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RRLOVER
12-11-2011, 07:09 PM
My last knife I ground I copied the grind on my carter HG which has poor food release but falls through food like a light saber.I love the way my carter cuts,the food sticking to the blade does not bother me.So my question is how important is food release to you if the blade cut great like my carter hg??

DwarvenChef
12-11-2011, 07:23 PM
Being a KU addict I have not had much problems with food release.

NO ChoP!
12-11-2011, 07:27 PM
It really depends on the use, which is why we all own twelve or more knives...

If I have a knife that I know sticks, I wont pull it down to slice and dice a pile of onions, that's for sure...

So, your next knife should have a real sexy, curvy grind and taper as a compliment to your light saber. Problem solved!

Rottman
12-11-2011, 07:33 PM
I'd guess the poor food release of the Carter has more to do with the high grade polish than the grind.

RRLOVER
12-11-2011, 07:45 PM
I'd guess the poor food release of the Carter has more to do with the high grade polish than the grind.

I don't think if I took 80 grit to the side of my carter the food would fly off to the right like a highly convexed blade would.

heirkb
12-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Are you talking about all kinds of food? I ask because I generally gauge resistance by how something cuts foods as hard or harder than onions. In terms of softer things, I never feel any resistance with even crappy knives as long as they aren't completely dull, so I don't really count them in. In my very limited experience, I find that any knife that sticks less cuts harder stuff with less resistance as well. Would make sense to me if sticking and resistance were related, since something sticking would cause resistance as one tried to cut, right? I don't know, though. If your Carter cuts potatoes with zero resistance but also really sticks to them, then I'm stumped.

Rottman
12-11-2011, 07:59 PM
I don't think if I took 80 grit to the side of my carter the food would fly off to the right like a highly convexed blade would.

You ought to know....

Marko Tsourkan
12-11-2011, 08:02 PM
I'd guess the poor food release of the Carter has more to do with the high grade polish than the grind.

I have studied the knife Mario is referencing and the poor food release has a lot more to do with how the knife is ground than how it is finished, though polish does generate some sticking, particularly when cutting raw proteins like fish.

Mario's Carter has a very shallow convex that starts high on the blade, with no bevels to separate food efficiently (Carter's hammered finish knives, on the other hand, has bevels and separates food much better, as Salty demonstrated).

This kind of grind (shallow convex, starting high on the blade) makes a great performance knife, as the spine is is generally thin, midsection is fairly thin, and above the edge is very thin, but food release can be an issue when cutting root vegetables like potatoes. I haven't observed much sticking cutting onions, so I think starch in potatos also plays a role.

I suppose, it is a trade-off, but I do like that grind, Mario. :)

RRLOVER
12-11-2011, 08:10 PM
I have studied the knife Mario is referencing and the poor food release has a lot more to do with how the knife is ground than how it is finished, though polish does generate some sticking, particularly when cutting raw proteins like fish.

Mario's Carter has a very shallow convex that starts high on the blade, with no shoulders so to speak, to separate food efficiently (his hammered finish, on the other hand, has shoulders, and separates food much better, as Salty demonstrated).

This kind of grind makes a great performance knife, as the spine is is generally thin, midsection is fairly thin, and above the edge is very thin, but food release can be an issue cutting potatoes. I suppose, it is a trade-off.

I do like that grind, Mario. :)

100% correct.......But my question is what do people prefer.

TDj
12-11-2011, 08:12 PM
regarding stiction, i thought i saw a video a long time ago when kcma posted on the other forums - something to do with speed of cutting and whether or not the item sticks to your blade. as he cut more quickly (i.e. pushcut down and then lifting the knife from the board), stiction wasn't any issue anymore. man - i forget where i saw it, what he was cutting (?potatoes?), or even if i'm accurately recapitulating the point. while blade convexity and finishing most certainly helps, could it be that cutting technique may have more to do with it than we're giving credit? i.e. if you're zooming along with a not-as-convex laser, maybe the speed at which you cut can make up for its lack of convexity. any tech-proficient knife enthusiasts able to show us how it's done?

memorael
12-11-2011, 08:27 PM
The whole food sticking thing is really not that important to me, if something sticks I just continue cutting and the next slice pushes off the current one making a nice little pile. For some its important and I can think of some cases where I want no food sticking, like when cutting something that is for garnish and I basically want it laser cut to perfection. There is always some tradeoff I don't necessarily want a knife to act exactly the same as another one. Just enjoy a knife for what it is.

Cadillac J
12-11-2011, 08:36 PM
100% correct.......But my question is what do people prefer.

I'm sure most people would rather have food release on their blades when given a choice (with all else being equal); however, it really isn't a selling point or deal-breaker for me.

TDj
12-11-2011, 08:45 PM
I'm sure most people would rather have food release on their blades when given a choice (with all else being equal).
wait - do you mean food sticking, or food releasing. i'm a little lost.

Cadillac J
12-11-2011, 08:49 PM
food release = no sticking

tk59
12-11-2011, 08:57 PM
Food release is moderately important to me. My two favorite gyutos have decent and very good food release, respectively. Definitely, resistance to a typical cut is by far the most important factor and convexity has a lot to do with that, as well.

Eamon Burke
12-11-2011, 11:17 PM
Sticking only really bothers me of it affects cutting performance. Cucumbers will stack up on any blade if you cutr 15 pounds of them.

Bryan G.
12-11-2011, 11:21 PM
I think the thinner Carter's have some of the best performance I have used to date (least the one I used). I will take a little food sticking if it means I'd have to sacrifice that performance for a trade off. Potatoes can be annoying and slow down prep time if sticking, but other than that not much bother's me in that department. And I would rather designate one knife for potatoes if I needed to in order to keep the performance of that particular grind which is a laser on everything else if that were the case. I think Memo summed it up pretty well as he tends to do.

JohnnyChance
12-12-2011, 04:31 AM
Technique is certainly a big factor. I think they work hand in hand, a good technique and nice grind can mean a great performing knife with good food release. But even the best technique can only help a bad design so much, just as a good design can only help a poor technique so much.

I would take performance over food release if it came down to it. I guess the question is how much performance do you have to sacrifice to add better food release? If you decrease performance by 5-10%, but the food release is twice as good, it might be a good trade off. Problem is, I think each person would have a different idea of an acceptable trade off.

I say make it perform as best you can. That above all else makes people overlook other deficiencies (Shige reactivity, other's fit and finish, Carter's handles, etc). If you are confident in your performance and feel you can sacrifice some to add improved food release and perhaps make a better all around performer, go for it. As long as you are happy with how it cuts in the end, 99% of your customers will be happy as well.

obtuse
12-12-2011, 04:50 AM
I like food release. Most knives I own don't have a problem with food release. I think it can be an issue that's over blown. On the other hand I don't have any knives that are flat ground.

macmiddlebrooks
12-12-2011, 01:29 PM
This is why I use two knives for prep at work: Am I about to 1/4 or 1/8 a billion potatoes?... Pick up the 210 petty...it's so thin (profile and thickness), that hardly anything sticks. Or julienne peppers?... first the 210 petty to cut the ends off...then the 270 gyuto to julienne. Sure the peppers stick to the 270, but I just give a wrist flick into the cambro. I'm still learning the finer points of the rotation, but having these two sizes really makes the prep soooo much easier.