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Peco
12-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Ordered a deba from Carter - the batch from 3 days ago - and asked for an upgraded handle. Been mailing back and forth and always got some prompt answers. Their service is top notch. So arrived home after a 12 hour shift and saw there was an e-mail from Carter (Jason). The knife is ready to be sent out and he attached a pic of the result/upgrade. All I can say is: THESE GUYS ROCK!!!

Here's a before pic:
http://s1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/kokkeforum/?action=view&current=Carter_Deba.jpg

And the upgraded version:
http://s1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/kokkeforum/?action=view&current=Carter_deba_upgrade.jpg

jackslimpson
12-09-2011, 06:04 PM
Well you can say, Hot Damn!. That's a great looking knife. I'd love to see a spine shot of that. Great score.

Cheers,

Jack

apicius9
12-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Great score, I haven't seen him offer these in a while. Just sold mine because I ended up not using it, but it is a very nice knife.

Stefan

Peco
12-09-2011, 07:59 PM
Jack, I will take some pics when it arrives.

Stefan, I'm sure it will be as nice as you say ;)

Justin0505
12-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Great news! Congrats on the new knife! Also, this one looks like it has a great rustic hammered finish on it so maybe you wont have to attack it with sandpaper or kick dirt on it :scared4:?
Looking forward to those pics!


+1 to great service by Jason. I have trouble getting a sense of the knives on the site from the 1 picture and basics specs of each. However, every order I've placed, I've just called up and talked to Jason and he does an amazing job of listening to what I'm looking for, picking out some best options and answering questions. If there's something he can't answer or resolve on his own, he always does a great job following up with Murray / putting me in touch with him.
Murray is great to talk to as well, but obviously a very busy guy who's time is best spent making knives. So, I'm happy that Jason is there so I don't have to feel guilty about asking & chatting about knives and wasting the master's time. I think those 2 are a good team.

Andrew H
12-09-2011, 10:51 PM
Looks much better. I'm curious, how much did the upgrade cost?

tk59
12-10-2011, 01:00 AM
...+1 to great service by Jason...+ another 1. Murray's not bad to deal with either.

welshstar
12-10-2011, 01:07 AM
Im still curious

I am totally new and dont mean to sound like an ******* but all of Murrays knives seem to have crappy handles, is it accepted that handles just dont matter ?

Alan

tk59
12-10-2011, 01:34 AM
Im still curious

I am totally new and dont mean to sound like an ******* but all of Murrays knives seem to have crappy handles, is it accepted that handles just dont matter ?

AlanYou don't sound like an *******, lol. The story goes like this: Murray can sell knives with pretty handles and charge a lot more or he can sell knives that perform just as well with utilitarian handles and charge you less. I, for one, like having the option to buy a blade with a temp handle so I can customize as I wish. On the other hand, if my money is committed elsewhere (as it currently is), I can deal with the cheap but workable handle for the time being. I'm not sure what is so confusing to you. The knives cut at least as well as anything else out there depending on what your pet peeves are.

jm2hill
12-10-2011, 01:34 AM
Im still curious

I am totally new and dont mean to sound like an ******* but all of Murrays knives seem to have crappy handles, is it accepted that handles just dont matter ?

Alan

I think most people are just going to say that its good enough, because the blade is great.

The rest of us will just get them rehandled.

Andrew H
12-10-2011, 01:35 AM
http://www.cartercutlery.com/japanese-knives/kitchen-cutlery/high-grade-series
http://www.cartercutlery.com/japanese-knives/kitchen-cutlery/international-pro-series

Pretty good handles, you just pay for them.

Johnny.B.Good
12-10-2011, 01:47 AM
Im still curious

I am totally new and dont mean to sound like an ******* but all of Murrays knives seem to have crappy handles, is it accepted that handles just dont matter ?

Alan

You asked the same question several days ago and received a number of responses. Did you read them? Handles do matter; how much is up to each individual to decide. If you want a Carter and a nice handle is important to you, order a High Grade (HG) or an International Pro (IP). Just be prepared to pay for it. I have a HG and am very happy with the handle. It's all a matter of what you're willing to spend. I think it's commendable that Murray offers affordable (relatively speaking) knives for those willing to sacrifice a fancy handle for a high performance blade.

welshstar
12-10-2011, 02:03 AM
Thanks guys

I think the big difference is that I am strictly a home cook and the beauty of a custom knife to me is more important than how it cuts, i know that is unique to me and i would not impose that philosophy on anyone else but I would take a Marko, Martell, Mike Davis knive over a Murray knife strictly on the basis that the former would cut at a 90%+ level of the Murray knife but be significantly more beautiful. Please dont dont take this as disrepect for Murray knives, its just that they seem to be more functionally designed than visually appealing and that is absolutely important to someone making thousands of cuts a week but not to a more casual user.

