time to check out the Zwilling version but I have tried out the Shuns which feel heavy, a bit awkward and unresponsive. It looks different, but I wouldn't say it was a breath of fresh air. Maybe the Zwillings are different.

AFKitchenknivesguy
12-10-2011, 01:58 AM
The forums response to Kramer, has always struck me as odd. Early on the forums didn't know what to make of his knives. With their price being double of a gyuto, and the odd profile. By the time the forums, figured out that Kramer's were special the prices had gone up dramatically.

All of us, have been astounded at some of the prices that have been paid for Kramer knives. The argument usually is, there is no way that a knife is worth $5000 to $10,000, and as a knife, I agree. But at these prices, what is being bought is the work of a master craftsman or artist.

I saw a piece on a furniture maker, who was using sculpting techniques to make dressers. At the end of the piece it was mentioned that the dressers started at $10,000, and he had a waiting list. Was it worth $10,000 as a dresser? No. As a piece of fine furniture? The maker had a lot of people who were saying yes with their wallets.

Many times, its been commented, that we are knife nuts, who expect our knives to perform at high levels, and want the best. And the best is defined as a thin 240mm gyuto, with convex edges. When a knife has a different profile, then the 240mm gyuto, the forum doesn't seem to know, what to make of it.

In a forum full of 240mm gyutos, it seems like the Kramer Zwilling would be a breath of fresh air. Overall the knife is thin. The tip is very thin, which is the ideal of some members. The bull nose works surprisingly well on onions, better then the gyutos I've used. Past the nose, the rest of the knife is flat. Another forum ideal. The steel is easy to sharpen.

Mr. Chance has mentioned that the Kramer Zwilling doesn't hold its edge, as long as other knives. Considering how easy it is to sharpen, it appears to be a good trade off. Flat edges, while nice for chopping, are not so good for walking a knife through food.

All in all, the Kramer Zwilling is a knife that is worth consideration by a knife nut.


Jay

Jay, always a breath of fresh air!