Alan

Lefty
12-10-2011, 02:44 AM
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/cf72be1b.jpg
This is a standard option of Murray's. I don't know how this could be viewed as ugly. It sure looks good to me....

welshstar
12-10-2011, 02:53 AM
Not trying to be argumentative but that looks primitive and unfinished, it looks like a pakistani ebay special

Alan

AFKitchenknivesguy
12-10-2011, 03:05 AM
Handle aside, I agree with Alan.

Peco
12-10-2011, 04:35 AM
I think the big difference is that I am strictly a home cook and the beauty of a custom knife to me is more important than how it cuts


W T F ...

Guess you don't need stones but will go with polish instead :dazed:

Peco
12-10-2011, 04:43 AM
Looks much better. I'm curious, how much did the upgrade cost?

A little more than $100

oivind_dahle
12-10-2011, 04:54 AM
A little more than $100

Sorry to say, but I was not impressed. Looks like just another cheap japanese handle.
I love Murray Carters knife, however the cons are F&F, Edge Retention and HANDLE :)
The F&F at his high end knives are ok, but the Edge Retention and his Handles sucks. However his knives are easy to sharpen, so you can live with the edge retention :)

You should talk to one of the forums members that do this as a hobby, you wouldn't have payed much more for a burl with horn ferrule :)

Peco
12-10-2011, 05:00 AM
Sorry to say, but I was not impressed. Looks like just another cheap japanese handle.
I love Murray Carters knife, however the cons are F&F, Edge Retention and HANDLE :)
The F&F at his high end knives are ok, but the Edge Retention and his Handles sucks. However his knives are easy to sharpen, so you can live with the edge retention :)

You should talk to one of the forums members that do this as a hobby, you wouldn't have payed much more for a burl with horn ferrule :)

, I know you are in the world of knifeporn and this don't appeal to you. I have my other knife here - same handle - and to me it's perfect. Good size, nice fit and looks as it should - like a handle without bling bling. It's a chef's knife not a trophy. That said, I'm happy you will get lot's of flashy things comming your way - one day - when all the waiting is over. I got what I wanted and I more than pleased. :D

oivind_dahle
12-10-2011, 05:05 AM
As long as you are happy, Im more than pleased :)

Hope it is a knife you will enjoy, and if not you should know I am one of those who have bought **** loads of knives that I don't use :)
I should sell some soon :)

Peco
12-10-2011, 05:08 AM
:D Christmas sale ...

Pensacola Tiger
12-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Im still curious

I am totally new and dont mean to sound like an ******* but all of Murrays knives seem to have crappy handles, is it accepted that handles just dont matter ?

Alan

We've been down this road before, and not all of Carter's knives have poor handles, just the SFGZ and KU series.

Lefty
12-10-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm with Rick on this one. I think this thread is a bit overdone. I, admittedly, thought the same thing about Carter's handles, until I used one of his knives. I look at them as an opportunity to make an amazing knife look and feel exactly how you want it. Murray does make some very nice handles, but you have to pay extra for them.
I have my "showpiece/bling" knife (Rodrigue, which cuts like a dream), and I have two Carter knives with upgraded handles. With that being said, I'd use Carter's ugliest line over 95% of the knives we discuss here and I could beat up on it and not feel badly. m
Meanwhile, I'd absolutely love how it performs.

To put it into terms that people who want knives that other people 'ooh and ahh' over will understand: people who buy Carter knives understand what it means to have a world class knife.

Justin0505
12-10-2011, 02:39 PM
It's a chef's knife not a trophy.

See, that's where you're wrong. I think that for much of the knife community (including non kitchen knife), trophy's are exactly what knives are. They're achievements in collection. Personally, I think we're a bit spoiled for not having to deal with this much on this forum because most people seem to care about performance and actually using their knives. However, there are obviously a few of them: like those who give home cooks a bad name because top priority is something pretty to hang on the wall and show off at dinner parties and they could care less about "performance." For the sake of their guests I hope they don't take the same approach to their food "hey it take's like dog ****, but it looks fancy.... and being a home cook, that's what I'm most concerned with."

That said, I don't think Oivind is in the catagory of people looking for trophies for a shelf, I think he just wants performance and a very high degree of finished ascetics. He's not a trophy collector, just a geeky perfectionist that's willing to pay for it (as I think many of us are). If he where looking for a girl, I'd assume he'd only consider 22yr old super models with double doctorates, a great personality, and porn star like bedroom behavior to be attractive.

When talking about beauty and Carter's knives, I think that it's important to mention that some beauty comes with understanding on the part of the viewer. This reminds me of when I was learning ceramics from one of the greatest masters that I've ever known:
After we had spent several weeks on the wheel learning to throw a basic, even, thin cylinder on wheel, he showed the class a cup. From a distance it looked twisted and uneven (like most of our mistakes looked). However, upon closer inspection and handling the cup, it was incredibly light, the walls were paper thin and perfectly even in thickness. The cup wasn't lopsided, it was actually thrown in a sort of large, spiral so that it looked like it was spinning even standing still. No only was it an amazing creation, but he could do it in less time than it took us to center our clay.

To me, looking at a Carter is a similar experience. When you understand the hand forging process and how difficult it is to make anything that even resembles a knife, and then you also understand how difficult it is to make a knife with excellent performance (thin but rigid, low drag, but also good release, even distal taper, good geometry, etc) then a Carter starts to look pretty ****ing gorgeous. However, if you've never held one in your hand, I could understand how pictures might not do it justice.

welshstar
12-10-2011, 02:51 PM
[To put it into terms that people who want knives that other people 'ooh and ahh' over will understand: people who buy Carter knives understand what it means to have a world class knife.[/QUOTE]

Lefty/Rick

Looks like there are two camps with a difference in opinion here that will not easily find common ground.

The great thing about this forum is that you dont have to worry about repeating yourself or if you do state something that contradicts an earlier post nobody trolls through the posts and starts an issue about it. This has to be defended vigilently to avoid a forum becoming defensive and negative, so in this light lets all just agree to disagree and not try and have the last word.

Alan

Peco
12-10-2011, 03:04 PM
I get your point. Still, I personally don't see a Carter as bling. I look at it as a high performance knife = just what I need to get the job done! This is also part of why I ordered a "standard" handle without flashy wood, metal etc. - what I call knifeporn. Maybe somebody get a great kick showing off some bling bling. The funny thing is that the beauty if often in the eye of the beholder. Most people will just say - oh it's a knife - because they simply don't care (I'll bet this happens when most of you guys ask your wife what she thinks of your new knife).

I have my fun when a co-worker or wife try out my knife and the jaw drops ... when cutting thru stuff with ease. Their face expression shows it all ... high performance which might not be expected from my "basic" knife.


See, that's where you're wrong. I think that for much of the knife community (including non kitchen knife), trophy's are exactly what knives are. They're achievements in collection. Personally, I think we're a bit spoiled for not having to deal with this much on this forum because most people seem to care about performance and actually using their knives. However, there are obviously a few of them: like those who give home cooks a bad name because top priority is something pretty to hang on the wall and show off at dinner parties and they could care less about "performance." For the sake of their guests I hope they don't take the same approach to their food "hey it take's like dog ****, but it looks fancy.... and being a home cook, that's what I'm most concerned with."

That said, I don't think Oivind is in the catagory of people looking for trophies for a shelf, I think he just wants performance and a very high degree of finished ascetics. He's not a trophy collector, just a geeky perfectionist that's willing to pay for it (as I think many of us are). If he where looking for a girl, I'd assume he'd only consider 22yr old super models with double doctorates, a great personality, and porn star like bedroom behavior to be attractive.

When talking about beauty and Carter's knives, I think that it's important to mention that some beauty comes with understanding on the part of the viewer. This reminds me of when I was learning ceramics from one of the greatest masters that I've ever known:
After we had spent several weeks on the wheel learning to throw a basic, even, thin cylinder on wheel, he showed the class a cup. From a distance it looked twisted and uneven (like most of our mistakes looked). However, upon closer inspection and handling the cup, it was incredibly light, the walls were paper thin and perfectly even in thickness. The cup wasn't lopsided, it was actually thrown in a sort of large, spiral so that it looked like it was spinning even standing still. No only was it an amazing creation, but he could do it in less time than it took us to center our clay.

To me, looking at a Carter is a similar experience. When you understand the hand forging process and how difficult it is to make anything that even resembles a knife, and then you also understand how difficult it is to make a knife with excellent performance (thin but rigid, low drag, but also good release, even distal taper, good geometry, etc) then a Carter starts to look pretty ****ing gorgeous. However, if you've never held one in your hand, I could understand how pictures might not do it justice.

Lefty
12-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Welshstar, I agree with you. No harm done - beauty shows itself in different ways to different people. You should try a Carter, though. I bet you'd love it ;)

welshstar
12-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Of course if you would like to donate one for the greater good I would not say no !!

oivind_dahle
12-10-2011, 07:59 PM
If he where looking for a girl, I'd assume he'd only consider 22yr old super models with double doctorates, a great personality, and porn star like bedroom behavior to be attractive.


The ugly duckling syndrome FTW!!

And yes, no drawer queens for me :)